Luther Rocks: Our Exit Interview:
'via Blog this'
Our Exit Interview
When we were at Christ the Rock in Round Rock, TX ('06-'09) another member of the band and I were put in charge more or less. I mean, how can you be boss when you are all volunteers? Really. One of the singers decided to leave the band and pastor matt (he always used lower case and referred to himself as lead pastor...something to do with humility probably since he was always pushing it...and how can you be a lead pastor of no other pastors? Oh...everyone a minister.) wanted us to conduct an exit interview. Funny how the visible church is becoming more and more like the world it is 'trying to transform'; all based on the business model. So the Admin Assistant found the following on the web somewhere and told us to adapt it. I ran across it recently in one of my folders. I don't think we ever used it; it seemed so contrived and quite frankly un-churchlike. I am going to adapt it here. Seems so apropos now.
What would you improve to make the worship experience better?
We would remember our passivity in our salvation and reflect it in the way we worship. We would expect that we would receive the Means of Grace in Word and Sacrament on a weekly basis.
What was the quality of thesupervision shepherding you received?
As long as I was willing to be a 'company man' it was good. When practice/doctrine was questioned, the quality decreased accordingly.
Did anycompany policies or procedures church doctrines or practices (or any other obstacles) make your job faith more difficult?
Oh yes! The doctrine of justification as this church preaches enables what WELS leaders call upside-down evangelism; let's ignore the Law and just preach Gospel. Everyone is forgiven already; they just need to believe it! Unless of course you confront this false teaching and you will receive the brunt of the Law.
Would you considerworking again for this company joining this church/synod in the future?
You are kidding, right?
Would you recommendworking for this company joining this church/synod to your family and friends?
We have family and friends and would exhort them to leave this heterodox organization.
How do you generally feel about thiscompany church/synod?
The way the prodigal son's father probably felt as he watched his son leave home. We were born and baptized in the WELS and it saddens us to see it drift away from Scripture and the Book of Concord.
What did you like most about thiscompany church/synod?
Gathering around the Means of Grace in Word and Sacrament and being a part of worship for 40+ years.
What does your newcompany church offer that this company church doesn't?
An adherence to Scripture and the Confessions not common in today's 'post modern culture'...as if there is something new under the sun. An emphasis on the Means of Grace in Word and Sacrament and a partaking in the forgiveness of sins weekly in the corporate worship which includes Holy Communion; pastor led Bible study ALWAYS.
Can thiscompany church/synod do anything to encourage you to stay?
Only if it can address satisfactorily the points of our email letter dated May 18, 2011; namely: justification, stewardship, pastor's role; women's role; music; Lord's Supper; liturgy; church growth methodology; fellowship with Christ the Rock Church; all in the light of God's Word.
Before After deciding to leave being excommunicated, did you investigate a transfer within the company church/synod?
No. There seems to be a commonality of problems in the WELS that manifested themselves quite evidently at Holy Word and within the Capitol Circuit of the South Central District of the WELS.
Did anyone in thiscompany church/synod discriminate against you, harass you or cause hostile working membership conditions?
Yes. Pastor Patterson and the church leadership would not discuss the doctrine of justification with us. Pastor Patterson's belittling of Joe in front of a church officer and Pastor Gurgel while accusing Joe of misleading his wife, Lisa and harassing her at her work. The District President, Pastor Vilas Glaeske dismissed our case on the grounds we were accepted into another fellowship when in fact it was their excommunication of our fellowship that precipitated our seeking out of another fellowship. Furthermore, when we were alerted to the fact by a member of the church that Holy Word was conducting a smear campaign of the Krohns in a 'bible class'; that Holy Word leaders were telling the laity that we had fallen away from the true faith and angrily so; the members were searched out and taken to task for speaking about it.
Any other comments?
No. Any other pertinent facts regarding our situation can be reviewed on my blog. There was a pretty good discussion about justification going on here, but after the recent comment by Pastor Webber of the ELS who is in fellowship with the WELS, he has dashed all hopes that WELS is an orthodox Christian organization. May the Lord have mercy on us all!!!
Exit Interview Questions
What is your primary reason for leaving?
We didn't leave. We were excommunicated
Did anything triggeryour their decision to leave excommunicate you?
Did anything trigger
Our questioning of their teaching of justification.
What was most satisfying about being a part of theworship team congregation/synod?
What was most satisfying about being a part of the
Gathering around the Means of Grace in Word and Sacrament and participating in the worship service.
What was least satisfying about being a part of theworship teamcongregation/synod?
What was least satisfying about being a part of the
It's drifting away from the Lutheran Confessions and Scripture coupled with the lack of concern on the part of leadership on this fact; basing their position on Christian Freedom i.e. Adiophora; and also their unwillingness to discuss it.
What would you change about theworship team congregation/synod?
What would you change about the
We would exhort them to study the Book of Concord and apply what it teaches; and that if there was an unwillingness to do so, they should drop the name Lutheran altogether and leave the Synod. It would be truthful. We don't know, maybe that is the intent forthcoming already. They have done so with the school. Christ the Rock has ditched 'Lutheran' as well as other church bodies in the WELS.
Did yourjob duties church experience in the WELS turn out to be as you expected?
Did your
No, it did not.
Did you receive enough trainingto do your job effectively in Bible Study?
Did you receive enough training
At times yes. Other times no especially during non-pastor lead Bible class. One laymen taught that the meaning of Ishmael being 'gathered to his people' when he died meant at least to him that Ishmael died a believer. We did not see that in scripture at all. matt doebler consistently pushed non-lutheran authors as good sources for Bible study. The most effective training we did on our own by the consulting of Scripture and Confessional Lutheran pastors.
Did you receive adequate supportto do your job as a laymen?
Did you receive adequate support
As long as we didn't upset the status quo.
Did you receive sufficient feedback about yourperformance between merit reviews holding to pure doctrinal teaching regarding justification?
None at all. There was no discussion.
Did you receive sufficient feedback about your
None at all. There was no discussion.
Did this company help you to fulfill your career goals church/synod point to Christ as the way to salvation?
At times yes. But we wonder if they truly realized the efficacy of the Word. It seemed at least to us at times that how ministries were conducted were more about what 'we did or did not do' than how we preached and taught the Word in truth and purity.
At times yes. But we wonder if they truly realized the efficacy of the Word. It seemed at least to us at times that how ministries were conducted were more about what 'we did or did not do' than how we preached and taught the Word in truth and purity.
Do you have any tips to help us find your replacement suggestions to offer to prospective members?
If you don't care what the Church catholic means nor what the Lutheran Confessions say, this is the church for you; because this church is all about being relevant in an un-relevant way.
If you don't care what the Church catholic means nor what the Lutheran Confessions say, this is the church for you; because this church is all about being relevant in an un-relevant way.
What would you improve to make the worship experience better?
We would remember our passivity in our salvation and reflect it in the way we worship. We would expect that we would receive the Means of Grace in Word and Sacrament on a weekly basis.
What was the quality of the
As long as I was willing to be a 'company man' it was good. When practice/doctrine was questioned, the quality decreased accordingly.
What could your immediate supervisor shepherd do to improve his or her management pastoral style responsibilities?
See himself as less of a corporate officer/pop personality and more as a 'Called Servant of the Word'.
See himself as less of a corporate officer/pop personality and more as a 'Called Servant of the Word'.
Based on your experience with us, what do you think it takes to succeed at this company successfully grow the church?
Preach and teach the Word in truth and purity; nothing more; nothing less. The book of Jonah illustrates this perfectly.
Preach and teach the Word in truth and purity; nothing more; nothing less. The book of Jonah illustrates this perfectly.
Did any
Oh yes! The doctrine of justification as this church preaches enables what WELS leaders call upside-down evangelism; let's ignore the Law and just preach Gospel. Everyone is forgiven already; they just need to believe it! Unless of course you confront this false teaching and you will receive the brunt of the Law.
Would you consider
You are kidding, right?
Would you recommend
We have family and friends and would exhort them to leave this heterodox organization.
How do you generally feel about this
The way the prodigal son's father probably felt as he watched his son leave home. We were born and baptized in the WELS and it saddens us to see it drift away from Scripture and the Book of Concord.
What did you like most about this
Gathering around the Means of Grace in Word and Sacrament and being a part of worship for 40+ years.
What did you like least about this company church/synod?
We believe the rest of the questionnaire will suffice.
We believe the rest of the questionnaire will suffice.
What does your new
An adherence to Scripture and the Confessions not common in today's 'post modern culture'...as if there is something new under the sun. An emphasis on the Means of Grace in Word and Sacrament and a partaking in the forgiveness of sins weekly in the corporate worship which includes Holy Communion; pastor led Bible study ALWAYS.
Can this
Only if it can address satisfactorily the points of our email letter dated May 18, 2011; namely: justification, stewardship, pastor's role; women's role; music; Lord's Supper; liturgy; church growth methodology; fellowship with Christ the Rock Church; all in the light of God's Word.
No. There seems to be a commonality of problems in the WELS that manifested themselves quite evidently at Holy Word and within the Capitol Circuit of the South Central District of the WELS.
Did anyone in this
Yes. Pastor Patterson and the church leadership would not discuss the doctrine of justification with us. Pastor Patterson's belittling of Joe in front of a church officer and Pastor Gurgel while accusing Joe of misleading his wife, Lisa and harassing her at her work. The District President, Pastor Vilas Glaeske dismissed our case on the grounds we were accepted into another fellowship when in fact it was their excommunication of our fellowship that precipitated our seeking out of another fellowship. Furthermore, when we were alerted to the fact by a member of the church that Holy Word was conducting a smear campaign of the Krohns in a 'bible class'; that Holy Word leaders were telling the laity that we had fallen away from the true faith and angrily so; the members were searched out and taken to task for speaking about it.
Any other comments?
No. Any other pertinent facts regarding our situation can be reviewed on my blog. There was a pretty good discussion about justification going on here, but after the recent comment by Pastor Webber of the ELS who is in fellowship with the WELS, he has dashed all hopes that WELS is an orthodox Christian organization. May the Lord have mercy on us all!!!
