Monday, September 19, 2011
Whorely Mother Synod Knows How To Pimp Her Pastors
bored has left a new comment on your post "Investigating the Walther Case as Devil's Advocte ...":
I think it's reasonable to start the process with the Devil's advocacy. Put Walther's faithful on the defensive.
I hope this isn't too much off topic, but I'm beginning to think the problem with Walther and his academic grandchildren is that they weren't/aren't worker priests. In Bible class our pastor made an aside about how if church-giving followed its current trend much longer, the Lutheran Church would have to rely on *gasp* worker priests. I raised by hand and asked: Which is worse for the ministry of the Word: Clergy who have to make a few tents, or clergy who are slaves to their synod of because they owe $250k worth of student loans? I continued, "I'd rather have a pastor who does a little tent-making--we want clergy who are beholden to nothing but the Word."
Well, even though I said it in an amiable way, I might as well have suggested we roast a baby for the next church potluck. The reaction from the pastor and many of the members was stunning. (something akin to pious horror)
But isn't that the problem with the whole tamale? Pastors make pastoring a profession. If the pastor doesn't break synod protocol, doesn't speak out of turn, doesn't bite the hand that feeds him, he realizes job security, salary, a cover-up of his sins, and a defense or even canonization of his dubious theology...and a cake when he retires. (I wonder if Walther got a cake.) On top of that, pastors don't only make pastoring a profession, but a divinely protected one. Notice how pastors never get a "divine" call to a smaller, poorer congregation? Divine, my eye! What would we get if garbage men were able to convince us that their vocation was a divine calling? Corrupt garbage men, that's what. The W/ELS LCMS system of the "Divine Call" is a farce.
I think Pastors oughta be required to work off-the-farm, so to speak. If a man can provide for himself in a real economy he sure as heck ain't going to be kowtowing to a synod, or at least, he has a better chance having a sole allegiance to the Word. Yeah, this would mean a reorganization of the church, but why shouldn't Congregation members be relied on to visit the sick, elderly, incarcerated, etc.? Why shouldn't the church appoint Deacons and Elders to fill certain needs of the church previously met by the Pastor? It's just Lutheran-High-Church garbage to suggest that only a Pastor can administer the sacraments---the mature wise Christian men of a congregation can certainly minister to those unable to make it to Divine Worship.
If you've got a sugar-daddy like the synod or a fabricated divine-call system, (or a sugar daddy like the Government or a Union, for that matter) you walk in moral hazard. We shouldn't be surprised at the corruption. We don't really have a system designed to help Pastors succeed, we have system that almost guarantees their failure.
***
GJ - The synods pimp themselves for Thrivent loot and enormous gifts from adulterous donors. The synods are broke but their executives raise prize cattle.
These over-paid pastors will not call in the sick, shut-in, the grieving or the spiritually alienated. Membership is diving for a reason. Why pay a substantial sum of money each year to be neglected, then kicked in the ribs and kicked out for asking relevant questions.
Write a letter - excommunication follows.
Try unsuccessfully to meet with a pastor or DP - excommunication follows.
Sleep with the members, embezzle money, teach false doctrine - await the predestinated promotion. Divine call or holy blackmail?
Labels:
ELCA; ELS; LCMS; WELS; CLC (sic)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)

12 comments:
Bored, one word:
1 Corinthians 9:14:
"The Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel."
If you want a sub-standard living wage, become a WELS pastor.
http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/
https://connect.wels.net/AOM/hr/Documents%20for%20Church%20Leaders/Compensation/2003_Synod_Compensation_Guidelines.pdf
And: "Notice how pastors never get a 'divine' call to a smaller, poorer congregation?" You must not be WELS.
"Why shouldn't the church appoint Deacons and Elders to fill certain needs of the church previously met by the Pastor?"
Hey, wait a minute, Bored. You are WELS!
Imagine if St. Paul lived today, we'd read in his letters that he was still paying off massive debts from his time at Gamaliel's seminary, both credit card and student loan debts. That would also explain his not being married, his tent making sideline, and his constantly placing himself in grave danger since his death would finally end his onerous credit card and student loan repayment obligations.
Because Paul was never able to make timely payments, the interest, late fees and penalties caused his loan to balloon in size, thereby inflating his repayment terms. However, Paul was glad that he helped Gamaliel and his faculty and staff live high off the hog during his time at seminary, but he was concerned that Gamaliel seminary hardly had any students left, since few were willing to take on such debt, especially after seeing what happened to St. Paul. Thus, seminary recruiters had to travel over land and sea to find even a single convert to train in the ways of CFW Walther (Mat 23:15):
BTW, this comment was inspired in part by this post:
Seminary Tuition Scandal--the ongoing saga:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/09/lcms-seminary-cost-scandal-fabulous.html
ACV: Addressing your first comment: You quote out of context and I think you are arrive at an erroneous theology because of it. That section of Scripture is noting that the Church should not expect a man to be a minister pro-bono. That doesn't automatically mean that he must get ALL of his income from those to whom he ministers. I think pastors would find it easier to be honest students and teachers of the Word if they were part time. Then, no one could threaten them with erasure, so to speak.
Second comment: I missed the humor or sarcasm in your point. Sorry. There are deacons and then there are those who are called deacon. Same goes for Elders. Too often those positions are filled by men with little Scriptural knowledge, little experience, little wisdom.
There is Biblical precedent, as well as historical precedent for Congregation Fathers having an active role in the spiritual direction and nurture of the Congregation to a far greater extent than the W(ELS)horehouse permits.
Dr. Snelling speaks at LCMS latte church in Rochester, NY. On their entire large website, there's only one page that says they belong to the LCMS. The main page just has "Hope Church" and the "Lutheran" drops out.
LifeTree Cafe meets at Hope at 7PM every Monday (who drinks coffee at that late hour?):
http://www.sharethehope.org/1ssDIY/links.php
Lutheran Hear Dr. Snelling from AiG:
http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2011/09/19/hungry-canadians-2/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+KenHam+%28Around+the+World+with+Ken+Ham%29
Bored, re your view of a pastor-less parish being in line with WELS thinking, confer Thomas P. Nass who wrote:
"...the New Testament doesn’t give regulations about church polity and forms of ministry. If a group of Christians had a committee of elders who took turns preaching and conducting services or divided up the public ministry duties in some other way, we couldn’t say necessarily that this arrangement is contrary to God’s Word." - from “The Revised This We Believe of the WELS on the Ministry,” Logia, Vol. X, No. 3 [Holy Trinity 2001].
Shades of Johann Hoefling, if you ask me.
Re full-time support for full-time gospel ministry. Just ask around, you'll find that many pastors do have part-time jobs to make ends meet even with their so-called "full-time" salaries (e-Bay, Fuller Brush, handy man gigs, etc.)
Bored, re your view of a pastor-less parish being in line with WELS thinking, confer Thomas P. Nass who wrote:
"...the New Testament doesn’t give regulations about church polity and forms of ministry. If a group of Christians had a committee of elders who took turns preaching and conducting services or divided up the public ministry duties in some other way, we couldn’t say necessarily that this arrangement is contrary to God’s Word." - from “The Revised This We Believe of the WELS on the Ministry,” Logia, Vol. X, No. 3 [Holy Trinity 2001].
Shades of Johann Hoefling, if you ask me.
Re full-time support for full-time gospel ministry. Just ask around, you'll find that many pastors do have part-time jobs to make ends meet even with their so-called "full-time" salaries (e-Bay, Fuller Brush, handy man gigs, etc.)
AC V, I advise you to refrain from looking for a fire where there is none. What I wrote has absolutely nothing to do with Nass wrote, and it's quite stupid of you to suggest a correlation. For $20 I'll teach you a more crafty and classy way to set up (and knock down) straw-men. $35 for red herrings and genetic fallacies. Standard rate of 50 for all Formal Fallacies.
Bored, let me cut to the chase then. You said, "Why shouldn't the church appoint Deacons and Elders to fill certain needs of the church previously met by the Pastor?"
Why do you want to do away with the Office of Pastor? I know you think most Lutheran pastors are using and abusing their congregations, but I would venture to say many Lutheran pastors are faithfully carrying out their God-given callings.
God has commanded that there be the Office of the Holy Ministry (AC V). That office is filled by a man, whom God said is a gift to the Church (Ephesians 4). Your attitude toward clergy and fantasizing about a clergy-less congregation is just that, a fantasy born of a Hoefling-like definition of AC V being only a divine command to have Word and Sacrament, but not the divine command to have the Office of the Holy Ministry, which is filled by a man.
Bored, I apologize. After re-reading your post, I see that in your scenario the pastor is still in the Office of the Holy Ministry, but because he must earn a liveable wage working a job outside of the church, others in the church must assist him with his Ministry.
I disagree with your premise that it would be better for Christ's Church that His pastors should need to work in the secular world in order to earn a living wage.
I agree with your premise that spiritual, wise men in the congregation can/should assist the pastor in visiting the sick, etc.
No hard feelings AC V. I think Pastors should make a decent wage for the work they do. But, if they possessed economic skills beyond their pastoral skills, the pressure to conform (to a synod's whims, for example) would evaporate. Look at Dr. Jackson. College Professor. Writer. Insurance Guru. Goodness-knows what else. I think he avoided synodical shellacking in part because he has the capability to provide for his family in other ways.
If more pastors had a broader vocational outlook there'd be fewer corrupt and/or enslaved pastors.
An Example of what I consider ideal: In a few years my family will be moving to the country, when we've saved enough to buy a farm. If there are no decent churches nearby I'm going to Call a pastor, provide him with food and housing, and pay him to do a little work around the farm. What he doesn't do in farm work, he will do in study, Leading worship, ministering to the needy, and evangelism, with the intent of building a church. In the process, I will be teaching him the skills he needs to run an organic farm. As the church grows, he will earn income from that. But if ever he chooses to stop being a pastor, he can cash in his farming skills and become a businessman. That way he's not beholden to me, to an organization, to anyone or anything but the Word. This scenario may sound far fetched, but I think it represents a good arrangement.
Bored,
To Dr. Jackson's list of accomplishments I would add one: computer wiz!
Post a Comment