New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustian

This is Mark Paustian, currently teaching up at MLC. I applied to join the Church & Change forum merely because I learned that some materials I had put out many years ago, a long list of sermons series I had preached as an outreach exploratory missionary, were posted somewhere on the website.
(That's a whole 'nother story; in my freedom, I've changed my views on sermon series and am no longer completely comfortable being seen as an advocate of that homiletical method. I digress.)

Anyway, I confess to being one who has watched "Church & Change" with a little skepticism and concern. There's no need to react to that statement, since I'll admit it's largely based on perception. In fact, I teach communications at MLC (also Hebrew) and I both know the destructive power of
perception and am an energetic proponent of ethical dialogue. So, I say from the heart, more power to you!


My whole point is that, from what I've learned so far about Leonard Sweet, the people involved in "church and change" may be shooting themselves in the foot, unnecessarily polarizing the people of the WELS. That would sadden me. I can only think there are many, many people who are like me, hoping to hear good things come out of "church and change" to dispel our skepticism, chiefly by providing new models of energetic Lutheranism that manage to penetrate this pathetically lost culture. I was in church planting and home mission work for over 12 years, and I do understand the pain and passion
that clearly makes the people in "church and change," and all of you, tick.

I fear Leonard Sweet will become the issue. To put it crassly, he's a PR nightmare:-)

[GJ - And not a doctrinal nightmare? How Church and Changish to say that.]

He threatens to be the thing people will point to as telling evidence of what "church and change" is all about, how well rooted and grounded this rising organization is in appropriate theological exploration and expression, even how Lutheran you really want to be. And I'm afraid people will falsely read the minds and hearts of the organizers, as if they only turn to a man of Sweet's theology after concluding the answers they need most are not contained in their own,as if mining the depths of God's heart in his Word has plainly not worked.so we turn with eager ears to a brilliant unregenerate mind. I'm not saying that's a fair assessment. I'm positive it's NOT a fair assessment. And I'm not saying Sweet's talk won't be fascinating, or even helpful to gospel ministry in some way the speaker himself doesn't have the heart to intend. (At the same time, if you've ever been broken, truly broken, the only indispensable word was absolution.and to listen too long to a speaker who doesn't know of such things finally does little but break your heart. I know how pious and simplistic that sounds.) Anyway, what I am saying is that Sweet will polarize, damage the credibility of your movement and create needless controversy. I have a hard time believing this speaker is worth it, from what little I know about him. I could be wrong. Someone in our camp is obviously impressed with him for reasons I'm just not privy to. That's an honest confession of ignorance, not a thinly veiled jab.

So much of your dialogue in this chat room heartens me and causes me to reconsider my poorly substantiated concerns about "church and change." In the deepest place, we are the same in Christ, and we all want essentially the same thing for our dear, dear WELS, though our visions may differ greatly. Having Sweet as a keynote speaker (please tell me I'm wrong about that) tugs hard in the opposite direction. (By the way, I was captivated and edified by a speech by Edward Veiths, author of "Loving God With All Your Mind" at a WELS college symposium not too long ago. He's not WELS, but he is a brilliant, regenerate, theologically conservative, Christ-centered thinker who has much to say about communicating Christ even in a secular postmodern academic setting. I'd endorse him for a setting like the one we have in mind in a heartbeat. I'm not framing this in terms of fellowship.)

Now, what if we were looking for a keynote speaker and asked, "Who in our midst do we think has the very strongest grasp of the intended meaning of God's own Word to the WELS by virtue of their scholarship in the original languages of Scripture?" What if we said, "Isn't that who we want to set the tone for our event.someone who can speak to us from the very heart and mind of God!?" And what if we let come to mind the names of, for example, my colleagues at MLC, scholars like Joel Frederick (Greek) and Tom Nass (Hebrew).now that would be change.

Sorry this was so long. If it turns out I've only managed to offend, this will be the last you'll ever hear from me, I promise.

Mark Paustian

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For what it's worth,
Vicar John Stelljes [Pilgrimage to Exponential and Brother Stetzer]


The theme of this year's Church and Change conference is "Changeless Gospel, Changing World". It's being held Wed - Fri, Nov. 9 - 11 in Madison, WI. Sixteen workshops will offer insights on WELS innovative ministries that are proclaiming the changeless Gospel in a changing world...from Professor Mark Paustian's narrative witnessing to Pastor Jeff Gunn's very blessed mission start to Campus Pastor Tom Trapp's interview with atheists and agnostics and much, much more! Dr. Leonard Sweet, an outstanding presenter, will speak on our changing culture. This will give us information which will help us design Gospel ministries to reach our changing world. Phil Boileau is composing an original theme song for the conference. In addition, we plan to have a room full of vendors and sources of materials we hope you will find useful in your ministry. On top of that, we plan to have two evenings of Christian entertainment by WELS artists, including comedy. There will be a lot of Christian music throughout. Here is the next workshop and presenter:

God's goal for me is maturity - "attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:13) presented by Pastor Randy Hunter. The gospel builds maturity; love demonstrates maturity. Jesus gave us a new commandment: love one another. Love demonstrates discipleship and maturity. But what happens when people of the Christian community don't even know each other much less those outside the church? Loving one another, demonstrating maturity, gets harder. This workshop will lead participants to better understand maturity, identify obstacles to Jesus' new command, determine causes of the obstacles in your church and your life, and search for solutions.


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Prepared to Answer:
Telling the Greatest Story Ever Told

by Mark A. Paustian

Are you afraid to be asked about your Christian beliefs because you don't feel prepared? This set consists of Prepared to Answer (221 pages, 12N2021) and More Prepared to Answer (254 pages, 12N2022). These two books provide a helpful model for sharing the Christian faith by supplying Scripture-based responses to common objections to Christianity. Author Mark Paustian provides a unique approach to answer the questions people have. Since every situation suggests a story, he uses divinely inspired narratives (well-loved gospel stories) to "plant a seed." The power in the words and deeds of Christ show us the evil in ourselves, smash our complacency, and reveal our desperate need for his grace.

Some topics in these books include abortion, why bad things happen, Jesus as myth, feminism, and religion as viewed by science. You can order these books separately or as a set. For specific information about each book, see the product descriptions for the individual titles. Paper cover.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

I would assume that you have never heard Mark Paustian speak in person, or bothered to read either of the "Prepared to Answer" books. If you had, you would know far better than your accusations reveal.

Mark Paustian is not challenging the efficacy of the Word. He is not suggesting that the Word and Sacraments are not the means of grace. He is suggesting that different people need a different approach ("different strokes for different folks", I believe the phrase goes).

Paustian's comments concerning Sweet are right on the money.

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GJ - I have to assume the words reprinted above were not read with discernment or comprehension. There is a cute little dance, both for and against Church and Change, coming from someone who spoke at their conference - a sure sign of approval.

His "right on the money" comments include:

And I'm not saying Sweet's talk won't be fascinating, or even helpful to gospel ministry in some way the speaker himself doesn't have the heart to intend.

How exactly would Sweet the Space Cadet, the New Ager, the Methodist Leftist fascinate and help any Lutheran?

GA works - say one thing and then the opposite. Let the audience pick a version to believe.

Dom Perignon has done the same thing with Church and Change. He has some issues with it, but he gave a Bible study of sorts there, and he attended the 2007 conference. When VP Patterson drops his plans to go hunting and flies up to Milwaukee for a Church and Change conference, his heart is with the Chicaneries.

Another factoid - Paustian started the church near Love's Park that made it pack up and move (or plan to). They out Church Growthed Larry Olson's CG congregation.

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raklatt has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

I have read Paustian’s "Prepared to Answer" and found he asks many more questions than he answers. The style of his book is like the style of his post, as though he is afraid to stir the pot as well as Luther did against Zwingli and Muenzer.

***

GJ - KJV James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

The strange thing is - WELS pastors think their anonymous snarkiness is convincing, when it is just the opposite.


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Someone very experienced in party politics and WELS politics made this comment:

For a professor teaching classes in "communications", Mark Paustian's convoluted litany re: Leonard Sweet and Church and Change, appears to be cognizant dissonance. But there's a name for it in political jargon. It's called "plausible deniability" for when the roof begins to cave in from dissent after the fact.



***

GJ - Veterans call it GA training.



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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

Notice how Prof Paustian is still so tactful with the CG crowd, careful not impugn their motives. However, when it comes to the anti-CG crowd, then he's free to impugn and malign. If he's not full-blown CG, that shows which way he leans.

Paustian also uses the Clinton defense when it comes to Rockford--denying the charges, nitpicking at the factual basis of the case, and impugning the integrity of the witnesses, saying he sinned and is in need of God's mercy. For instance, he says that the mileage between the churches is wrong. That old post he refers to can be found on Ichabod by searching on Mark Paustian. Related posts can be found searching on Larry Olson or "Larry Olsen's old church". A Google Maps search reveals that the distance between Loves Park and New Life is 5.7 miles, whereas the old post says it is 5 miles. That's pretty close, so half the case is holding up to scrutiny quite well.

The distance between New Life and the Belvidere church is 8.8 miles, not the 5 miles as stated in the old post. Whoever wrote that in to Dr. Jackson probably meant the west edge of Belvidere is 5 miles from New Life. What Paustian is not telling the reader is that the WELS church is on the extreme south side of Belvidere, and that involves stop-and-go city traffic for Belvidere residents, whereas getting to New Life involves mostly highway driving on Hwy 20. So the difference between driving to the Belvidere church and driving to New Life is only a matter of a few minutes for many Belvidere residents! That's not enough to discourage anyone from Belvidere with an itch for the CG style, or for a larger church, from attending New Life.

Since everything around Belvidere is mostly corn and soy fields, and most farms are corporate-owned so large farm families are increasingly rare, so the Belvidere church can only draw people from Belvidere itself. It must have EVERY WELS member in Belvidere join it just to stay afloat. Thus, to introduce this easy alternative church option for WELS members in Belvidere jeopardizes the Belvidere church, as well as being detrimental to the Loves Park WELS church. As proof, look at Hope's church sign on their web page. It reminds one of a tombstone!:

http://www.hopebelvidere.org./index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=19

One would think that if there were a territorial conflict with one WELS church, much less two, that would be enough to locate to the south of Rockford where the new church was envisioned to go in the first place! However, if the CG crowd envisioned creating a WELS fast-growing mega-church, like they envisioned but failed to create in Columbus, Ohio, then New Life would be located exactly where it is today, overlapping the areas staked out previously by other WELS churches.

Then Prof Paulstian stakes his case on his reputation and the motives in his heart. However, only God can see into his heart, but we can only look at the deeds and recorded statements. Here is the evidence we can see:

1) He tries to distance himself from the CG crowd, but the fact is the church he left behind in Rockford is decidedly CG, and probably was when he was there. Just look at their websty.

2) No one can find an impolite word written by Paustian about the CG crowd, but only incrimination toward the anti-CG crowd.

3) He admits that he set up New Life in conjunction with the pastor at the too nearby Loves Park church, judiciously not giving his name! Why's that? I'm sure that at the time that pastor was none other than Rev. Larry Olson, who received a D.Min at Fuller Seminary, and is a big WELS CG guru.

4) Then Rev Larry Olson received a call to be the Waldo Werning Professor of Church Growth at Martin Luther College. Sometime later Rev. Paustian followed him to MLC and received a professorship in communications, which class is probably geared toward giving the students the tools they need to run CG-style churches.

5) Etc. (search Ichabod for more).


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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

The real reason Paustian wants to make clear that this was the last time he'd read this blog is not for the sake of Ichabod readers, but because in the CG circles he wants to hang around with, or rub elbows with, reading Christian News and the Ichablog is a BIG taboo--even to respond to critics. Paustian wrote:
"Was I clear enough that I resolve never to access this blog again?"

***

GJ - He solicited Facebook connections, so I friended him. Mark sent a couple of dancing-around semi-hostile emails, and UNFRIENDED me a few minutes later.

The Only WELS Commandment

 

Questions? Read the entire WELS catechism, above.

Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter, Freedom (WELS)

John Ortberg, Willow Creek, Presbyterian

Neighboring St. Mark, Depere (WELS)

was a member of the Willow Creek Association,

but no more - Ichabod effect?

Rap fans - ask someone in detox to help you click on the link.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Freedom from St. Peter, Freedom":

http://www.stpetercares.com/home/2440/2440/docs/Church%20Newsletter%20-%20December%202009.doc?sec_id=2440



St. Peter WELS, Church and School, Freedom, Wisconsin
December, 2009 Newsletter, page 2:

BIBLE CLASSES –
The following Bible classes are being held in various places and are open to anyone that would like to attend. Please call the person listed by the study with any questions.

“If You Want to Walk on Water, You’ve Got to Get Out of the Boat” Bible Study held every other Tuesday

http://www.johnortberg.com/bio.php

At a Glance:

John Ortberg, is passionate about "spiritual formation," which is how people become more like Jesus. His teaching brings Scripture alive and invariably includes practical applications and warm humor. John is the author of many books, including "If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat" and "The Life You've Always Wanted: Spiritual Growth for Ordinary People", and his latest book, "Faith & Doubt". He has also contributed to many other books and periodicals.

Present:

•Pastor, Menlo Park Presbyterian Church Menlo Park, California, 2003 to present

Previous:

•Teaching Pastor, Willow Creek Community Church, South Barrington, Illinois, 1994-2003
•Senior Pastor, Horizons Community Church, Diamond Bar, California, 1990-1994
•Senior Pastor, Simi Valley Community Church, Simi Valley, California, 1985-1990

Ordained:
•Baptist General Conference, 1986
Education:
•BS, Wheaton College in Psychology
•Master of Divinity and Doctor of Philosophy in Clinical Psychology from Fuller Seminary
•Post graduate studies at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland.
•John has served as an adjunct faculty member in homiletics at Fuller where he is also a member of the Board of Trustees.

Personal:

John was born in Rockford, Illinois. His wife Nancy is also a seminary graduate and also served as a teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church. They have been married for over 20 years and have enjoyed watching their own family grow. They are parents of three children, Laura, Mallory and Johnny. They also have a dog and a cat, though they are ambivalent about the cat.

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John Ortberg
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Ortberg, Jr. (born May 5, 1957, Rockford, Illinois) is an evangelical Christian author, speaker, and senior pastor of Menlo Park Presbyterian Church^[1] in Menlo Park, California, an evangelical church with over 4,000 members. Ortberg has published many books including the 2008 ECPA Christian Book Award winner When the Game is Over, It All Goes Back in the Box,^[2] and the 2002 Christianity Today Book Award winner If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat.^[3] Another of his publications, The Life You've Always Wanted, has sold more than 500,000 copies as of 2008.^[4]

Background

Ortberg earned his undergraduate degree from Wheaton College, and his M.Div. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Fuller Theological Seminary. He has also studied at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland. From 1985 to 1990 he served as senior pastor at Simi Valley Community Church, and then from 1990 to 1994 at Horizons Community Church. He then moved from California to Illinois to serve as a teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church until 2003, when he assumed his current role at Menlo Park Presbyterian Church.^[5]

Teachings

A central theme of his teaching and books is spiritual formation, the transforming of human character through authentic experiences with God. Ortberg argues that the desire for comfort and security often stands in the way of an authentic relationship with God — when people place too high a value on being secure and comfortable they may be reluctant to make the sacrifices God asks of them.^[6]
Ortberg has warned against the societal pressures which tell people that bigger is always better, saying "I think for all of us, whatever your ministry or job, bigness will never satisfy the call."^[7] In his books he has described his own desire for importance and success, and how achieving them did not ultimately bring him happines.^[8] "Your cravings," according to Orberg, "if you could get to the bottom of them, are for the eternal."^[9]

Speaking

Ortberg has been a featured speaker at many events, including

• Promise Keepers 2006 Conferences^[10]
• Westmont College (2007 commencement speaker)^[11]
• 2008 Global Leadership Summit^[12]

Bibliography

• Grace: An Invitation to a Way of Life. (Zondervan, September 2000) (with Laurie Pederson and Judson Poling) ISBN 9780310220749
• If You Want To Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat. Zondervan, 2001 ISBN 9780310228639
• Love Beyond Reason. Zondervan, 2001 ISBN 9780310234494
• The Life You've Always Wanted. Zondervan, 2002 ISBN 9780310246954
• Everybody's Normal Till You Get To Know Them. Zondervan, 2003 ISBN 9780310228646
• Living the God Life: Finding God's Extraordinary Love in Your Ordinary Life. Inspirio, 2004, ISBN 9780310801955
• God Is Closer Than You Think: If God is Always with Us, why is He So Hard to Find? Zondervan, 2005 ISBN 9780310253495
• Now What? God's Guide to Life for Graduates: God's Guide to Life for Graduates. Zondervan, 2005 ISBN 9780310802822
• When the Game Is Over, It All Goes Back in the Box. Zondervan, 2007 ISBN 9780310253501

See also

• Menlo Park Presbyterian Church
• Willow Creek Community Church

References

1. ^ "Pastors and Ministers". Menlo Park Presbyterian Church. http://www.mppc.org/about-mppc/leadership-team. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
2. ^ "2008 Christian Book Awards Winners - Christian Life category". http://www.ecpa.org/christianbookawards/cba2008.php. Retrieved 2009-10-20. 
3. ^ "The Dick Staub Interview: John Ortberg's Freak Show". Christianity Today. May 1, 2003. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/mayweb-only/21.0b.html?start=1. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
4. ^ "Gold / Platinum / Diamond Book Awards Winners". http://www.ecpa.org/gold_past.php. Retrieved 2009-10-20. 
5. ^ "JohnOrtberg.com: John's Bio". http://www.johnortberg.com/bio.php. Retrieved 2009-10-20. 
6. ^ Duduit, Michael. "Preaching Through Their Defenses: An Interview with John Ortberg". Preaching. http://www.preaching.com/resources/features/11581043/page4/ortberg/. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
7. ^ "Good Drive, Bad Drive". Ministry Mentor. November, 2005. http://www.ministrymentor.com/archives/details.asp?issue=11/1/2005. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
8. ^ Creel, Colin (2005). Perspectives: A Spiritual Life Guide for Twentysomethings. Relevant Media Group. pp. 137–138. ISBN 9780976035787. 
9. ^ Trueheart, Charles (August, 1996). "Welcome to the Next Church". The Atlantic: pp. 37–58. http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96aug/nxtchrch/nxtchrch.htm. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
10. ^ Lee, Courtney (March 8, 2006). "Promise Keepers Announces Keynote Speaker for 2006 Conferences". Christian Today. http://www.christiantoday.com/article/promise.keepers.announces.keynote.speaker.for.2006.conferences./5586.htm. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
11. ^ Doane, Guillaume (May 3, 2007). "Westmont Graduation to Honor Students, Mark Departure of Outgoing President". Montecito Journal. http://www.montecitojournal.net/archive/13/18/991/. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
12. ^ "GLS Speakers". The Global Leadership Summit India. http://www.glsindia.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=37. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 

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+Diet O. Worms has left a new comment on your post "Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter...":

Congratulations to the Freedom From St. Peter congregation. They must have already successfully and throughly discipled [ahem] all their members and neighbors using all the books of the Bible, the Confessions, and the good commentaries, and so now they have no choice but to use this garbage.

Who pays the DPs?

***

GJ - WELS members pay the DPs through various synod subsidies. Those trips to Milwaukee and Willow Creek are not free.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter...":

Your wrong about church discipline not being applied at St. Peter's and the CORE. All members who complained about the pastors were disciplined, and when applicable, bounced out of church, plus CORE--not sure you can call CORE a church.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter...":

Which of the seven churches of Revelation does CORE remind you of most? I think Pergamum, or maybe
Thyatira:

Pergamum
Rev 02:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality.

Thyatira
Rev 02:20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

ELCA Bishop Explains Why They Are the Best, Most Loving, Most Compassionate

He says the Eighth Commandment has been broken in defense of another commandment. But ELCA violates the First Table all the time.

Notice the manipulative use of photos to guilt people into giving money. ELCA's waste of money would shame Church and Change into doing more subversion and skimming. Really.

Estimate on ELCA Exits - From ALPB Forum

LCA Presiding Bishop Crumley posed with Mrs. Ichabod, many years ago.

ALPB

I would George, but it is plainly ugly, and bishop behavior is not always exemplary. So in our case, there is a delicate walk with, yet not influencing the walk. It is a decision the ELCA congregations have to make on their own. So I am not going to post names and such in a forum like this.

I will say that in the ministries I'm in, it is clear that on average with my samples there are about 3-4 congregations per synod, on the way out right away. There is probably on average 1 large congregation taking a "we are big enough to stay and create meaningful resistance." One note: these large congregations continue to have task forces evaluating an exit. Others are similarly engaged. I am not reporting their names beyond posting news articles or fait acompli, because they are already experiencing enough trial and anguish with the process without speculating here. So you have seen one report in California and one news report link in Colorado from me, no more.

So a, take it for what it is, estimate is 3.5 *65 = 230ish on the way out. 100 large churches readying for protest or exit. at least that many 230+100=330-500 engaged at the council level on assessing the question. Numbers of members? = 90,000 in small churches, 100,000 in large ones = 200,000 in a 1000 congregations with national presence. Some synods like NE Iowa and SC seem to be trying to make a inside protest response, with more or less Bishop support. (in three days many will meet with former Bishop Crumley for worship and conversation) I see at least 1000 separating in one way or another soon. Your mileage may vary, The question is not really on those numbers, but whether such an exodus will create a cascading implosion. If not, I'm sure ELCA will feel quite comfortable with 9000 congregations and 4 Million members, and a slow trickle of bleeding out. If there is an implosion, Lutheranism in America will be in a total restructure, and that would effect me, and probably is something I should know about, even if its "none of my business."

But we apparently won't hear about it officially until 2012? when the official publication gets printed? You know those AF presses still have to have the type set by hand. Grin. By then Missouri will have posted monthly data on the hundreds coming in and going out in her membership, some of those being ex-ELCA congregations that ELCA hasn't reported from their secret data yet Smiley Let's pray for some repentance, rethinking, and more order than that. The implosion is not the best scenario.

***

GJ - I read the necrology to my wife yesterday. We discussed the fact that she knows every single one of those theological leaders. We went to conferences together, with her costs paid by me.

I read these stats to her this morning, and she said, "Where were these people 22 years ago?"

I said, "Someone had to be first. Besides, if we had stayed for the benefits, everyone would be in rehab today. There is a price to be paid."

I wrote an entire book about this, which was published in a special edition of Christian News. The ELS, Missouri, and WELS were too busy snuggling with their new partner in ministry, ELCA, to rock the boat. Too much Thrivent money was going to joint religious projects. As one of the "conservative" WELS DPs explained, "We can't give up that money."

The homosexual vote at the last ELCA convention is the final, last straw for many congregations. The last straw was forcing Lutheran congregations to have an Episcopal bishop present for any confirmations to be valid. The cobbled-together merger was ready to come apart, then, when this latest vote passed to hurrah and rainbow-colored stoles. I hear the parade of activists was especially revolting to some.

If Missouri, WELS, and the ELS want to help, they can expel the Roman Catholic and Fuller influences among them and return to the Book of Concord. Many ELCA members are so poorly trained that they are more like newborn kittens, blind and helpless. The "conservative" Lutheran clergy will need to upgrade their training too, after 30 years of aping Fuller.
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Quote from: Chuck Sampson on Yesterday at 07:21:53 PM

... an article by one Leah Shaeffer which contended that the Virgin Mary was actually raped by a Roman soldier. When our Church Council wrote to Bp. Chilstrom asking him to disavow this blasphemy he wrote back to say "Charles, I cannot be the keeper of a thousand doors."

I think she's currently serving a congregation in Ohio if that helps affirm your decision. I remember her from when we were both in DC. Ironically, I think her doctorate was from Catholic U.

The CORE - Prisoner of Culture

Ski's Caption in Facebook - "The Knux and Me"

The Emerging Church leaders, who are just another version of Church Growth, teach that the church must use pop culture to reach people. Given that wrong assumption, anything goes.

Google "The Knux" for their lyrics, such as "Bang Bang."

Wikipedia on The Knux.

The Knux on My Space.

The Knux official website.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The CORE - Prisoner of Culture":

BANG BANG

When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, nobody knows.
When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, nobody knows.

Takin' it back to 94, when niggas was dealin' the finest soul,
Crack the hit then ****** it up, and baby gangstas was full of they cluck.
Pluck the feathers up off the duck, you stuck like chuck if carried the banter
Pistol player knuckled up, then better to telling the children to scatter
Everyone knows don't **** with them ho's drinking with keisha from out they yo
Full of that clearly pop a silly when niggas first heard the choppers city
And I was a dancin' b-boy who resorted to slinging them heat boys
And jackin' them cars, mackin' them broads, sadistic ****, then flipped the script.
I don't wan' sound like a hypocrite, but momma raised me for greatness,
but we broke as **** and hope is stuck and New Orleans defines the cage hits
The animal house like getting out like takin' food from a animals mouth,
roar roar like the dungeon dragon, takin' it back to the cannibals house

When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, no nobody knows.
When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, no nobody knows.

I'm from a place you couldn't imagine, beautiful women some Creole with ***
Them niggas are hazards, we bitchin' they crabbin', and changin lanes like benjamin massing
From 10 to 12 they thinkin' it's cool, something awful when they aint in the mood.
Don't get 'em bent, **** that innocence, cause in a sense they film as you.
Where they mommas at, where they mommas at? Nobody knows, nobody cares.
To claim your hard, come go through the ward,come **** with them,when nobody dares
Your job, yes, ya ho-jocker, put that pop on you like Redenbacher
The things they say, the slang they use, catching kung fu while they bangin' the tools.

When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know the one? No, nobody knows.
When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know the one? No, nobody knows.

Even when it's cold outside 'round here. It's a 100 degrees, I keep the heat around here.
It's when you least expect it, people creep up from the rear,
it's racking my brain cannot contain my fear.
'Cause even when it's cold outside 'round here. It's a 100 degrees, I keep the heat around here.
It's when you least expect it, people creep up from the rear,
it's racking my brain cannot contain my fear.

Approved by DP Doug Engelbrecht

***

GJ - I starred out the worst words but left in the n-words because that is what they want. Let me know if I missed anything. I went over the words six times. Doubtless a translation to English would reveal more foulness.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The CORE - Prisoner of Culture":

Ski is a disgrace. What is he trying to prove with these pics? That he knows "people"? That he is "cool"? I'm sorry but in my humble opinion Ski is just the village idiot. How or why would he be seen in photos with these people, let alone post them proudly? I highly doubt he took the time to share the Gospel with these folks before or after the photo shoot. I believe most people in seeing these photos would be appalled. So that being said, what can be done about it? Does he also post pictures of himself along with wife and family on his Facebook page? Have synod officials been alerted to this odd behavior of one of their own pastors?

***

GJ - I imagine most of the WELS officials are aware of Ski's Facebook albums. On his main page he has a photo with one of the rap groups. They are all the same to me, so I cannot remember which one it is. He does have some pictures of his wife and family. I know quite a few people on Facebook now. Their main page photos are always:
1. The individual, serious or humorous.
2. A family or a child's picture.
3. A family pet photo.

Posing with Katy Perry on the main page (WELS Pastor Tim Glende) is a exception. So is posing with celebrities du jour (WELS Pastor Ski).

Photo albums on Facebook illustrate what people want to feature. Ski's are almost all music or sports celebrities. He did the same with his Drive blog, which is still active. He posed with Andy Stanley, the Babtist leader of Drive 08.

The question is - who is in charge? The District President, Doug Engelbrecht, has been supporting this. The CORE got going and kept going with his approval.

John Parlow's congregation is no longer listed as a member of the Willow Creek denomination. A lot of Missouri and ELCA churches are. Trapp's Wisconsin Lutheran Chapel once was.

The bigger question is not what the official membership is (and WC does charge big bucks for that) but what the doctrine taught is.

The Anything Goes District of WELS is clearly in the unionistic, Willow Creek-Fuller camp. Fox Valley seems to be the worst area of WELS.

Lil Mike - Rapper WELS Shares with the Roman Catholic Church, Etc

About LIL MIKE | New Mixtape January 2010
Lil Mike was born in Texas, and raised in Clearwater, Florida for 18 years. He now lives in Wisconsin where he attends college. He is a 22 year old Christian rapper/minister who lives to share the Gospel through the use of Hip Hop. The Lord called him to this service in January 2009. Here is a little bit of his story:

"One evening, I was parked in a Walgreens parking lot, waiting for my friend to get off work, while listening to a secular rap CD. Lyrically, the artist used profanities and lies while promoting sex and violence. I knew I should not have been listening to it and, for some reason, I could not stop thinking about how many lives are influenced by this garbage. Sadly, there are many people who base their entire lives on the messages conveyed in secular hip hop. At the thought of this, I felt an overwhelming feeling of guilt come over me, but at the same time I felt very inspired. It was in that moment, the Lord pressed upon my heart to use rap music for His Glory. As of January 2009, I had never written anything lyrically, nor had i ever tried to rap. BUT I have always been a listener to rap music and I know how powerful of an influence hip hop can have. So I let the Lord lead me."

When Lil Mike was 14 years old, he was heavy into drugs and, one day, overdosed on pills and almost lost his life. After that experience, he quit all of the drugs he was doing. As a result, from age 14 to 20, he experienced severe anxiety and depression. He had panic attacks very bad for many years. All he could do was "cling to God, in hope, and pray every day that He would take this away". Lil Mike made a promise to the Lord that if He was to take this anxiety away from him, he would give Christ his life in its entirety. Miraculously, at age 20, the Lord completely took away all of his anxiety. When asked about the healing he experienced, Lil Mike said "It was nothing short of a miracle because my anxiety was crippling and affected every area of my life. So, here I am, living out my promise to the Lord - trying my best to glorify God with Holy Hip Hop."

Upcoming Shows ( view all )

Jan 10 2010 7:30P St. Pius X Confirmation Appleton, Wisconsin
Feb 3 2010 7:00P St. Pius X Youth Group Appleton, Wisconsin
Mar 27 2010 12:00P Wisconsin Catholic Youth Rally Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Dec 31 2010 12:00A Contact Lil Mike To Do A Show ANYWHERE, Wisconsin


http://www.myspace.com/lilmikegohard

Gotocore.com click downloads for the list of church bands.

Here's a YouTube clip of church rappers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O041fu6zYSw&feature=player_embedded#

WELS Pastors Glende and Ski Reach Out To Pop-Tarts Katy Perry and MariQueen

WELS Pastor Tim Glende posed with Katy Perry
and posted this photo on his main Facebook page.
His Facebook pages are now hidden - Ichabod effect.
The former Gospel singer is famous for singing
"Ur So Gay" and "I Kissed a Girl and I'm Glad." 

WELS Pastor Ski posed with MariQueen, who posed for Playboy.
He also posed with Katy Perry, above.
His photos are still wide open on Facebook.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Read a Typical Response to the Glende/Ski Pop-Tart...":

So let me get this straight....because these guys posed for pictures with celebrities that have done things that we may not agree with ( namely SIN...which we are ALL guilty of) that means that they are doing something wrong? How do we know that they weren't ministering to these people as they had the opportunity to meet with them? Did Jesus himself not minister to a prostitute? And what did the Pharisees say and assume about that?.....exactly the same things that all of you supposed Christian people are saying and assuming about these 2 men in the ministry. Instead of breaking the 8th commandment daily on this blog, why don't you go and talk to these guys and find out for yourself how doctrinely (sic) sound they are instead of buying in to a bunch of assumptions and rumors.

***

GJ - Does this remind anyone else of the posts defending the Martin Luther College gay video?

Most men post pictures of their wives, not pin-ups, on the main Facebook page. Glende cannot help it. He grew up in Columbus, in a non-WELS CG parish that listened in awe to Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, Shrinker Extraordinaire.

Pastors have contacted these apostates and talked to them, getting nowhere. Ski is proud of recycling Groeschel and enjoys the support of the Doctrinal Pussycat Engelbrecht. Some did the same with Paul Calvin Kelm, and they got nowhere, too.

Everyone knows that Ski gets his sense of self-esteem from his many celebrity photos. He uses them for pastoral counseling, in fact. "This is me and..." This is a new version of Carl Rogers' Client-Centered Counseling - Ski's Celebrity-Centered Counseling.

Some people, within and without WELS, think these tart poses are a disgrace to the public ministry. These women are not known for joining the Wisconsin Synod after hearing the Gospel. Instead, Glende and Ski are trying to bask in the scrofulous glow of the young ladies' fame. Katy Perry abandoned Gospel singing to garner fame in homosexual-themed songs. How inspirational, to cuddle with her on one's Facebook home page! Look at me - I met Katy Perry.

KJV 2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

KJV 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Of course, drinking buddies are going to lob their Eighth Commandment stink bombs. That used to work, when people could not look up information for themselves. Face it, Shrinkers. I am not pushing information out to WELS - they are sending it through me. They find it on their own and want it shared - pronto.

Calling me names only riles the good citizens of WELS, Missouri, and the ELS. They say to themselves and me, "So this is what we have for spiritual leaders? Men who hide their names, warble "Slander!", and name-call with abandon?" Keep it up, O Shrinker clan. The names bounce off me, encourage me, and motivate the doctrinal opposition even more.


---

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastors Glende and Ski Reach Out To Pop-Tarts...":

Luther thanked God for his adversaries. He sharpened his knives on them. I guess that you could say that Shrinkers do serve a purpose - they are Doctrinal Whetstones.

Baby Bee Gets Contract for Church and Change Posters

Copyright, Church and Change, 2010. All rights reserved.

Freedom from St. Peter, Freedom

Newspaper Story  <--Mark Driscoll fans - have someone show you how to click on the link.

Why did he leave St. Peter, Freedom?

Pastor Chris Christianson took over as pastor of First Evangelical Lutheran Church in La Crescent Dec. 13 during a small installation ceremony. Christianson, with a talent in music, is close to releasing his first album of original Christian-based music and hopes, within the next few months, to put on a concert at the church for community members. He also wants to incorporate his music into worship services. (Henry-HCN)

By Ryan Henry of the Houston County News

.

Pastor Chris Christianson couldn’t have shown up at a busier time. As any parent knows, moving five children from their home in one town to another is a chore, but throw in the winter weather and the idea of relocating two weeks before Christmas, and you could understand if he was a little tired.

"It’s been a blur, when you move right before Christmas," he said.

Nevertheless, Christianson was officially installed Dec. 13 as the new pastor at First Evangelical Lutheran Church in La Crescent. He led his first service at the church on Dec. 20 before jumping into the holiday schedule.

Christianson takes over for long-time pastor Paul Ibisch, who retired from the ministry after 14 years as pastor of the church to, among other reasons, pursue a run for the Minnesota State Senate.

Christianson and his family n wife of 15 years, Elizabeth, and their children Christian, Samuel, Jonah, Phoebe and Obi n arrived in town just before an early December snowstorm n a blessing in itself n to a congregation awaiting the welcome of a new permanent pastor.

"The people have been super," he said. "They’ve made the transition for us very easy."

It’s the second transition Christianson and his family have made during his seven years in the ministry. His first assignment out of the seminary was at two rural parishes - both named Trinity Lutheran Church n in Lake City and Millville. While at the two churches, he also helped start a mission congregation called Living Word in Plainview.

After that, he served a call at St. Peter’s Lutheran Church in Freedom, Wis., before moving to First Lutheran. It can be common, he said, to move from parish to parish every couple of years. When a pastor is called by a congregation, he has the option to stay at the church he is at or answer the new call.

"I’ve known some pastors who’ve stayed at their church 30 or 40 years and then there are some guys who move around a lot more," Christianson said. "I have a feeling we’re going to be here awhile, though. We really like it here."

Christianson took the road less traveled to becoming a pastor, especially one in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. After graduating from high school, he enrolled at the University of Minnesota-Duluth, primarily to play football, where he started his freshman year.

During that experience, however, he realized there’s more to life than football, so he left UMD after his first year to join the Army, where he served the next three years as a paramedic in Fort Detrick, Md., near Washington, D.C.

After his time in the service, he moved back to his hometown of New Ulm and enrolled at Mankato State University with the goal of becoming a social studies teacher. During his time at MSU, he decided he would go into the ministry, so he finished his bachelor’s degree and then enrolled at Martin Luther College in New Ulm to complete two years of Greek and Hebrew before entering the Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon.

"It’s a little different path than most traditional WELS pastors," he said. "We have a great feeder program in our synod where a lot of guys end up going through the prep school system so they’re already doing some of their class work in high school. Then they’re hitting college and right into seminary.

"As of late, we’re seeing some more nontraditional students ... like me, who are taking a different path."

Although his way to the pulpit didn’t mirror the path of others, he always thought, even as a young boy, that he would like to be a pastor. He said much of that had to do with the strong Christian upbringing his parents provided, but also the deep respect he had for his pastors and "the work of the Lord." But he had other aspirations at the time.

"When I was 7 or 8 years old, I asked my father if I could be a pro football player and a pastor at the same time," Christianson said. "I asked him if I could be a pastor on Sundays and play Monday Night Football.

"He said I could."

To some extent, he fulfilled that dream while in Lake City, where he played for the semi-pro Lake City Legends.

Christianson said he’s excited for the challenge of getting to know the members of First Lutheran.

"I’m more of a people person," he said. "I really enjoy building relationships and making connections with these people and getting to share their lives.

"I’m really excited for the opportunities the Lord has for me to serve the people of this congregation."

It’s his job, he said, to be faithful to the Word of God while serving the people in word and sacrament.

"First and foremost, I want to be proclaiming God’s Word in all its truth and purity so the members of this congregation can be nurtured," he said. "That’ll be my first priority."

But Christianson would also like to provide another form of worship for his parishioners.

He hopes to incorporate his love of performing and writing music into the church’s way of life. Already on Christmas Eve, he sang one of his original Christmas songs at the service.

"The congregation seemed to really enjoy that," he said.

Christianson recently finished his first album of Christian-based music and is entertaining the possibility of playing a concert at the church within the next couple of months for the entire community.

"That’s in the background, but if the Lord so blesses it, I’d love to see it," he said.

Though it hasn’t yet been a month, Christianson has already gotten to know several of his congregants by name and has settled his family into the city. It’s a place he can see himself staying for more than a couple years.

"It’s great. You look out and see the bluffs behind you, and what a great community, too," he said. "I told my wife, ’This feels like home.’"

.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Freedom from St. Peter, Freedom":

Let's face it. WELS was pietist, is pietist, and will always be pietist. This second-career guy can move from one church to another within months, but confessional pastors who went through the WELS system but are suffering at their CG churches are stuck...until they finally give up and and give in? At least the LCMS, regardless of its faults, has more confessional pastors and parishes than the WELS. I'd rather have that in LCMS than true doctrine on paper, but an in-bred overwhelming spirit of anti-confessionalism in WELS.

***

GJ - My intuition: this quickie call had more to do with Ron Ash's clout than with the pastor's ability to get called. Something happened and the guy was out of the state, pronto. Ron has to protect his Shrinker empire, so absence makes the heart grow fonder. When I found out the truth about Columbus, the first thing VP Kuske said was, "Do you want a call?" Why deal with doctrinal issues when a moving van works so well?

All the synods are alike that way. The Indiana-Kentucky LCA bishop talked about swapping pastors with another bishop. He leaned over, in front of a group of laity, and said, "You didn't know we made deals?" I said, "I know all about the alcoholic pastors Indiana has sent to Michigan." His face turned pale and he dropped the subject.

Does this happen in the Holy Spirit Room at the Sausage Factory, not to mention various bars around the Upper Midwest? God forbid, as Paul often said.

I do think there are major changes, for the good, happening. WELS needs a bunch of male leaders, doctrinal leaders, at all levels. That mostly excludes the Boomers.

Motivational Poster for Blended Worship - Copyright James Huebner - Ask Permission First

Copyright, James Huebner, 2010. Used with permission.

We Three Kings - The Day of the Epiphany - January 6th

Beautiful Arrangement of Luther's Hymn - Words Provided

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From Martin Luther: Hymns, Ballads, Chants, Truth page 26-27: "A paraphrase of Psalm 12, this hymn was written in 1523, the same time as many of Luther's other psalm-hymns. It was published in the ...  

From Martin Luther: Hymns, Ballads, Chants, Truth page 26-27:
"A paraphrase of Psalm 12, this hymn was written in 1523, the same time as many of Luther's other psalm-hymns. It was published in the first Lutheran hymnal, Achtliederbuch, of 1524. Luther's version of the psalm reflects much of his own experience in the early days of the Reformation. Though several different tunes were used for this text with various levels of success, the present tune dates from 1524 and is possibly by Luther himself.

Prelude: Ach Gott vom Himmel
George Friedrich Kauffmann, 1679-1735
Publisher: Bärenreiter-Verlag, Kassel

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Beautiful Arrangement of Luther's Hymn - Words Pro...":

Beautiful music! Thank you.

from WELS church lady

***

GJ - Thank Joe Schmidt for posting it. He has an interesting blog, ri-cheer:

http://http://cumsanctospiritu.blogspot.com

Sceleratissimus Lutheranus - The Most Villainous Lutheran. The title given to the great Lutheran theologian Martin Chemnitz by the Roman Catholics after he wrote his masterful work, The Examination of the Council of Trent.

The Essential Lutheran Library

"All you need to be a WELS pastor is Lenski, a Triglotta, and boxer shorts." - Often heard in Watertown.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Essential Lutheran Library":

Are you really certain about the Triglotta?

I'm not so sure about the Twin Cities' area.

Take a look at the WELS and ELS websites for the area.

***

GJ - It was said, not necessarily followed. NWC was considered the last hold-out against Church Growth, and it was hardly pristine in that area. The Shrinkers had plenty of chances to brain-wash, brain-shrink, and shrink-wrap their future pastors before they even got a call. And they sent them back to the Sausage Factory one year after ordination, for additional re-education.

When I was there, they would talk about Reformed errors in one class and teach them in another. Did the faculty notice? I doubt it. Here is a strange thing. One student showed me his "Lord, Liar, Lunatic" essay, based on regurgitating Josh McDowell's argue-them-into faith concept. I asked, "Who is teaching this garbage?" He clammed up. Why discuss doctrine when Holy Mother Church must be defended at all costs? Loose lips sink sinking ships even faster.

Necrology - Theology Professors

Nils A. Dahl taught us "the only thing we know for sure is the text."

He knew all the theories, but emphasized the content of the Word.

Facebook has led me to contact a lot of school friends from the past. Some of these people are looking really old. Here are some departed professors we have known:

• Tjaard Hommes, Dutch Remonstrant, Notre Dame faculty.
• John Howard Yoder, Mennonite, Notre Dame faculty. He studied under Karl Barth and had considerable influence on Stanley Hauerwas. Yoder was my dissertation advisor.
• Bruce Wenger, Yale Medical School - J. P. Pierce Lab. He was our best friend at Yale and a close friend until his death from cancer. He was a member of Bethesda Lutheran Church, formerly Augustana Synod, in New Haven, down the hill from Yale Divinity School.
• Nils A. Dahl, Yale faculty. Bethesda member.
• Paul L. Holmer, Yale faculty. Bethesda member.
• Roland Bainton, Yale faculty. He was retired when we attended his lectures - including Mrs. I and LI.
• Sydney Ahlstrom, Yale faculty. I attended his talks at Bethesda, where he was a member, and his lecture on Jung at Notre Dame.
• Jaroslav Pelikan, Yale faculty. We saw him every week at Bethesda, New Haven, where I worked. He was LCMS but joined Bethesda and later joined Eastern Orthodoxy.
• Henri Nouwen, Yale faculty. He gave lectures at Yale and was a guest speaker at Notre Dame, where he had previously lost his position.
• Krister Stendahl, Harvard, lectured at Yale when I was there. We saw him every so often because his son, John, lived down the hall. John's family also attended Bethesda.
  
• Conrad Bergendoff, Augustana faculty. He was retired when we met him. Mrs. I visited him when he was 102, just before he died.
  

Still active:

1. Stanley Hauerwas was let go after one year at Augustana College, where I met him. He went to Notre Dame and moved up later to Duke University. He is now the most famous theologian and ethicist in America. He was my ND professor and dissertation advisor.
2. Martin Marty was someone we did not meet until Notre Dame was finished with me. I attended his lectures for Notre Dame's summer school. He was very kind in endorsing my dissertation for publication.
   
3. Elisabeth and Francis Schuesller-Fiorenza were both pushed out of Notre Dame, where I studied with both of them. They landed at Harvard with endowed professorships!
4. George Lindbeck, Yale faculty, was the official Lutheran observer at Vatican II.  He attended the early service at Bethesda each Sunday.
5. Stanley Olson is now the head of the ELCA division for ministry. We took classes from Dahl and Malherbe. Stan earned his PhD at Yale at taught at Luther Seminary and also became a bishop. He supports communion with any and all confessions. He also supports the latest actions of ELCA.  He also attended Bethesda.
   
6. Abraham Malherbe was another excellent New Testament professor who emphasized the Greek text, grammar, and the historical context. Like Robert Wilson, the Old Testament professor, he mocked the liberal critics whose theories did not match the facts.

Paul L. Holmer was a magnanimous, gracious professor,

the embodiment of the Christian gentleman.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Necrology - Theology Professors":

Pr Jackson you have omitted the distinguished David Valleskey from this august group.

***

GJ - I did not take any classes from David Valleskey at Mequon. The first time I heard him speak was the day he delivered his Figs From Thistles/Spoiling the Egyptians lecture, endorsing the Church Growth Movement. I asked him if he went to Fuller. He denied going to Fuller. Later, he confessed and did not deny, but confessed to David Koenig that he did go to Fuller. Koenig was angry with me for publishing that fact, because Valleskey was furious with him.

Question on Buildings

This is why I never joined PETA.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Strange But True":

Perhaps Dr. Jackson or one of the wise blog readers can help me with this, as it has truly been a difficult issue for me over the years, particularly when building projects are proposed.

My conservative nature leans towards understated buildings, not wanting to "waste" money on materials. On the other hand, I can see how so many churches of the past spared no expense to glorify God. Should no grand churches or cathedrals exist?

Wasn't the Temple of Solomon constructed based on specific plans given to King David, by God? Were these plans not grand in every sense? Did God have an "edifice complex", which promoted idolatry, or did it glorify God?

EC

***

GJ - An important corrective is the passage about "count the cost."

KJV Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him.

What I observed, and others also saw, was the spending of millions on buildings as if that would turn around a failing church or college. There is obviously a clever combine of building people and fund-raisers who use their synodical affiliation to promote profitable ventures for themselves. They leave behind a costly project that will take decades to pay off. The buildings themselves are liabilities, because they use up more insurance fees, utilities, and other maintenance costs. If everyone can afford it, fine.

A common way to manipulate people is to use the logical fallacy called Special Pleading. There is only one way to look at the situation. Anyone who disagrees is negative, pessimistic, against growth, stingy, short-sighted, and welcome to leave (after signing a pledge). That kind of vision got WELS into buying Prairie du Chien from the Roman Catholics. It failed as a Roman Catholic school, then failed as a Lutheran school. Now it is a prison.

One can find the same kind of thinking in Werning's soporific books, largely copied from his Fuller mentors. Werning promoted the idea that everyone has to spend a lot of money to having a growing church. Werning, for reasons unknown to me, has had a lot of influence on WELS and the Little Sect on the Prairie.

Frugality may find a place again.

---

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Question on Buildings":

My former congregation embarked on a rather significant expansion. There were the usual Church Growth tactics employed to get the members on board. Before they really ratcheted up the appeals, they were having in home "Ambassador Briefings" hosted by members. It was then that I smelled a rat because they were using Waldo Werning material.

***

GJ - I think they were still playing 78 RPM records the last time Werning had a congregation. But that is the definition of an expert in the LCMS - the longer he is away from pastoral duties, the more he is esteemed.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Question on Buildings":

In the parishes I served as pastor (WELS), I have used the following principles with building projects.

First, there has to be a clear need for the building, a need which clearly fits in with the mission of the church.

Second, the people should be asking for the building to be built, rather than it coming from a council, board, or committee. By "the people," I mean people from all segments of the congregation -- the younger families, the retirees (who often pay for most of the building), the middle-aged couples, etc. A building project needs "the people" behind it.

Third, at least one fourth of the cost of the building should be raised in advance of groundbreaking. This lowers the debt, shows the seriousness of the people in wanting the building, and gets people giving toward the project in advance which makes absorbing the debt easier.

Fourth, plan on paying off the building in five to ten years, well before the next capital project is needed.

Fifth, do not build the best building "for God," but build the best building "for God" with the resources available.

Sixth, borrow as much money as possible at the lowest interest rate possible from members -- in a legal way.

Seventh, let everyone possible have input, but also have a cut-off date, clearly publicized, after which no further input will be accepted.

Using these guidelines really works. The last building project I was involved with was a very large auxiliary building. It was "state of the art" construction and was paid off in a year and a half after dedication. The last capital project I was involved with was a $100,000 church improvement. Some money was raised within six months of the purchase and the rest was paid off within six months after the purchase. At the same time, we paid off $200,000 in debt. The church with the building had a large school, funded by the church and a small minority of non-members. We always met our budget. It is my experience that following these principles for building projects not only gets buildings built efficiently, but also increases giving to the budget.

***

GJ - The advice above is much better than the crack-highs of "build it and they will come." The outline shows establishing a clear need, keeping the plans reasonable, and not becoming a debt slave.

Many mega churches are in foreclosure now, including the humorously named Church Without Walls. They owe tens of millions on the walls, and the pastor's ex-wife has taken over.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Question on Buildings":

While I agree wholeheartedly with all the comments listed above, it should also be stated that GJ, for example, was saddled with a WEF (Water Electricity & Flush Toilets) unit in Columbus that many people truly thought was a gas station, and it did hinder visitor traffic. I've preached in churches where the final cost-cutting measure before the blueprints were finally approved, as lowering the ceiling to a depressing depth which ruined acoustics. Apart from aesthetic issues, the church building in these cases proclaimed a theological conviction much akin to church growth philosophy--namely "Function, function, function" as opposed to the Lutheran belief that this is all about God, not about us.
So yes, by all means, a church should build within its means, but that might mean a smaller facility with a bell tower, rather than a massive Assemblies of God type pole barn!

***

GJ - How well I remember. Norm Berg, Fuller alumnus, wanted to build a lot of ugly missions so he could brag about Church Growth. I had nothing to do with building that WEF. It was not cheap, but it was cheaply built. Tim Glende used to make fun of it, calling it "That ugly litle WEF." At least we did not rock and roll in a movie theater.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Question on Buildings":

If I recall correctly, WELS pioneered the WEF (Water Electricity & Flush Toilets) facilities stressing quantity over quality. They were overpriced and a devil to heat in the winter. Some architect sold WELS a bill of goods.

***

GJ - Before WEFs, WELS built chapels that were fairly attractive, although sometimes built in the oddest, secret locations. I saw interesting parallels between LCA and WELS mission blunders. Both groups fell hard for Church Growth and suffered from trying to emulate the Assemblies of God or whatever else was hot at the moment.

Now it can be told - the entire leadership of WELS went supine for the Cancerous Growth Movement.