Norman Teigen has left a new comment on your post "Preus-Otten-McCain-Barry":
Thank you for re-distributing this link. I think that the report is probably pretty accurate.
I was glad to see that the Preus-ELS connection was mentioned. There is no doubt that the ELS suspension of fellowship with Missouri in 1955 was engineered by the Preus brothers. The Preus brothers were brighter than any of the others in the ELS.
It was painful to my father and my uncle that the Preus brothers did what they did and then went to Missouri. It was opportunism at every turn.
The Jim Adams account of Preus and the ELS should be considered as completely reliable.
Of course, my father and my uncle were supportive of Jack Preus and his internal Missouri battles.
My uncle passed away in 1970. My father and Robert were reasonably close to the end.
Jack rejected my Dad's analysis of Chemnitz. Jack torpedoed the idea that CPH would publish his book. I think that it might be fairly safely put forth that Jack was in the tradition of Missouri receptionism when he passed away.
CPH in recent years would have published my Dad's book (I think that this is true) but we survivors decided to make the book freely available through LOGIA.
Robert Preus, the record will show, was responsive to my father's work on the Chemnitz question. Robert got beyond receptionism.
Robert was described by Bohlmann as a church politician. Who wasn't? I have always felt that the treatment of Robert Preus by the Missouri Synod was one of the saddest things to have occurred in that era.
Now, the Preus family continues to be prolific. Some might suggest that the Preus family gene pool has gone into decline. Old Governor Jake and then Jack and Robert were pretty strong guys.
I don't know the family but some think that the family isn't as bright as it had been in earlier times. These assessments are based on 'Luther Quest' posts.
Thanks again, for this post. I hope that the discussion of who owns the history of the church continues.
Norman Teigen
ELS layman
***
GJ - Receptionism is derived from Enthusiasm. To say, "We do not know when it is the Body and Blood of Christ" is an admission of Biblical apostasy and studied ignorance.
'Tis funny that the UOJ Enthusiasts know exactly when the entire unbelieving world was forgiven, at the death of Christ, or at His resurrection. Come to think of it, they have not figured that out. Continuing my thought, they think they know the Moment of Absolution, but they do not know the Word consecrates.
No wonder Lutherdom has fallen into such disarray.
People howl about how unfair it is that I discuss doctrinal issues out in the open, as if that is harmful. But they have no trouble ruining the careers of people through their covert actions, their shameful behavior, and their words hidden away.
I tried to explain to another high school alumnus that WELS pushed me out of the ministry for telling the truth while the same officials supported an abusive ex-pastor getting back into the ministry. WELS and the ELS worked together on that. But according to Gaylin Schmeling,* it "hurts the face of the church" to keep abusive clergy out of the ministry by addressing the Biblical issues.
That is why no one will hear WELS or the ELS admit that Holy Mother Synod has ever made a mistake, published false doctrine, moved around adulterous pastors, or promoted false teachers to positions of greater authority.
*Sem prez, The Little Schoolhouse on the Prairie, richly endowed by Marvin Schwan, who left his wife and married the wife of one of his subordinates, ending two marriages. There is no absolution more certain than one paved with gold, eh?
11 comments:
It looks like curious WELS folks are taking a notice to the Maier essay. Back in November of 2009 through March 2010, 18 comments were posted on Facebook. The facebook discussion is titled: Do you agre with this approach to justification. One guy defended the essay. The group on this was part of WELS Lutherans on Facebook. It is amazing about the things you can find. I was looking for something else and that crossed my path.
In Christ,
from WELS church lady
Mr. Teigen,
Does the ELS, today subscribe to your father's book regarding The Lord's Supper?
How is one to take seriously what you write when you include such things as: "I don't know the family but some think that the family isn't as bright as it had been in earlier times. These assessments are based on 'Luther Quest' posts. "
You state that you're basing your statement on Luther Quest posts, yet you provide no examples.
Don't you need to have the facts, yourself in the event that you are going to make such an assertion?
Do you understand how one loses credibility when one strays from facts to unsubstantiated comments?
My suggestion is that you read everything with a cautious mind.
Norman Teigen
ELS layman
I forgot to say this in my last post. I, Norman, am living proof positive that the Teigen family gene pool is undergoing diminishment.
Norman Teigen
ELS layman, and sometimes official spokesman for the little Synod
BW and Elna had one more child after me. The Teigen brain drain, I am happy to report, ended with me. The last child in the family is an exceptionally bright woman.
My children are adopted so my ignorance has not been perpetuated.
Norman Teigen
ELS layman
Pastor Jackson, I really believe you have the gift of Discernment
John, Norman Teigen made a statement and gave his source, saying it was the prevailing opinion at LutherQuest. Can a person not state his opinion and the prevailing opinion of a group without people like you responding with trash talk?
With all the happy secular AND church news lately, maybe some poetry for a change of pace.
This poem is currently being used as a tag-line by a famous radio personality for his new novel.
It has a spooky apocalyptic edge to it, if read in a certain way.
NOTE: I am NOT advocating millenialism.
Warning, if you are easily freaked out or don't want to lose any sleep, you may want to skip this.
Sweet dreams, kids....
Grumps
THE GODS OF THE COPYBOOK HEADINGS
BY RUDYARD KIPLING
As I pass through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.
We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.
We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place;
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.
With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “Stick to the Devil you know.“
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “The Wages of Sin is Death.”
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four—
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man—
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began:—
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will bum,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
"bruce-church said...
John, Norman Teigen made a statement and gave his source, saying it was the prevailing opinion at LutherQuest. Can a person not state his opinion and the prevailing opinion of a group without people like you responding with trash talk?
June 10, 2010 1:26 PM"
Exactly what is the "prevailing opinion" of those on Luther Quest, regarding the statement of Mr. Teigen that "the family isn't as bright as it had been in earlier times."?
Mustn't opinion be based on fact that can be articulated?
Isn't opinion not based on articulated fact anything other than gossip?
You stated that I am trash talking. On exactly what facts do you base that statement?
There is an old saying that opinions are like a certain body part, and that everyone has one.
I respect, and will discuss opinion with anyone who will first articulate the facts of his opinion in order that I may respond.
John
John, The "facts" are all out there for people to see on the Web, and if you buy relatively recent Preus writings and books from CPH and the Ft. Wayne bookstore. There was no need for Norm to adduce additional facts since the facts are easily inferred.
Mr. Teigen wrote a factual post regarding the ELS parting ways with the LCMS and leaving the Synodical Conference in 1955. I know that to be a fact from previous readings of mine regarding the period.
He, then went on to comment that some think that the family isn't as bright as it once was.
He did not state that as opinion in a post that began as factual. He alluded to Luther Quest. Wonderful, but I don't have to delve into the tons of posts to figure out where he got that.
When one posts publicly something that he wants another to trust, it becomes incumbent on the poster to let another know exactly where his material comes from. If one is not willing to do that, it doesn't fall on another to attempt to locate the poster's sources.
Further, where in Mr. Teigen's post or my comments is there any reference to finding out about Preus writings?
I'm leaving for church, right now. My pastor will refer to Scripture in his sermon. When he does, he will refer to chapter and verse, in order that one might look it up.
I will finish this later.
Post a Comment