ICHABOD, THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED - explores the Age of Apostasy, predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, to attack Objective Faithless Justification, Church Growth Clowns, and their ringmasters. The antidote to these poisons is trusting the efficacious Word in the Means of Grace. John 16:8. Isaiah 55:8ff. Romans 10. Most readers are WELS, LCMS, ELS, or ELCA. This blog also covers the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the Left-wing, National Council of Churches denominations.
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Friday, May 27, 2011
Kansas Pastor Has Doubts about Lack of Faith
1) I keep seeing phrases like "logically it follows ... " in the UOJ literature that you print. Now that sounds very Calvinistic. It really sounds to me like they proponents are falling into the reasoning error - whatever God does, has to make sense to me. And I become the judge of what God can and has done.
2) It seems to me that I see the statements something like this, "our sins are forgiven and we have the status of saints in heaven because we have been justified by Christ's death ... " Now there are several things wrong with this statement but I keep coming back to Luther in the Small Catechism on the Lord's supper - "For where there is forgiveness of sins there is also life and salvation." But if I have life and salvation - what else is there? Does that not mean that logically (!) I am in heaven for how can the living be in the place of eternal death (hell)?
3) It seems to be me that you are fighting two different things.
a) the false teachings of UOJ
b) the refusal to admit that God's Word is efficacious,
reflected in Church Growth stuff, but also in Fort Wayne (some profs) statements that God's Word is only active through the Pastor (similar to the Catholic insistence on the captivity of God to the church).
***
GJ - David Scaer, who is featured in a UOJ quotation graphic, seems to fit 3b rather well. The seminary needs to explain how they manage to turn out Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox priests. Men leave Ft. Wayne shallow on Luther but hotter than Georgia asphalt for smells and bells.
Labels:
Buchholz UOJ,
Scaer
Blame It on the Wauwatosa
The Sect of Love
Northwest SD Lutheran has left a new comment on your post "WELS Advice - "Write a Letter" - Will Get Y'all E...":
Legalism and Bravado of Orthodoxy! I had to highlight that. This is one of the reasons why WELS should no longer say they are Lutheran. That statement alone says it right there. It seems as if Patterson and whoever the so called scholar is that wrote the paper have decided that orthodoxy is some sort of sin.To them Orthodoxy is is sin because it is making claims that are Scriptural and doctrinal and not modernistic in theological application. I left the WELS four years ago because of the non doctrinal, hyper emotional, false teaching and stench that was in a place that it should not have been my church. Of course the LCMS is still a cause of worry because nothing for sure is there as some of the rot in the LCMS is still being allowed to teach, preach etc. I have always wanted to be Lutheran and nothing else and these people keep wanting to feed me garbage in my church. To be honest, they are the ones who should be thrown out not those who hold to the Scriptures and Confessions This will be a long time coming if it ever happens and that is partially because of a Scripturally and doctrinally ignorant laity.
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GJ - The attitude you addressed, NW, seems to come directly from Wauwatosa. I published some quotations from their material. I will have to gather some for the doctrinal (as in bad) graphics.
Kudu Don Patterson Demands Joe and Lisa Krohn Repent,
Although He Insists They Were Forgiven Before Birth.
Write a Letter?
Below is Joe Krohn's account of being excommunicated by Holy Word in Austin, Texas.
Notice how similar it is to Rick Techlin being kicked out of his family's congregation, St. Peter in Freedom, Wisconsin (Pastor Tim Glende and his sidekick Ski).
Don Patterson is the VP of his WELS district. He has been called twice to teach at The Sausage Factory. Not long ago he gave a paper (as did Paul Calvin Kelm) about how to improve education at Mequon. Are they not teaching enough Enthusiasm there?
Note that Patterson is famous for gathering a bunch of WELS workers and taking them to the Exponential pan-demon conference in Orlando, Florida. One thing you will never find there - a Lutheran speaker. No, the Lutherans sit in the audience, salivating about how they can employ those same lures, sugar-coating the Gospel while beating the snot out of their flocks.
Patterson is not--and I repeat--not a Church and Change leader, unless that is another GA lie. He has spoken there and he went to the last conference in the Milwaukee area. But he denies being a Changer and I believe that he denies it.
Patterson did hire Cornerstone for fleecing the sheep. Ron Roth, paleo-Shrinker, was head of that business before they buried him. Cornerstone never divulges their conflict of interest. They have their synod rain-makers always recommending that Cornerstone be used, and it is a dual LCMS-WELS "ministry," like Mark and Avoid Jeske's.
Patterson's conference or district had an entire meeting on the joys of UOJ. The papers were sloppy, moronic, and utterly devoid of exegesis.
Remember this, when WELS leaders tell you to write a letter or sit down and speak with them, they are cobras inviting the mouse for a meeting.
Stay with Me For a Moment
I will try to explain how this works. The UOJ-Pietism faction took over slowly after the death of Gausewitz, Hoenecke, and Bading.
The Evangelicals with their mandated cell groups work the same way, very controlling and abusive, legalistic and Antimonian at the same time.
With WELS they try to pretend they are all Gospel, because everyone in the world was justified before birth (first trimester). These UOJers do not comprehend the Gospel, the Means of Grace, or the efficacy of the Word.
In the name of all-Gospel (just like ELCA), they absolve their drunken, adulterous, murderous, and false-teaching WELS fellow pastors. Their Antinomianism sounds like no-law, but they are all-law due to their complete lack of Gospel.
Luther and the Book of Concord agree in dividing the Scriptures into Law and Gospel. Since UOJers teach a gospel-without-faith, they do not trust the Gospel Promises and do not bear the fruits of the Spirit.
Because they do not trust the efficacious Word, they force cell groups on people to produce the spiritual fruits they demand.
Notice Larry Olson's early contribution to the Church Growth journal. The sub-title is "See How It Grows." Did his parish ever grow while he was there? No. Did WELS grow from the CG takeover managed by Mischke, Kelm, Valleskey, Bivens, Roth, Hartman, Hagedorn, and Kovaciny? The synod staff grew faster than kudzu vine on a hot, humid day. The synod expenses grew faster than Mark Jeske's ego. But everything else plummeted.
The last thing any layman wants to do is say, "Look at how I got beat up." That goes against anyone's nature. The publication of two different excommunications tells me that the laity are fed up with the abuse, lying, and false doctrine.
WELS Advice - "Write a Letter" -
Will Get Y'all Excommunicated.
Kudu Don Patterson Kicks Joe and Lisa Krohn
Under the Bus
Friday, May 27, 2011
Holy Word Lutheran Church and WELS has broken Fellowship With Us
Last fall Pastor Patterson again approached me about becoming an Elder for Holy Word. I had mixed emotions about accepting a nomination. So much study about worship and practice had been done and it became clear to me that Christ the Rock and Holy Word to a lesser extent did not have "quia" subscriptions to the Lutheran Confessions and the Book of Concord. From my perspective through these two churches, I wondered if WELS still had one.(Pastors and Teachers swear an oath to uphold them both in light of the Scriptures.) After prayerful considerations and discussions with my wife I accepted.In mid-November I had an orientation lunch with Pastor. I remember him stressing that if I had any hidden agendas that I should reconsider my nomination. Since I thought what I would be bringing the table would be scriptural...how would one construe this as 'hidden'? I also initiated a conversation about justification and brought up Becker's paper regarding Kokomo and my desire to have a meaningful discussion about it. He stressed that he came from the Wauwatosa Theology camp and that we would reciprocate papers; me sending the Becker Paper and him sending me a recent paper by Pastor Rautenberg reviewing an essay by JP Koehler regarding legalism and bravado of orthodoxy. A discussion about justification did not take place prior to election of church officers in December; though I did send a reminder.
After I became an Elder I again tried to initiate a discussion regarding justification. I had a need to know where he stood on Objective Justification. I got my answer the last Sunday of January. You can hear it at approximately 22:22 of this sermon audio (click on the second sermon for January 30th, 2011 & play it from 21:00 - 24:00+ for context):
http://www.holyword.net/site/audiodownloads.asp?sec_id=140005270
There are many flavors of this doctrine of Objective Justification being preached. It is confusing. I took exception that Pastor Patterson was preaching that my sins were forgiven before I was born. What good was my baptism? What good are the Means of Grace? What good is the Ministry of the Keys? How does this work with Old Testament believers...where they forgiven too before they were born?
Discussions ensued until last Saturday (May 21st) when we received this email from the leadership at Holy Word:
Dear Joe and Lisa,
We received your latest email and read through all of your concerns. We honestly disagree on all of your points and conclusions. All of your concerns are about practical matters over which God's people have freedom to disagree without the charge of sin - except for one. Your unbelief in objective justification is doctrinal and is not acceptable. In short, it is the deal breaker. I have talked to you about this in person on two occasions. On one of those Pastor Gurgel and Brad Johnston were also present. Pastor Gurgel has talked to both of you in person on two different occasions and elders have engaged you in emails about the very same subject. We are all convinced that your doctrine is unscriptural or unconfessional. Therefore we cannot be in fellowship with you until you repent of this. Your fellowship at the Lord's Table is therefore suspended until you recant your teachings and your writings regarding objective justification.
In addition, your ways of attacking me and the many recent decisions of our congregation are not appropriate. So, even if you repent of your false doctrine regarding objective justification, we have so much more to talk about regarding your critical spirit.
If you wish to pursue this any further, we will meet with you both. In that meeting, we will have two elders and me present. We will not discuss objective justification as if it is a debatable doctrine. We will not entertain changing our decision regarding the use of Cornerstone, we will not change Jocelyn's title from deaconess to anything else, and we will not change our plans to help lay people teach God's Word to God's people. We are convinced that all of these things are good and right in our fellowship and since you have been heard and we have decided not to follow you - you have to accept them. In short, the debate is over. No more discussion! The mission of making disciples must go on!
Our stance is firm but so is our love for you in Christ. Our highest goal is to see you in heaven some day.
To God be the Glory,
Pastor Patterson and the Board of Elders
Holy Word Lutheran Church
We responded May 22nd:
Dear Leadership of Holy Word,
Thank you for your email.
For those who may be scratching their heads as to why we are discussing all of this, it originated from a message preached by Pastor Patterson the last Sunday in January. I have attached a clip of the comment in context. It occurs at approximately 1:14.
Firstly, you falsely accuse us of unbelief in Objective Justification. (OJ) Nowhere have we denied OJ! We have rejected how Pastor Patterson teaches it along with many in the WELS. It is wrong to preach that one's sins are forgiven before they were born. It is not true for me as a New Testament believer in Christ anymore than it was for Old Testament believers or anyone for that matter. When Pr. Patterson in his email of 4-20-2011 says, “Truly, so much that we proclaim about the work of Christ cannot be said in the exact same words about the OT saints and their faith.” He is teaching a kind of dispensationalism. We sing on Easter ‘I know that my Redeemer Lives just as Job proclaimed in Job 19:25. St. Paul goes to great lengths in the 4th chapter of Romans to show us that the NT believers are the offspring of Abraham just as the OT believers are. The end of the chapter dovetails perfectly into chapter 5 to drive the point home the sinner is justified by grace for Christ’s sake through faith.
NIV Romans 4:22 – 5:2 “22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. 1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.”
And this from The Apology IV, 57
“57] And throughout the prophets and the psalms this worship, this latreiva, is highly praised, although the Law does not teach the gratuitous remission of sins. But the Fathers knew the promise concerning Christ, that God for Christ's sake wished to remit sins. Therefore, since they understood that Christ would be the price for our sins, they knew that our works are not a price for so great a matter [could not pay so great a debt]. Accordingly, they received gratuitous mercy and remission of sins by faith, just as the saints in the New Testament.”
When Pr. Patterson teaches that a person’s sins were forgiven (and therefore absolved and saved as Pr. Buchholz proclaims) without faith is a type of universalism. The passages used to support these teachings are always in the context of faith. Even Pastor Gurgel in his last visit left assured that our confession was Biblical. He acknowledged the way words are used regarding OJ creates confusion; in fact he opined that 'the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction with regard to Kokomo'. I would add too that the teaching of forgiveness is flawed in the clip as well after 1:14. As the Apology quote shows, God has it in His heart to forgive those who are truly repentant. And He gladly does forgive those in faith for the sake of Christ. But there can be no forgiveness if there is no contrition. So to teach forgiveness without repentance does the offender no good any more than teaching absolution without the Law. Ironically, you are asking me for contrition and yet Patterson preaches I am already forgiven.
Secondly, to break fellowship with us would require you to forbid us at the Lord’s Table. But you say you are suspending our participation in Communion pending a recanting of alleged false doctrine. This is a mixing of processes. Please clarify for us if you are releasing/ex-communicating us pending a repentance of sin or are you retaining our membership and suspending Communion pending contrition?
Finally, there are at least two of you that are not convinced that we are unscriptural and/or unconfessional on all counts. Pastor Gurgel visited and genuinely discussed with us regarding our confession and was assured we were not in error. Brad Johnston who admitted in our meeting that ‘it was all over his head’ regarding OJ should have been disqualified.
Regarding your comment about my critical spirit I will take it as a compliment as Martin Luther would have. However I will let the Lord judge whether your inference of the assuredness of our salvation is a sin.
We will await your reply regarding our membership.
In His Grace and Mercy,
Joe
Holy Word replied back to us on May 26th:
Joe and Lisa,
If I understand all of your recent emails correctly, you wish to remain members of Holy Word only if you can convince us of the errors of our ways in regard to my preaching that "we were forgiven by God in Christ before we believed that we are forgiven" and the 8 practical matters you have listed.
Since we do not believe we have erred on any of these issues that you have sited, we cannot acknowledge that we are still in doctrinal agreement with you. Therefore, we should not commune together. In keeping with a consistent practice of the doctrine of fellowship you should mark and avoid us as persistent errorists and we are marking and avoiding you as persistent errorists as well. (Romans 16:17-18). This posture is never pleasant but necessary to protect God's people from divisive teachings.
Jack Parrish and Matt Wordell have agreed to join me in meeting with both of you to offer any clarifications you need regarding our doctrine of fellowship and the issue of your membership at Holy Word and the WELS. We will not meet with you to discuss objective justification or the 8 points you outlined as your plan to change the direction of Holy Word. You have been heard on those issues and we honestly disagree with you.
We are all free next Wednesday night, June 1 at 6:30PM or 7:00 PM, whichever time suits you. We would like to meet at church in the conference room. Are you willing to meet us?
In Him,
Pastor Don Patterson
We responded later in the day:
All,
Since the agenda would already be set; since there would be no discussion allowed and since we do not care to be subjected in such manner as previous meetings, we respectfully decline. There are many people who do not believe as you do about justification. There are many pastors who do not believe nor preach it as you do. Since you refuse discussion and have made your position clear to us, there is nothing more to say.
I pray that this explanation is satisfactory.
By Grace through faith in Christ,
Joe
I will be talking more about the other 7 issues in coming blogs.
Robert Preus in his book "Justification and Rome" talks about the vast arrays of variation on the doctrine of Justification among Lutherans. How have we become so disjointed on this pillar by which the Church stands or falls? The doctrine that our church fathers from the 16th century so eloquently exposed from the heretics of the day? I can only think of one passage that answers this question...Genesis 3:4-5, " 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." - KJV
To preach a forgiveness of sins apart from faith is a type of universalism that some Reformed preachers are already preaching. WELS has been wistfully gazing towards the Reformed for some time now on 'how to do church'.
A Young Luke Skywalker Meets His Yoda.
Larry Olson--"Our Staph Infection"--Meets McGavran
"Donald C. McGavran died at home in Altadena, California, on July 10, 1990. He was 92 years old. Dr. McGavran is widely recognized as the founder of the Church Growth Movement, a movement which has sought to put the social sciences at the service of theology in order to foster the growth of the church. In August of 1989 I borrowed a bicycle and pedaled several miles uphill up from Pasadena to Altadena. I found Dr. McGavran in his front yard with a hose in hand, watering flowers."
Lawrence Otto Olson, D. Min., Fuller Seminary, "See How It Grows: Perspectives on Growth and the Church," EVANGELISM, February, 1991, Professor, Martin Luther College (WELS), p. 1.
Labels:
Church Growth Movement,
L. Olson
WELS Started TELL To Promote
The Church Growth Movement.
Continued under Perish Leadership with Radloff,
David Valleskey's Classmate
"TELL has served the church faithfully for 15 years. Three editors have served; Ronald Roth (1977-84), Paul Kelm (1985-88), and the undersigned since 1989...The lead article in the first issue of TELL was titled 'Church Growth - Worthwhile for WELS.'...The author of this article in April 1988 issue of TELL concludes, 'It's obvious by now that I believe we in WELS can profit greatly from the writings of the church-growth leaders.' ... TELL as a separate publication ends with this issue. Nevertheless, the focus of The Evangelism Life Line will continue for years to come as an integral part of the new Board for Parish Services journal - PARISH LEADERSHIP.
Rev. Robert Hartman TELL (WELS Evangelism) Summer, 1992.
Labels:
Church Growth Movement,
Paul Kelm
Zwingli - Rejecting Grace in the Means of Grace:
Enthusiasm, Divorcing the Holy Spirit from the Word
Labels:
Enthusiasm,
Zwingli
Over 6,400 Posts Have Been Published
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GJ - I was going to mention this at the 6,000th post. The favorite post slot always intrigues me. I have to wonder how the squirrel versus humans post outranks so many recent ones.
People ask for more creature posts and kitteh photos.
The doctrinal graphics are showing up in other places, which is my intention. I may do some for Roman Catholic doctrine, too. Copy and use them - no credit for them is expected. My purpose is to promote sound doctrine and expose false doctrine.
Big Congregations Are Leaving ELCA
George Erdner, ALPB Online
I suspect there are more groups like this:
Faith Lutheran Church (Security), Colorado Springs, CO Status = Left ELCA Joined LCMC Baptized membership = 199
Bethel Lutheran Church, Colorado Springs, CO Status = Left ELCA Joined LCMC Baptized membership = 1051
St Luke’s Lutheran Church, Colorado Springs, CO Status = Left ELCA Joined NALC Baptized membership = 681
Black Forest Lutheran Church, Colorado Springs, CO Status = Left ELCA Joined NALC Baptized membership = 599
Bethany Lutheran Church (Merged into Grace LC), Colorado Springs, CO Status = New ELCA Baptized membership = 233
Grace Lutheran Church (Formerly Our Savior LC), Colorado Springs, CO Status = New ELCA Baptized membership = 260
I'm not sure why the merger of Bethany and Our Savior's is counted here as among those "new" ELCA congregations which have emerged from congregations leaving, and why the new Grace Lutheran has two different numbers of baptized membership when it is now one congregation. These were two struggling congregations which merged in order to stay afloat. If anything it shows the decline of the ELCA in the area.
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GJ - Congregations below 100 have a difficult time keeping their bills paid and they do not contribute much to benevolence (synod staff salaries and deluxe trips, conferences).
Almost all benevolence money comes from the whopper congregations, the ones alienated so deftly by Mark Hanson, Neo-Pietist. He has transformed ELCA.
Some whopper congregations have been divided, so they have had to downsize everything while trying to remain in ELCA.
One new ELCA mission had a Gay Pride Sunday right from the start. Like the dreadful musical "Rent," that may play well in NYC, but not in Peoria.
Radicalism - Even at Augustana College
Hannah's Child, by Stan Hauerwas, reminded me of the strange death of Bill Sampson, who graduated from Augustana about the time we did.
I remember him somewhat. It was an era when a few students suddenly became radical and started ranting at the administration. We had our hippy guy, nicknamed J.C. for his flowing beard and Messianic attitude. Guess who came up with that moniker? Yes, I was verbally active then too. J.C. is on Facebook. He works in a government program and he claims his relationships are "complicated."
Augustana College had experimental worship services in the chapel, so I was tired of clown ministry before clowns began offering as something new in WELS. We used the auditorium. No one thought of building a cathedral so we could worship better.
Bill Sampson went to Harvard Divinity to avoid the war and later graduated from medical school. He got involved with unionizing textile workers, of all things, and died when gunfire erupted during an anti-KKK rally. The entire account is here.
That connected with an interview with LCA historian Nestingen, who said of the current Bishop of ELCA - his father was an activist too.
Pietists think they have to add something to the Gospel, to transform society. Early Pietism often involves banning alcohol and having Sunday laws. Later, when the law-salesmen get tired of Christian doctrine, they switch to a secular agenda.
The Mark Hanson agenda is moving along swiftly, to transform ELCA into a peace-and-justice organization. From his viewpoint, the Gospel demands this. Thus neo-Pietists turn Jesus into Moses, and Moses into the Savior.
Bill Sampson did not deserve to die. The unfortunate string of events now seems inevitable. The fact remains - two trained medical doctors lost their lives in a political confrontation.
An earlier era of the Augustana (Swedish) Synod had a report from the Synod President, where he claimed, "We will fight to the death against the liquor trade."
Hoenecke had a concise description of Pietism, the best I have read - Pietism confuses sanctification with justification and makes the first a requirement of the second.
Kevin Hastings and I were discussing how concise Hoenecke was. For that reason, he is easily memorized and impossible to forget. Those who consider that sentence will soon realize that it explains Pietism and its inevitable downfall.
Demonstrating with Communists and organizing union workers is just a step away from fighting the liquor trade to the death.
Mandating cell groups and controlling them in the parish is another form of adding law to the Gospel.
Hail, Hail, Febronia
One Eponymous Archon (https://me.yahoo.com/oneeponymousarchon) has left a new comment on your post "Luther Rocks Report on Another Effort Toward Women...":
Dear Dr. Jackson,
Since you have shown that the Presidents of the various Districts in the Wisconsin Synod very often act without regard to proper doctrine and practice, and that the President of the Synod is unable or unwilling to curtail them, I have a suggestion for a new and simple name for the WELS - "Febronia."
Justinius Febronia proposed in the 1760s that the various parts of the Catholic Church in Germany were not subject to the decrees of the Pope in Rome, and many Bishops accepted his ideas. This became quite a movement in the Catholic Church all over Europe.
President Schroeder seems much like Clements XIII and XIV who blustered, unsuccessfully, against these ideas. He was pretty much ignored.
The anthem for this new synodical name can be, "Hail, Hail, Febronia, church of the brave and free." (with apologies to "Duck Soup!")
I am but -
One Eponymous Archon
Even More Ancient Monuments Found
bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Luther's Diamond:Unbelief a Sin, The Foundational...":
More archeology to come from Egypt soon. Get a load of this:
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110525/local/press-digest.367042
The Egyptian Gazette says 17 lost pyramids were among the buildings identified in a new satellite survey of Egypt. More than 1,000 tombs and 3,000 ancient settlements were also revealed by looking at infra-red images which show up underground buildings. Initial excavations have already confirmed some of the findings including of two suspected pyramid
ELCA Fades to Black in Taylor, Texas
ALPB
All three of the ELCA churches in Taylor, Texas left the ELCA. They are Immanuel Lutheran Church, Prince of Peace Lutheran Church, and St Paul Lutheran Church. All three joined the LCMC. There are also some LC-MS Lutheran churches in Taylor, Texas.
Recently, the ELCA attempted to launch a new ELCA congregation. The pastor assigned showed up for their first worship service. So did two other people.
It looks like Lutherans in Taylor, Texas are content to go to either an LC-MS or LCMC church.
It's no wonder the ELCA is so secretive about their new congregation starts.
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GJ - The missions director probably blamed the man's personality for the lack of attendance.
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