Sunday, November 9, 2008
WELS seeking advice from Ed Stetzer
From Bailing Water:
It looks like the scientific results are in: The number 1 issue facing the WELS is the Church and Change group. This is the group that recently sent a group of rogue pastors down to the church planting conference in Orlando, FL. At this conference these pastors sat at the feet of Baptist Pastor Ed Stetzer.
http://www.exponentialconference.org/
http://www.churchandchange.org/
It wasn't much later that the C&Cers contracted Stetzer to present at the 2009 fall conference.
http://blogs.lifeway.com/blog/edstetzer/2008/08/little-love-for-the-lutherans.html
I guess we can all recognize why the C&C group is the synod's number 1 issue (according to the readers of BW)
Anonymous said...
All I ever hear from your side of the argument is complaining about what C & C is trying to do. When are you guys going to offer up a solution other than the status quo?
November 10, 2008 9:33 AM
Anonymous said...
"When are you guys going to offer up a solution other than the status quo?"
A solution for what? What problem needs solving?
I don't want to put words into your mouth, but it seems to me that the C&C crowd think the problem is that the Word of God just doesn't seem to be all that effective.
If that's the problem, then the solution is simple.
Repent for your lack of faith in God's promises and then start making use of God's Word again instead of methods developed in heterodox churches.
November 10, 2008 11:01 AM
RandomDan said...
When will C&C even attempt to come up with a solution that is faithful to the Confessions, Scripture, has some connection to the history of the Church, etc. rather than stealing bad ideas from babtists?
November 10, 2008 11:43 AM
Anonymous said...
I know what we can do. We can experiment with the Means of Grace. Just for a little while. We could use the liturgy, real sermons, the actual creeds, Lutheran hymns. If that doesn't work, we can go back to gimmicks, rock bands, coaching, Reformed rants on becoming a success, children's songs, lights, smoke, and gettin' all pumped up.
I love the Stetzer link for his eye-poke against the Lutherans. It reads: "little-love-for-the-Lutherans." That sums it up. O what a difference the article "a" makes!
November 10, 2008 11:44 AM
rlschultz said...
The solution is already there - return to the Lutheran Confessions. Give the mad purpose-driven, Babtist enthusiasts within the WELS the Left foot of fellowship unless they repent
November 10, 2008 12:00 PM
Anonymous said...
"RandomDan said...
When will C&C even attempt to come up with a solution that is faithful to the Confessions, Scripture, has some connection to the history of the Church, etc. rather than stealing bad ideas from babtists?"
Well there you have it. Legalism at its best. Since when do we need anything other than the Scriptures to have a church? I can't believe you actually said faithful to the Confessions BEFORE the Bible. You act like the Bible should have the Book of Concord after Revelation.
November 10, 2008 12:28 PM
Anonymous said...
"Anonymous said...
"When are you guys going to offer up a solution other than the status quo?"
A solution for what? What problem needs solving?
I don't want to put words into your mouth, but it seems to me that the C&C crowd think the problem is that the Word of God just doesn't seem to be all that effective.
If that's the problem, then the solution is simple.
Repent for your lack of faith in God's promises and then start making use of God's Word again instead of methods developed in heterodox churches."
That's the best you can do? Put a lie in my mouth? And a condescending judgement? What will the WELS do to stem the hemmorage of souls? Whether you want to admit it or not, we do have a method and it is NOT WORKING. Just like the title of this blog, how ironic. Why would you bail water instead of plug the hole? You can't even see the problem.
November 10, 2008 12:42 PM
Anonymous said...
"What will the WELS do to stem the hemmorage of souls?"
Well, Jesus once said, "At that time many will turn away from the faith." Don't you take Jesus at his Word? Jesus promised that the Church would "hemmorage" souls. If the Gospel is being proclaimed and people continue to fall away, then it is an opportunity for us to remember that we are living in the end times. It is NOT an opportunity for us to lose faith in the Gospel or look elsewhere for a solution.
Your assumption is that the Church must grow numerically at all times and in all places. Thus, when it doesn't seem to be growing, you think there must be a problem. But the problem is your assumption that the Church must grow numerically. As Jesus said above, that isn't the case. As we get nearer and nearer to the end of time, the church will shrink numerically, not grow numerically. Why are you trying to fight against the promise of God?
"Whether you want to admit it or not, we do have a method and it is NOT WORKING."
So you're admitting that you believe that the Confessional Lutheran method of preaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments is not working? If that's the case, read Isaiah 55 and think again.
November 10, 2008 1:12 PM
Anonymous said...
What will the WELS do to stem the hemmorage of souls? Whether you want to admit it or not, we do have a method and it is NOT WORKING.
Good grief... if it's NOT working for you- get out. Why is it YOUR responsibility to change MY church that is working well for me and thousands of people before me? There are other churches that have what you are trying to change MY church into. They are called baptist, methodist, penecostals, assembly of God, discipes of christ, etc... pick one of them and move on if you are not happy with the results you are getting at MY church. Good bye!
November 10, 2008 3:49 PM
