The WELS Conference of District Presidents has already discussed the Church and Change shindig with Baptist Ed Stetzer as the main speaker.
Now the Church and Change supporters are screaming that it is a violation of the 8th Commandment to say there is a conference with Ed Stetzer. Maybe it was canceled. Oh sure - that is why the COP discussed the conference as a future reality.
Church and Change is a bit too coy for me. Too clever by half, as they say.
They are lying by not announcing Stetzer on the website. Stetzer is telling the truth by bragging about his WELS gig, which specifically says WELS Church and Change. Funny, his link is back to the main WELS.net site, so perhaps he or they want to imply official approval.
Ichabodians may recall that when I quoted Kelm's endorsement of a Kent Hunter conference, Frosty Bivens (The Sausage Factory) immediately rose to accuse me of violating the 8th Commandment. I produced the actual copy, ipsissima verba from Paul Kelm, and Frosty said, "How do we know he gave permission...? etc. etc." Later I asked The Church Doctor himself. Hunter said he asked for a written endorsement from Kelm and got it. So the only violator was Frosty Bivens himself, falsely accusing me to defend his Church Growth buddy Paul Kelm. I later learned that Bivens was another student of Fuller Seminary, like Larry Olson, David Valleskey, James Huebner, Reuel Schulz, Wally Oelhaven, Fred Adrian, and many others. Yet Bivens denied he ever went there, just as Valleskey did. So both of them falsely accused me of lying about them when I spoke the truth.
Anyone who expects common decency from the Church and Change bunch is delusional. They have deceived their way into power and they are not going to change their habits now.
As anyone can see, Church and Change deceived the leadership about the Kelm call and the Stetzer conference. Their added deception is to suggest there is no Stetzer conference.
I am thoroughly enjoying this because plenty of people are leaking information to me.
Posts from Church and Change Obi-Wans, robots, and Useful Idiots (with money) are always welcome here.
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From Bailing Water:
John said...
I want to ask how an anonymous commenter can scream 8th commandment at me.
How did I break the 8th commandment? All I did was post that Ed Stetzer was speaking at the next C & C conference. I also mentioned that several WELS pastors sat at his feet back in April. How is this breaking the 8th commandment? You drew the conclusions.
Now you tell me. Is it a sin for Stetzer to present at the C&C conference (as long as he doesn't lead a prayer?) Does one principle over-ride another?
October 20, 2008 5:52 PM
Anonymous said...
My question is: Why would WELS members (clergy & laity) WANT to have Ed Stetzer as a keynote speaker?
Another question I have is: Why do the congregations that choose to not use Lutheran in their names WANT to be part of WELS?
October 20, 2008 6:10 PM
Tim Niedfeldt [Felt Needs] said...
No it is not a sin for Stetzer to present(not even if he says a prayer..just if the attendees participate in it).
No it is not a sin to point it out if you don't like it.
No there is no 8th commandment thing being broken in this instance.
and finally although I appreciate knowing someone is out there who might support something i say, I will not go so far as to say that there is 8th commandment breaking going on (and its fair to say I've taken a word or two of criticism). Sometimes there are strong words, fervent words, sarcastic words..all said out of zeal and maybe frustration at times. I think this is all in the realm of acceptability in a public forum. Now I can name a few places on the internet where the 8th commandment hardly exists.
I think that whole 8th commandment thing is thrown around too much...as if disagreement or presentaion of a topic is putting someone else down. Its the same as those who throw out the "I'm offended" trump card in church meetings..honestly have we truly forgotten how to be men?
maybe if we as a society had not created a few generations of sissys (my generation being one of the worst) we could talk, debate, argue, criticize, and chastise freely without crying 8th commandment foul
If you can't stand the CPU heat get out of the blogosphere.
Tim
