SpenerQuest Debates Working with ELCA Online Business for Fellow Stormtrooper Jay Webber. Pastor Fran Was Embedded Before She Was Ordained

Mike Smith (Smithy) New member Username: Smithy Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2015	Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 1:34 pm:       Rolf, I did peruse the website but I've not read in depth though. I appreciate your answer and you make valid points. M.Div I've read through the catalog, specifically through the M.Div program (pg 25) and it does appear that women are able to take the M.Div program but endorsement and ordination is left up to the student's denomination. Also, taken into consideration, this is a distance-learning institution and seems to teach the specifics of Lutheran theology but allowing the denominations to fill in their peculiar specifics. STM On pg. 37, the STM degree Pr. Weber earned specifically states the student "...strive for advanced understanding of a specialized field...(or)...as a means for professional development" Since Pr. Weber is in Arizona (right?), this school met his needs. I found the Mission Statement rather "vanilla" in that it is described as 'independent' meaning (to me, anyway) it doesn't affiliate with any Synod, conference, or identity outside or including the LCMS, it's just Lutheran theology, Lutheran Confessions, etc. I guess my thought is it's rather benign and not Unionism, per se, if one wanted to take advantage of the opportunity.
Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8693 Registered: 5-2001	Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 1:55 pm:       Mr. Smith, check out the post from Rev. Steven Karp from yesterday afternoon. The ILT celebrates the ordination of women. The M. Div. degree is specifically to qualify one to serve as a pastor. The ILT promotes, advocates, and celebrates the ordination of women. They also put all of their students into the category of accepting the Bible as "the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching." This is a confessional statement. But does this institution actually accept the Bible as "the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching"? Clearly, not! They promote, celebrate, and endorse the ordination of women. And they bind together all their students, including the Rev. David Jay Webber as belonging to that group of people who accept the Bible as "the authoritative source and norm of all their teaching" and "confess the Gospel of Jesus Christ" and hold to other things in common. One doesn't make common religious cause with the heterodox. This is unionism. One may avail himself of services and benefits provided by the heterodox as long as this doesn't entail joining them in making a common (heterodox) confession. If you were to compare what ILT says about its students to what other academic institutions, such as Yale, Notre Dame, and Marquette say about their students, you will find that an orthodox Lutheran may attend these other institutions without being identified with any sort of confession but cannot attend ILT without being identified with a misleading confession of heterodox faux-Lutherans pawning themselves off as a Bible-believing seminary, graduate school, and "faith community" (whatever that is). Pastor Rolf David Preus
Mike Smith (Smithy) New member Username: Smithy Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2015	Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 2:01 pm:       "Pastor Hill has been working with Pastor Baltz in an embedded ministry arrangement while she matriculated at ILT. Embedded ministry allows students to put their theological education to immediate use in a congregational setting, while bringing forward into the classroom questions and concerns that emerge from the congregational ministry." "Congratulations, Fran, on your ordination into the public office of Word and Sacrament! Thank you, Fred, for the wonderful worship service worthy of this glorious occasion!" _________________________________________ Boy, that just sucked all the air out of the room.

What Would Jon-Boy Buchholz say?
Brug has already written - WELS is not ready for women's ordination...yet.

Notes on Facebook Likes

Likes on Facebook are paradoxical. I often like an institution (Institute of Lutheran Theology) or church or pastor because I want to follow the posts.

Some people friend me to spy on what I am doing. No problem. I know that abusive cults -  example, WELS - find it necessary to spy on people to maintain control. One DP pretended to be friendly with me while jumping on my FB friend - "How do you know Greg Jackson?" The truly dumb expose themselves for what they are - by trying to use a public forum as their secret surveillance system.

Didja know Jay Webber's ILT photos are hard to find now on the ILT site - like almost impossible. Multiple shots disappeared like magic. But he was bragging about ILT before. That reminds me of the WELS/LCMS/ELS Fuller graduates who brag to one audience and deny their studies when talking to another audience.

I even get anonymous emails from various cowards asking for my sources. Sure, I am going to write back and say, "Oh, the murder story is from Gaspar Witherstone, Bovine Flats, Missouri."

One pygmy-brain (with a PhD) wrote, "I looked up Bruce Church in all the directories and there is no one by that name on a Lutheran clergy list." Conclusion? Wait for it. Pseudonym - because so many readers are nasty, little, ankle-biting slanderers.

Some Facebook friends are prominent justification-by-faith deniers. My extensive list of friends is not necessarily a catalog of leakers. A good source is unlikely to list me as a friend - and I am not hurt by that omission.

 I use Facebook as a great way to stay in contact with school friends, blog readers, and others.

Some people need this level of advice, based on their surveillance methods.

Most Bugs, Most Debris, Most Flowers

Sassy knows this is true.

When the Nile River flooded each year, in ancient times, the earthworms were ready. A long account shows how their presence let the water  seep into the soil and leave behind tons of organic matter to add to the soil. No earthworm could be harmed in Cleopatra's Egypt, and that country fed Rome for centuries.

Our area was flooded, although Northwest Arkansas escaped most of the damage that others have faced. Johnson Crick was raging one day but ordinary the next day. The waters have move downstate.

Our backyard was completely underwater, with the overflow passing between the homes and going down the driveways into the cul-de-sac, the water draining from there into Scott. I drove through Lake Gideon, the spot that always floods on Scott, then recedes to help me measure soil moisture. The lake overflowed and created a secondary lake in the intersection. And yet it rained.

I found 17 inches of rain in our barrels, which were not under the eaves, but holding down the cardboard for the Wild Garden. When the rain turned to mist the last day, our backyard emerged before the neighbor's. Mrs. Ichabod said, "Naturally, all your organic matter is absorbing it like a sponge."

The organic matter includes all the logs on the ground, the wood and paper and cardboard mulch, the leaves, the earthworms and all soil creatures, plus the micro-organisms that depend on water to grow and thrive.

The Creation Garden absorbs a vast amount of water, and keeps the topsoil, because the soil is expertly tunneled and filled with organic material that grabs and holds water. Has anyone every raked leaves from concrete and found the surface dry? Or pulled dry leaves from the gutter? I rest my case.

A bag of dry leaves - almost weightless. A bag of damp leaves - backbreaker. Judge - "You have proven your case. Move on or face disciple."

Dampness draws bugs, keeping them watered and fed. If you want a bug-free environment, move to Phoenix, where the mosquitoes need water flasks and the clay soil bakes as if in a kiln.

Buggy is good, because that indicates a vitality of life in the soil that holds all the good elements in the root zone. The academic field is agog about diversity and diversity training, but that is selective diversity, which only tolerates its own kind, decidedly to the Left of Mao and Castro.

ELCA, WELS, LCMS, and others are being paid to promote multi-culturalism under the same banner. But they despise European culture and wish to replace Bach with hideous rock bands, a bad choice on many levels.

God's diversity constantly builds while increasing fertility. I coveted my neighbor's leaves, too far away to obtain easily - not to mention the stares and eyeballs rolling upward. Instead, my neighbor's friends tossed bags over the fence, at my request. Spring approaches - I will more then.

The error of bagged fertilizer is that it costs too much, smells horrid, and does very little before passing into the water table. Nitrogenated grass needs more water and more mowing, and therefore more expensive fertilizer. Bah.

God's little creatures are doing something marvelous all year around, though more in the warmer seasons. They are freely exchanging nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, and those trace elements loved by plants. In doing so they leave them available for fungus to reach out and deliver them to the root hairs. Those root hairs represent thousands of miles of chemical recipients. That is why established plants and perennial weeds do so well.

They also balance each other's populations. No yard will ever be all slugs, all earthworms, or all spiders. They prey upon each other - and cover your eyes - even each other. The best pest killers often prey upon each other, the end result being a stronger and healthier population.

This is God's Creation plan, which people cannot appreciate or  duplicate. Man-made organizations work at control and sameness. Everyone must think the same and the bosses must control everything. The biggest bullies win, and the most facile liars are rewarded. Thus the established denominations are tanking faster than Jeb Bush's campaign.

God's Creation is now at work rotting all the mulch and the logs resting on the ground. I sinned when I hauled away too many logs from the back yard. A log on the soil is a paradise for toads, attracting food and providing shade. Birds love to rest on logs to preen and look for movement on the ground. Pounce - another grub is devoured. Now I look for logs and stumps to garnish the Jackson Bird Paradise and to frame gardening areas.

My first lesson in log = toad came when I moved one and the largest toad I ever saw sat there, unmoved, wondering why I adjusted his shelter. I put the log back and vowed to obtain many more.

The annual plants are rotting their roots into the soil, which is also good. I never touched a dandelion herb all summer. Some popped up in the rose gardens to offer a yellow and green decoration, a place for birds to get fluff for their nests, and a powerful taproot to bring up calcium in organic form.

Gardeners - put down those egg shells. Eggshells benefit birds (see link) and earthworms (see this Uncle Jim link) but not the soil directly. As you might guess, feeding the birds and earthworms will eventually help unlock the calcium in egg shells for the soil to use. Dandelions do that all the time by growing and shedding leaves. And dandelions are among the most nutritious herbs you can grow without even trying. And yet you yank those herbs from the ground and jump up and down on egg shells to "feed the soil." Save energy for composting and mulching, please.

So my dandelions - a protected plant in our yard - rotted into the soil or perhaps lived to grow bigger this season. A landscaper taught me years ago to cut junk bushes off at soil level rather than try to pull them. That normally eliminates a woody plant. Low growing weeds get the cardboard, newspaper, and wood mulch treatment. Thus odious weeds become delightful compost on the spot.

I use no toxins in my yard, so Mrs. Ichabod loves the dandelion greens. She has no doubts about eating something with pesticide or herbicide on it, and dandelions are especially good when fresh.

Here are the benefits of my year-around Creation program:

• The work and the management is done for me by God's creatures.
• Topsoil stays in place rather than running down into the street.
• Wind erosion is limited.
• Soil creatures hold a vast amount of moisture to help plants during drought.
• Birds are attracted, and they beautify the yard while preying on pests.
• The chemicals needed by plants are kept in the rootzone instead of being washed into the water table.
• Roses grow splendidly without much work and with very little pest damage. The pest eaters have a happy home where they grow future generations for me.
• Roses even grow under the maple tree, because they get the moisture and food they need.
• Pruning roses mean that I have plenty to share with neighbors, doctors, friends.
• Butterflies and hummingbirds are visiting the garden and will increase as their favorite foods grow and multiply.

Autumn Leaves, by Norma Boeckler

SpenerQuest Gets a Clue about the Institute of Lutheran Theology - ELCA's New Online Busniness. Women's Ordination Advocates Are Confesional Lutherans?

Webber learned so much from ELCA's Dennis Bielfeldt
that he published his paper in that UOJ journal of note,
financed by Marvin Schwan - Logia.

Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 6115 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 12:43 pm:       According to ILT's Alumni webpage: quote: The Institute has graduated four Master of Divinity students, and two Master of Religion students, all of which are employed in their field of study. ILT has also graduated 11 Pastoral Ministry Certificate students, 9 of which are employed in their field of study. On the ILT's Graduate Programs webpage, there is a video of LCMC pastrix, Becky Hand, talking about her experiences at the Institute of Lutheran Theology.
Steven Karp (Steven_karp) New member Username: Steven_karp Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2015	Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 2:42 pm:       The following is from ILT's "News and Events" column. Obviously, ILT supports woman's ordination. Looks like Bielfeldt does as well. From "News and Events": A Glorious Event! November 24, 2015 On November 22, 2015, the congregation of St. Matthew Lutheran Church of Galena, IL, ordained Charlotte Francis Hill into the public office of Word and Sacrament. Pastor Fred Baltz presided at the worship service and Pastor Steve Lien conducted the rite of ordination. The new Rev. Hill was then installed into the office of Assistant Pastor at St. Matthew. This was a particularly joyous day for the Institute of Lutheran Theology. Rev. Hill – her friends call her Fran – began her studies at ILT in the spring semester of 2011. The community of ILT, which enjoyed her presence these last years, gathered around her and shared in the joy of this glorious day. The President of the Institute, the Rev. Dr. Dennis Bielfeldt, was among those who processed at Fran’s ordination. The Dean of Students and Religious Life, the Rev. Timothy J. Swenson and is wife Dale Ann, were also present, with Tim joining Dr. Bielfeldt in the processional. The ILT Ambassador, Tom Sandersfeld and his wife Sheryl, were in attendance, as well as former ILT Board Chair Randy Freund and his wife Stephanie. Pastor Hill has been working with Pastor Baltz in an embedded ministry arrangement while she matriculated at ILT. Embedded ministry allows students to put their theological education to immediate use in a congregational setting, while bringing forward into the classroom questions and concerns that emerge from the congregational ministry. Congratulations, Fran, on your ordination into the public office of Word and Sacrament! Thank you, Fred, for the wonderful worship service worthy of this glorious occasion!
Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8690 Registered: 5-2001	Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 6:15 pm:       I don't know how a confessional Lutheran pastor would want to be associated with this organization in light of this kind of publicity. It was appropriate to withhold judgment about this institution when it first began. Now we can now safely say that ILT is firmly devoted to promoting offensive doctrines and practices. To advocate and celebrate the ordination of women as pastors is shameful. Pastor Rolf David Preus
Paul Jecklin (Paul_jecklin) Member Username: Paul_jecklin Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2015	Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 8:54 pm:       ILT is probably unknown to most of our congregations. However, the influence of Ordain Women Now in the LCMS seems to be increasing - at least in our congregation.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 6117 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 9:48 pm:       "the influence of Ordain Women Now in the LCMS seems to be increasing - at least in our congregation." Have the Ordain Women Now heretics and their supporters been Mt. 18'ed yet?!?
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 6118 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 10:13 pm:       And don't wait for your Circuit Visitor or DP to do something about the problem. They've become as useless as decaffeinated coffee.

***

GJ - Rolf is walking back his earliest comments on the Institute of Lutheran Theology, but he would have been wiser doing a few minutes of Google research on the board and the ELCA businessman and founder - Dennis Bielfeldt.

Rolf has no problem being on both sides of an issue. After the group hug on SpenerQuest, he returned to his second opinion.

Missing from the chief culprits on SpenerQuest is any recognition that they are united with ELCA in their Universalism. ELCA is a bit more honest about identifying universal forgiveness and salvation with "The Gospel."

Meanwhile, Jay Webber provides endless entertainment as he urges the excommunication of justification by faith pastors - WELS and elsewhere - while cavorting with ELCA and promoting this pathetic little online ELCA seminary. His role as Lutherdom's Torquemada is not hilarious - just sad. His ILT two-step is a marvel to watch. How can a humorless heretic be so funny?

Unionism and doctrinal indifference go together, as Reu pointed out in his excellent essay on the topic. One necessarily leads to the other.

WELS, Missouri, and the Little Sect on the Prairie are indifferent about doctrine - except their UOJ dogma - because they are already in complete fellowship with ELCA - and loving it. Jay Webber communes ELCA members and defends his errant practice.

WELS pastors and laity should be concerned that this hot air merchant is an advisor to District President Jon Buchholz.

Pastor's wife: "Honey, Buchholz is here with his right-hand man.
Close your Luther's Sermons and come down here."