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| "Everyone...has" Illiterates love UOJ. Links to all the ELDONA posts on Ichabod. |
     Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer) Member Username: Brett_meyer Post Number: 92 Registered: 1-2008 |
Franz Linden vehemently states, "The Scriptures are clear, however, that Christ takes away the sin of the world and that He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. They are equally clear that God has justified all who sinned by His grace and that God was, in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself." Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions contend against your statements Franz. Franz, "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world." BOC, "because Christ has been set forth as a Propitiator, so that for His sake, the Father may become reconciled to us. But Christ is not apprehended as a Mediator except by faith" BOC, "Paul on the contrary, teaches that we have access, i.e., reconciliation, through Christ. And to show how this occurs, he adds that we have access by faith." BOC, "faith is that very righteousness by which we are accounted righteous before God, namely, not because it is a work that is in itself worthy, but because it receives the promise by which God has promised that for Christ's sake He wishes to be propitious to those believing in Him." Scripture, "Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" Franz, "They are equally clear that God has justified all who sinned by His grace and that God was, in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself." BOC, "86] But since we receive remission of sins and the Holy Ghost by faith alone, faith alone justifies, because those reconciled are accounted righteous and children of God, not on account of their own purity, but through mercy for Christ's sake, provided only they by faith apprehend this mercy." BOC, "by faith alone we obtain remission of sins, when we comfort our hearts with confidence in the mercy promised for 81] Christ's sake. Likewise Paul, Rom. 5:2, says: By whom also we have access, and adds, by faith. Thus, therefore, we are reconciled to the Father, and receive remission of sins when we are comforted with confidence in the mercy promised for Christ's sake." BOC, "this faith Scripture speaks. And because it receives the remission of sins, and reconciles us to God," Scripture, John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions teach contrary to your doctrine Franz. Matthew 6:15, "But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (also Mark 11:26) Franz, name an unbeliever who has truly forgiven their brother through faith in Christ....Everything not of faith is sin. Proverbs 17:15, "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD" | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 345 Registered: 1-2002 |
Brett, nothing in the Lutheran Confessions denies the scriptural doctrine of Objective Justification. You can read Dr. Ken Schurb's study to show you this: https://archive.org/details/DoesTheLutheranConfess ionsEmphasisOnSubjectiveJustificationMitigate Also, the scripture passages you have quoted do not overthrow what other scripture passages have established concerning Objective Justification. It will not do to allow the Law to have the final say as those who deny the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification do. They have established another judgment throne to have poor sinners go to much in line with Pietism. The Gospel does not judge as the Law does, but the Rydecki-ELDoNA theses would have it do just that with their alternate tribunal. Brethren, perhaps we should refrain from using the abbreviations like UOJ and OJ since they are devices of the heresiarch Jackson to disparage the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification. | ||
| Rev. Guillaume Williams (Revhardheaded) Senior Member Username: Revhardheaded Post Number: 4781 Registered: 10-2004 |
The only thing to do with Methodist Rev. Boisclair is to simply keep putting the clear, pure gospel before them without the subjective aspects. Eventually some of them break down and believe it. Making abbreviations has nothing to do with it. The Rev. Guillaume J. S. Williams, Sr GEAUX SAINTS! GEAUX LSU!!! | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 346 Registered: 1-2002 |
You are right, Brother Guillaume, but you must admit that calling Objective Justification "OJ" is demeaning to it. It is playing into the hands of an enemy of the truth. Funny, calling them Methodists in a way seems to be a bit unfair to the mild-mannered Methodists although C.F.W. Walther referred to Methodists in their doctrine and practice as "verdammten Methodisten." Oh, now Rydecki has laid his hands on the "Actorum Huberorum, posterior pars," and has obliged the world with translating a few pages of it: http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/ There is a mirror posting on "No Glory" Ichabod: http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2013/11/pastor-paul-rydecki-2-corinthians-519.html/ Then, "No Glory" for God has begun expounding and defending the ELDoNA theses. Oh, on further investigation the cult leader of "No Glory for God" has been at it for much longer quaintly illustrating his heresy with cute pictures, something to make libel and slander amusing. | ||
| William H. Holzer (Holzer) Advanced Member Username: Holzer Post Number: 613 Registered: 1-2005 |
Forgotten in all of this is the very nature of God. God is the eternal Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God changes not. All of God’s grace existed in eternity, including the forgiveness of sins for Christ’s sake. God did, does and always will deal with man according to that nature. Why then, do some go to hell, they get what they desire- another god. Which is no God at all. To reject objective justification tramples on the very nature of God Himself. A reason that this controversy in more than just a tempest in a teapot. Pastor Holzer | ||
| Brett Meyer (Brett_meyer) Member Username: Brett_meyer Post Number: 93 Registered: 1-2008 |
Rev. Boisclair, what my brief BOC quotes demonstrate is that the Christian Book of Concord teaches in harmony with Holy Scripture that no one is reconciled with God the Father except through the gracious gift of faith in Christ alone. They show that Christ does not Mediate outside of the Means of Grace working faith (Godly contrition and faith in Christ alone). They show that Christ is not obtained as the propitiation for sin outside of faith in Christ alone. Because no one is reconciled with God the Father outside of faith your entire rationalistic doctrine of objective justification loses it's foundational tenet. All reconciliation, propitiation, mediation and righteousness is in Christ and never apart from Him. The unbelieving world is not in Christ through faith alone and therefore God does not see them in Christ in any way, shape, form or reality that UOJ's rationalism can generate. I disagree. The brief quotes and Scripture passages destroy your chief article of objective justification. | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 347 Registered: 1-2002 |
Pastor Holzer, you are pointing out something important as it relates to the doctrine of Justification. 2 Cor. 5:18 states "all (ta panta) is from God." Justification is ALL God's doing; it is outside of us (extra nos). God does the sending of the Son; God does the reconciling of the world to Himself; God creates the faith to receive the forgiveness. It is God Who arranges His actions in the harmony that is Justification. Those who deny Objective Justification leave the door open for doubt as they make Justification happen IN us, not outside us (extra nos). They do this by myopically centering in on faith. Faith's presence in the human heart as God's monergistic work is the evidence that the gift of Justification is received. There is more to Justification than my saving faith as the Scriptures abundantly show. What is Justification? The Lutheran Confessions identify it as the forgiveness of sins. Forgiveness starts with God's grace. Justification is "righteousness," Christ's righteousness. | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 348 Registered: 1-2002 |
Brett, Brett, you are 100% right in saying that the only way for a damned sinner like me to be saved is through faith. Open your eyes. We do not deny that. There is no rationalism involved here but the clear teaching of God's Word. You have been brainwashed by someone who caricatures the biblical doctrine as heresy when he himself is a purveyor of heresy. It is slander to accuse us of Enthusiasm. Like Luther we confess that God does not deal with us in any other way than with His Word of the Gospel and Sacraments. Let me ask you this: if the Scriptures destroy the doctrine of Objective Justification, WHY HASN'T ELDONA USED THE SCRIPTURES TO DO SO? | ||
| Franz Linden (Franz_mann) Senior Member Username: Franz_mann Post Number: 1783 Registered: 12-2004 |
Here's another thing that deniers of universal objective justification don't take into account - even an eternity of hell does not satisfy God's divine justice. For sinners to suffer eternally means that God will never be satisfied. Only one thing could satisfy divine justice and that is the death of God Himself for the sins of all. Now, if God died for all, as the Scriptures say, then divine justice has been satisfied, which means God Himself is satisfied that the payment has been made. To deny universal objective justification is to deny God as He is. Franz |
