LPC has left a new comment on your post "Worldview Everlasting - Universal Objective Justif...":
Further, we have tackled this passage before. Typical of UOJ to isolate a verse without respect to the context where the passage is found.
First off Rev. Lorfeld, skips v.22 and drops down quickly to v.23. What this verse 22 says is that there is no DISTINCTION on those who BELIEVE in Christ.
The "are justified" harkens back to the people in v.22. The "all" in that verse is not a generic "all" but have been qualified - it says unto all and upon all them that believe for there is no difference
We also notice that Rev. Lorfeld left out v.25-26, a very crucial point. As Brett said the Scripture teaches that the object of faith is Christ and Him crucified. This truth is taught by Romans 3:25-26.
Romans 3:25-26 states that Christ has been set forth by God as the propitiation for the sins of the world through faith in His blood. "Blood" here refers to His death which is payment for our sins. This is the object of faith. God justifies those who believe in Christ's death in this way.
LPC
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KJV Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every
way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not
believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but
every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome
when thou art judged.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man ) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. 9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
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GJ - I tried out the UOJ claims, using the New NIV reading, asking a class of non-Lutherans about justification without faith, UOJ. They said, "No, justification by faith is clearly stated anyway."
Here is the NNIV rendition, which Mequon wants so passionately -
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. [NNIV, copyright, Rupert Murdoch, aka Lizard Hands]
As I wrote several times before, the way to test the meaning is to ask what the opposite statement might be. The original wording has one all, but the stoners, Universalists, and UOJists want the second phrase to say all people in the world are justified, contrary to what was clearly taught earlier in the same chapter. Look at all the references to faith and believing in Romans 3.
The contrary question asks - is anyone justified apart from Christ? The answer throughout Romans is - NO!
Everyone has sinned, so all have sinned.
Everyone who is justified is justified in Christ alone.
The only justification is by faith.
The following fact should make the WELSians very frightened - the UOJ rendition so loved by the Sausage Factory and all UOJists is the dogma of the Leftist mainline denominations:
- ELCA
- Presbyterian
- Methodist
- Liberal Baptist
- Episcopalian
- Liberal Roman Catholic
- Disciples of Christ.
UOJ is the great unifier, the backbone of ecumemism, because the double-justification of Halle University degraded into universal salvation (all are justified). And where did this universal salvation come from? Halle University - Schleiermacher, later his heir Karl Barth, the official theologian of Fuller Seminary. And Fuller is THE seminary for all denominations in American, including the Roman Catholics.
