Predicted and Documented 20 Years Ago in "Out of the Depths of ELCA"

Resolution passed at the ELCA convention in Chicago, August 11th, 2007:


"Resolved, that in an effort to continue as a church in moral deliberation without further strife and pain to its members the Churchwide Assembly prays, urges, and encourages synods, synodical bishops, and the presiding bishop to refrain from or demonstrate restraint in disciplining those congregations and persons who call into the rostered ministry otherwise-qualified candidates who are in a mutual, chaste, and faithful committed same-gender relationship, and be it further

"Resolved, that the Churchwide Assembly prays, urges, and encourages synods, synodical bishops, and the presiding bishop to refrain from or demonstrate restraint in disciplining those rostered leaders in a mutual, chaste, and faithful committed same-gender relationship who have been called and rostered in this church."

When other pundits like Paul McCain were arranging joint religious efforts with ELCA,
Ur-Ichabod published a chapter about homosexual activism in Out of the Depths of ELCA.

Bohlmann published an article on confessional ecumenism. Werning supported it wholeheartedly.

Snowball is now looking through the window at the latest ELCA-WELS-LCMS meeting. Poor Snowball, he cannot tell one synod from another. See Orwell's Animal Farm, an allegory about Stalinism and Stalinistic synods.

Hymn Questions and Liturgy Matters

Arthur asked about the proper characteristics of a hymn. Unfortunately, I do not have time for another project.

People are fond of knocking The Lutheran Hymnal. Have they created a better, more confessional one since then?

ELS? - Plenty of ELCA material. Funny, the old ELS hymnal did not need ELCA.

WELS? - Tiefel said, "I have the title, so I will do it my way." Just what WELS needed, a Church Growth ecumenist in charge of worship. WELS pastors had a chance to show some spine, even passively, by not buying it. They went for Charismatic Worship almost 100%. By the way, hymnal projects rake in the dough for the synod. The cost of printing a huge run is slightly more than the cost of paper.

LCMS? - They have made several attempts. 1 - Buying the LBW. 2. Editing the B out and selling LW. 3. The new one.

ELCA? - The ELCA is following mainline trends. Ecumenical worship was not a big enough thrill, so they began worship services (with guidelines) among various pagan religions. The Muslims and Hindus are too tame, so the cutting edge factions have adopted old pagan, earth-mother, fertility rites from the pagans. Yes, ELCA will have publicized Wiccan services in a matter of time. American Indian rites are similar. The LA archdiocese already used them to dedicate their new cathedral.

So Missouri, WELS, and the ELS will continue to follow ELCA a few years later, as they always have, posturing about how they are not as bad as ELCA.

Bailing Water - New WELS Blog

Someone linked me to Bailing Water, which sounded like a rock group in Southern Minnesota.

I do not know who writes this blog, but it is worth reading.

Tenth Sunday after Trinity - Den of Thieves

KJV 1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

KJV Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. 45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; 46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves. 47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him, 48 And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.

TLH Hymns

The Hymn vss 1-4 #188
The Sermon Hymn #13
The Hymn #307
The Hymn #316

Den of Thieves

When Jesus looked over the city of Jerusalem, He wept over it, knowing what would happen in 40 years. First Jerusalem crucified Him. Nevertheless, the Gospel was proclaimed there and thousands were converted (Acts). The Christian Church was so successful that the religious authorities persecuted the new church and drove out the Christians, killing their leaders. Thus Jerusalem showed two-fold bitterness toward its Savior, much in the pattern of murdering prophets in ancient days.

The persecution spared the Christians, scattering them along the waterways and highways of the Roman Empire, where they set up new congregations. Religious tensions grew in Jerusalem, aggravated by Roman disdain for their monotheism. The fanatical Jews first routed a small Roman army, making them bold to try independence, which was forbidden in the Roman Empire. A large Roman army moved in their direction.

What Jesus predicted was carried out with uncommon precision. Thanks to slave labor and Roman persistence, the city was surrounded by a wall so that everyone was kept inside, no food coming in to help the masses of residents and a horde of visitors for the religious holidays. A massive supply of grain was burned early, so panic and starvation set in. Cannibalism took hold with scenes too graphic to repeat. They are in Josephus’ history, a first-hand account.

Jerusalem was such a powerfully situated city, with a protected water supply, that one Roman said only God could have willed that the capital be taken by force. The Roman army became God’s instrument of wrath. Not one stone was left on another in the army’s zeal to find gold. The temple of Herod was utterly destroyed. So many residents were sold into slavery that they had to ship them away to get decent money for them. Jews had been dispersed before, but this was even greater and more painful.

This rebellion of 69-70 AD convinced Rome that the Christians in their own capital were just another band of troublesome Jews. The growth of Christianity in Rome also incited persecution. Nero was famous for his tortures of Christians, but he was not alone. Luther’s comment about Rome is worth remembering – “They tolerated every god but One.” They even built a tremendous temple to all gods – the Pantheon, still famous for its architecture.

Thus Jesus foresaw the persecution He and His followers would face and wept over the fate of those who brought God’s wrath upon themselves. Jesus’ many visits to Jerusalem, starting with His boyhood teaching in the temple, showed His many attempts to win converts to God’s Word. He went to those who hated the promised Gospel most and brought God’s grace to them.

The message today is – go where it is easy. Go to the zip codes where people are moving and they have plenty of money to pay for nice buildings. Take an easy message anyone can enjoy. Give them man-made law, like how to be successful and popular. Turn the Gospel of forgiveness into the gospel of prosperity. Never argue about doctrine, because doctrine divides (the sheep from the goats).

Knowing the persecution He would face, why did Jesus set His face steadfastly toward Jerusalem and confront the moneylenders in the temple courtyard. People still cheer that idea, overturning the tables, making a whip from His belt. They often discuss it during the bake sale out in the narthex, the car wash by the youth to pay for their trip to the Wisconsin Dells, the men’s fish fry (all you can eat for…) People have no trouble talking about this and asking if they have enough Thrivent napkins for the next coffee hour, the Thriven liturgical chart, and the Thrivent matching funds for the rummage sale, car wash, bake sale, and fish fry.

Who would guess that the only work of the Christian Church is to proclaim the Gospel, teach the Word of God, and care for the membership?

Worse is the attitude that the Christian Church is a business venture to be run as a business. The materialistic model is easy to adopt, because we live with it all around us. Things are changing because of it. Newspapers will soon give up on print editions, some say. The Monday edition of the Phoenix paper is the size of a shopper’s guide. So the business model is used to revamp and upgrade the Church.

As I expected and predicted, ELCA took its apostasy another step and approved homosexual partners in the parsonage, the convention voting to tell bishops to stop disciplining “chaste, committed relationships” in the parsonage. I wonder how many chaste, committed relationships existed at Sodom, which still lends its name to those practices?

I also predicted that “conservative” Lutherans would immediately start clucking their tongues over the ELCA convention. Some even worry and complain that non-Lutherans group them all together. And why not?

Paul McCain was SP Al Barry’s assistant for nine years. For the entire time the Missouri Synod and WELS (ELS as a tag-along) worked with ELCA on all kinds of religious projects, including evangelism and the Joy radio show. The same Barry-McCain administration refused to discipline DP Benke for outrages against good confessional practice. As Henry of Navarre said about caving in, “Paris is worth one Mass.”

If ELCA is so terrible, then why work with them as partner churches? (Missouri even listed ELCA and Thrivent as “partners in ministry” on their webpage!) Why hector and lecture ELCA after working with them via the Purple Palace?

The Barry-McCain administration prepared the way for even more pan-Lutheran and pan-religious worship in the Kieschnick regime. Which is worse, to go against one’s stated beliefs, as Barry and McCain did, or to do exactly what was expected, as Kieschnick has done? In the Benke case, Barry watered, McCain planted, and Kieschnick gaveth the growth.

The Gospel rain moves on, as Luther taught. The message of Jesus moved East at first, creating a Christian Empire for 1100 years, the largely forgotten Byzantine Empire. Then Islam took over Byzantium and the Gospel moved West across Europe and into America during the Age of Exploration. Persecution of Christians by Rome helped funnel English and French Protestants to America. Later persecutions sent the founders of the LCMS to America, to enjoy freedom from the Prussian Union of Lutherans and Reformed (now recaptured in the Church Growth Movement, which has been flourishing in all synods for the last 30 years).

Various trends have ended the vitality of the Lutheran Church in North America, but the Gospel moves on. Christians were eager to make China Christian in the 19th century, called The Christian Century back then. (The magazine reflects the optimism, but the Christian Century magazine is hopelessly anti-religious now and has been for decades.) Some claim (posted on Ichabod) that Christians in China now vow and actively work to Christianize Islam, to take the Gospel back to Jerusalem as the last act of God’s drama. They gladly endure persecution in China and Muslim lands for the sake of the Gospel.

A den of thieves will not last as God’s temple. We are all sinners, but that is diagnosis according to God’s Word, not an excuse to do what we want.

The mercy of God is shown in His desire to give us the Gospel in visible form. When we see the elements of Holy Communion and participate in the sacrament, our individual attention is focused up this Means of Grace, which the Concordists called “an instrument.” Zwingli made fun of this concept. He wrote, “God does not need a vehicle, like an oxcart.” True in one sense - God does not need an instrument, but we do. In God’s wisdom He established various means: the preached and taught Word, Holy Baptism, Holy Communion, absolution, and the mutual consolation of the brothers. He has done all this for our needs, not for His needs.

One might say, “Jesus did not need to feed the Five Thousand and have many baskets left over.” He did not need that, but He accomplished the miracle to reveal the abundance God offers in His promises.

Jesus’ patience and mercy toward Jerusalem, the planting of God’s Word in the very place where the Savior was rejected and killed, is a testimony to us of His patience and mercy toward each and every one of us.

WELS Christian Worship Much Like ELCA Goodsoil

About 15 years ago, WELS brought out its Christian Worship hymnal, possibly the worst Lutheran hymnal ever printed, thanks to James (Pope at GA) Tiefel.

Those who gasp at the paganism, legalism, and tub-thumping stupidity of Goodsoil should read CW once. Could Holy Mother WELS, virgin pure and immaculate, produce something so dreadful and have all its pastors use it? Yes.

Could WELS produce something so hideous that even the Little Sect on the Prairie held its nose and printed their own? Yes.

Check out these barbarisms:
1. The Creeds were changed to please the feminists, yet Dorothy Sonntag quit and joined ELCA anyway. The Northwestern Lutheran blessed her on her way. The "fully human" reading in the Creed cannot be justified by any literate pastor, but such are in short supply in WELS.
2. Tiefel, also known as Teufel in WELS, changed the liturgy to harmonize with that of the Pietists. Another poke in the eye for traditional Lutherans.
3. Victor Prange said that the hymns were re-written with feminist language.
4. Favorite Fuller Seminary hog-calling songs were added, to appeal to the one or two Evangelicals who join WELS by mistake, thinking they are in a Baptist congregation.
5. The in-crowd got their own hymns printed in the book, showing people once again that "the idiot of the family goes into the ministry." One hymn is about planning, Management by Objective. Really. I am not kidding. I can do that:

O God, we thank You for our MBO
That is the plan that makes us go
We think we really oughta grow
By 10 percent, just make it so. (To Old One Hundreth)

Is it a shock that a clergy adulterer sat on the hymnal commission, divorced his wife, and married his mistress?

"Lord, Lord, did we not produce hymnals. Did we not do signs and wonders and Mission/Vision statements."

If the Creeds, liturgy, and hymns can be changed, so can the Ten Commandments, now billed as the user-friendly Five Suggestions for Effective, Prosperous Living.

Liberal Lutherans Discuss Alternative ELCA Eucharist

GJ: The ALPB publishes the Lutheran Forum Letter, once edited by Richard Neuhaus, once LCMS, now a Roman Catholic priest. He was followed by another Lutheran pastor who is now a priest. Yes, they call themselves confessional Lutherans, just like WELS. OK, stop laughing now. The Holy Communion service discussed below was held at the ELCA convention in Chicago, but it was an alternative service for the hippest of the hip, the Lavender Mafia and its supporters.

Note this link:

http://www.goodsoil.org/pg.php?page=wednesday_leaflet

Holy Mother Synods LCMS-WELS-ELS say they are not in fellowship with ELCA, but their hymnal are modeled after and copy vast amounts of ELCA's LBW. The ELS Hymnal is the least obnoxious, but still copies ELCA. Why?

The hip liturgies of today are the standards of tomorrow, so read and beware.

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

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Richard Johnson
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Create in me a clean heart, O God.


That Goodsoil Eucharist
« on: August 09, 2007, 12:11:24 PM »

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That Goodsoil Eucharist.

I spoke to a couple of people who took it upon themselves to attend the Goodsoil Eucharist last night. There were perhaps 600 people present (most of whom, of course, are not voting members, though there were plenty of those, too, and they did spot at least bishops in addition to Presider Margaret Payne (those I heard mentioned were Peter Rogness and Murray Finck). Incidentally, I heard last night that Bp. Payne had shared with the Conference of Bishops a few months ago that she intended to do this. Some of them were not happy.)

The cover of the bulletin was “Anticipation of the Spirit’s Movement: A goodsoil Celebration of the Vigil of Pentecost.” They called it “waiting for the gift of the spirit to be poured out on flesh.” The service was “expansive in its use of language” (true enough) and “grounded in the historic liturgy of the Church” (less true).

The liturgy as it began was not so different from any ELW liturgy—plenty of inclusive language in prayers and hymns. The serious departure from “historic liturgy” came with the “creed”:

I believe in God, maker of an unfinished world, who calls us to participate in bringing about the fullness of Creation . . . who has not divided people into rich and poor, owners and slaves, nor pitted us against each other because of race, color, social class or sex. I believe in Jesus Christ who was ridiculed, tortured and executed for the sins of humankind. He has overthrown the rule of evil and injustice and continues to judge and redeem the hatred and arrogance of human beings. [Note nothing here about born or raised.] I believe in the Spirit of God whose flame comforts us with divine presence and causes our hearts to burn for righteousness and justice . . . I believe that God, through people, can bring peace and hope, justice and equality, the relief of suffering and pain, and the final triumph of love and grace. Wow.

The offering was to be tithed to the Chicago Night Ministry, another tithe to Greater Chicago Food Depository. The rest for the clergy defense fund and “activities at the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly.”

The “Eucharistic Prayer” began: “God is with you. And also with you. Lift up your hearts. We lift them to the Holy One. Let us give thanks to the source of all things. It is right to give our thanks and praise.”

The real eye-popper was the “Lord’s Prayer”:

Eternal Spirit, Earth-Maker, Pain-bearer, Life-giver, source of all that is and that shall be, Father and Mother of us all. Loving God, in whom is heaven. The hallowing of your name echoes through the universe! The way of your justice be followed by the peoples of the earth! Your heavenly will be done by all created beings! Your commonwealth of peace and freedom sustain our hope and come on earth. With the bread we need for today, feed us. In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us. In times of temptation and test, spare us. From the grip of all that is evil, free us. For you reign in the glory of the power that is love, now and forever.

Well, as one of my contacts said (and with a good bit of emotion), “I felt like a stranger in a foreign land.” This person also said that when this prayer was read, a couple of them prayed the actual Lord’s Prayer. (“If it was good enough for Jesus . . .”)

One interesting comment I heard: “This is just enthusiasm, with a layer of post-modernism.” Sounded about right to me.

Another comment: “For a service billed as ‘inclusive,’ it was terrible ‘exclusive’; lots of comments and jokes that were really ‘in crowd’ comments that an outsider would not understand.” Another: “I felt like I was back in the ‘60’s; it was all ‘social justice.’”

And so it seemed, at least to my informants . . .

(Incidentally, the complaint about something being "passed out" illicitly was apparently about a card inviting people to several Goodsoil events.)


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Richard Johnson


Charles_Austin
ALPB Contribution Leader

Posts: 1553


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2007, 12:17:21 PM »

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I heard part of the Goodsoil liturgy. (I was too worn out to stay for the whole thing.) I did spot four ELCA bishops in addition to Bishop Payne. I didn't care for some of the language, but I took some of the formulations to be considered "alternatives" and not replacements for the creed and the Our Father. Yes, it was in some sense an "in group" service, sort of like a congregational anniversary, or another worship for a special occasion of a special group. But there was word - scripture - and sacrament, and a type of community very evident among the participants.

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Charles Austin
Retired pastor, serving an interim, freelance writer


Javen
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Posts: 7


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM »

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That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures.... The richness and diversity of its forms, the simplicity of its language, and its concern for the hundreds of years of worship practices of the Anglican Church combine in a Prayer Book for the Twenty-first Century." I know you have to be a fruit loop (and wildly unorthodox) to like that kind of thing, but I've found it to be a wonderful worship resource.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/006060199X/churcofoursavios

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legaleagle
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Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2007, 12:57:52 PM »

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It is stuff like this that hinders Ecumenism with orthodox churches and will keep the ELCA and LCMS apart for many years to come. It is truly sad.

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Tom Shelley
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Posts: 169


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2007, 01:52:37 PM »

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Quote from: legaleagle on August 09, 2007, 12:57:52 PM
It is stuff like this that hinders Ecumenism with orthodox churches and will keep the ELCA and LCMS apart for many years to come. It is truly sad.


It is stuff like this that causes me to quote the phrase used by Mercersburg theologian John Williamson Nevin against the 19th century Lutheran proponents of the "new measures": "Why, then, do you call yourself Lutheran?"

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Charles_Austin
ALPB Contribution Leader

Posts: 1553


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2007, 01:58:18 PM »

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Someone writes:
t is stuff like this that hinders Ecumenism with orthodox churches and will keep the ELCA and LCMS apart for many years to come. It is truly sad.

I comment:
But it is only "sad" if one thinks there is real possibility for full relations between the ELCA and the LC-MS. If one is looking elsewhere for further cooperation in mission, then it is not "sad."

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Charles Austin
Retired pastor, serving an interim, freelance writer


Pilgrim
ALPB Forum Member

Posts: 35


I love YaBB 1G - SP1!


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2007, 02:02:17 PM »

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Charles Austin comments:
But it is only "sad" if one thinks there is real possibility for full relations between the ELCA and the LC-MS. If one is looking elsewhere for further cooperation in mission, then it is not "sad."

Tim Christ reflects in response: No, it is indeed sad if one is not looking ALSO at the relationship of the two significant Lutheran bodies in the US at one and the same time, but rather is looking elsewhere, in effect, sending the message of having "given up" on our closest theological relation.

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Pr. Tim Christ


Pr. Jerry
ALPB Forum Member

Posts: 64


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2007, 02:07:39 PM »

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Quote from: Richard Johnson on August 09, 2007, 12:11:24 PM

The real eye-popper was the “Lord’s Prayer”: Eternal Spirit, Earth-Maker, Pain-bearer, Life-giver, source of all that is and that shall be, Father and Mother of us all. Loving God, in whom is heaven. The hallowing of your name echoes through the universe! The way of your justice be followed by the peoples of the earth! Your heavenly will be done by all created beings! Your commonwealth of peace and freedom sustain our hope and come on earth. With the bread we need for today, feed us. In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us. In times of temptation and test, spare us. From the grip of all that is evil, free us. For you reign in the glory of the power that is love, now and forever.


This prayer comes from the "New Zealand Prayerbook" from the Anglican Church of New Zealand (I beg pardon if I got the official title wrong...). It is not sanctioned for the Episcopal Church USA, though I had to endure the entire "Evening Prayer" at a (L)utheran (A)nglican (R)oman (C)atholic retreat a couple of years ago in West Virginia. It is heretical in a number of ways: polytheistic, animistic, and modalistic to name a few...

I refused to say any of it.

Pax Christi;
Pr. Jerry Kliner, STS

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Pr. Jerry Kliner
Cross of Grace Lutheran Church, Hurricane, WV
"Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ." (St. Jerome, Translator)


Irl Gladfelter
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+ Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam +


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2007, 02:11:21 PM »

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Quote from: Javen on August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM
That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures....
"Earth-based spirituality" from liberal Anglicans . . . Of course . . . That makes perfect sense . . . (sigh)

« Last Edit: August 09, 2007, 02:13:13 PM by Irl Gladfelter » Logged

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Sc ott Yaki mow
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Kalimat Allah satuthbit ila al-Akhir (i.e., VDMA)


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2007, 02:22:45 PM »

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Quote from: Javen on August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM
That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures...


Interesting mode of defense. It's OK because it corresponds to animistic beliefs?

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Dhikr Allah huwa akthar min ayy shay fiy khayyah


Charles_Austin
ALPB Contribution Leader

Posts: 1553


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2007, 02:31:58 PM »

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Pilgrim comments:
sending the message of having "given up" on our closest theological relation.

I ponder:
One might ask whether the LC-MS is indeed our "closest theological relation." Think: approach to scripture and tradition, ordination for women, sacramental practices, type of theological education, ecumenical relations, church structure and polity, stances on social issues such as abortion, the death penalty and war, usw. And one could ask just how "close" we are to the LC-MS.

To say again: I favor full communion with the LC-MS, right now, and I wouldn't ask them to change any of their policies in order to be in full communion with them.

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Charles Austin
Retired pastor, serving an interim, freelance writer


Irl Gladfelter
ALPB Contribution Leader

Posts: 1076


+ Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam +


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2007, 02:40:51 PM »

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Quote from: Scott._.Yaki mow on August 09, 2007, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Javen on August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM
That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures...


Interesting mode of defense. It's OK because it corresponds to animistic beliefs?

I am tempted to point out that the U. S. Anglicans (TEC) has also in recent years had some who have experimented with "rich erth-based spirituality" - priests who were also Druids, neo-paganism with that "goddess liturgy" with offering of raisin cakes their women's ministries unit came up with a couple of years or so ago, so why should this be suprising. . .

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Vern
ALPB Forum Member

Posts: 73


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2007, 02:48:12 PM »

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Now then, does anyone wish to ask Why We Need Word Alone?

Vern

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Richard Johnson
ALPB Administrator
ALPB Contribution Leader

Posts: 1532

Create in me a clean heart, O God.


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2007, 02:50:08 PM »

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Quote from: Vern on August 09, 2007, 02:48:12 PM
Now then, does anyone wish to ask Why We Need Word Alone?

Vern


You don't need to be a Word Alone sympathizer to be grieved by that liturgy. Many of us who would in no way be described as Word Alone partisans (though often some of our best friends are) still believe it was really awful.

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Richard Johnson


Sc ott Yaki mow
ALPB Contribution Leader

Posts: 1193


Kalimat Allah satuthbit ila al-Akhir (i.e., VDMA)


Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2007, 02:58:26 PM »

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Are people seeing the fact that this service was presided over by a sitting Bishop as being in any way a schismatic act or not?

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Will WELS-LCMS-ELS Break Fellowship with ELCA?

Outrage as US Lutherans Ease Rules on Pastors in Gay Relationships
Christian Today | 11 August AD 2007 | Daniel Blake

Lavender Mafia, Multi-Cultural


Outrage as US Lutherans Ease Rules on Pastors in Gay Relationships

The largest Lutheran body in the US has caused outrage in the wider Christian community as it controversially decided not to punish homosexual clergy who are in sexual relationships, according to an announcement made on Saturday.

by Daniel Blake Posted: Saturday, August 11, 2007, 19:50 (BST)

The largest Lutheran body in the US has caused outrage in the wider Christian community as it controversially decided not to punish homosexual clergy who are in sexual relationships, according to an announcement made on Saturday.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) passed a resolution at its annual assembly urging bishops to refrain from disciplining pastors who are in “faithful committed same-gender relationships”.

The resolution was passed by a vote of 538-431.

A day earlier, attendees voted down a measure that would have ended a ban on non-celibate gay clergy. But Saturday’s vote means those who violate that policy can no longer be tried or punished.

Phil Soucy, spokesman for Lutherans Concerned, a gay-lesbian rights group within the Church said: “The Church ... has just said 'Do not do punishments'. That is huge.”

The 4.8-million member ELCA had previously allowed gays to serve as pastors, but only under the condition that they abstained from any sexual relations.

The conference also instructed a committee that is developing a social statement on sexuality to further investigate the issue. The committee is scheduled to release its report in 2009.

Since the ELCA was founded in 1988, the body has ordered three pastors in gay relationships to be removed from their ministries.

The announcement has greatly outraged conservatives within the Christian community who follow the historic Christian teachings, which declares homosexuality a sin according to Scripture.

Rev. Mark Chavez, leader of Lutheran CORE, a group that says non-celibate gays should not serve as pastors, called the decision “tragic”.

“This decision will be an excuse for bishops to disobey ELCA policy,” he said. “This decision does not reflect the will of the people, but of bishops and clergy who disregard God’s word.”

The gay clergy issue has become an increasingly volatile subject amongst Christian denominations – in particular the 77-million member strong worldwide Anglican Communion is on the verge of schism as it debates the controversial issue.

***

GJ - Merger in 1987 started with 5.3 million ELCA members. Now they boast 4.8 million, after following Church Growth methods almost as faithfully as WELS and Missouri.

One Named

BMEYER has left a new comment on your post "Paul McCain, Compassion Incarnate":

Mr. McCain, you state, "Name even one single Lutheran pastor who supports you Greg(g)." Truth is if you have an issue with Pastor Jackson's doctrine, name the doctrine and state the Scripture and Lutheran Confessions and show where you believe he violates it. Everyone is required to contend for Scriptural truth. When you see a problem it is in the interest of doctrinal purity to point it out and correct it. No one benefits from accepting false doctrine, knowingly or not. The fact that you may be hated (alienated) because the Holy Spirit has led you to contend for pure doctrine and worked in you the willingness to endure persecution it is a good thing. We then share in the persecution suffered by our Lord and Savior. It is those pastors who do not support Pastor Jackson and his attempt to warn Christ's universal church of these false doctrines who have neglected their duty to protect the sheep. They have exchanged the clarity and efficacy of the Scriptures for temporal, human relationships. Many become indignant at the charge that Church Growth doctrines have taken hold in the WELS and ELS. Allow me to relate my experience in the WELS to support the charge.
Holy Trinity Lutheran Church (HTLC) in Des Moines, Washington owned their church facility and property. They were holding multiple services on Sundays and during the week to accommodate the congregation which was larger than the building could hold at one service. They operated a CDS in the basement. Working with the WELS Synod officials they decided to raze their current building and build larger church with increased facilities for the school. The CEF assisted with obtaining part of the roughly 2.4 million dollars required. Part of the money came from getting congregation members to take second mortgages on their homes. Part of the money came from donations using Thrivent matching funds. Thrivent is also the organization who had recently given 2 million dollars to ELCA to support their Christ denying outreach and finance abortions. When this issue was raised to the voters the response from a retired pastor was, "But if we don't use the money somebody else will." So they built the church under the theme, "Let the Children Come". (Apparently directed toward those children not aborted by Thrivent money) Once built there was intense pressure to ensure consistent offerings to support the new facility. Because there was now roughly 1.3 million owed in outstanding debt, doctrines on Christian stewardship moved from a function and motivation of the Gospel, with the Holy Spirit working faith in a person to give of what they've been given by God, to a function of the law where you have to give. That the amount each family gave, or said they would give, was more and more important. When the comment was made, "that had God wanted HTLC to build a larger church He would have provided the means to do so "prior" to building it" was met with silence. The comment, "that making a dicision on your own that God wants the church to do this even though there wasn't the money available" was met with silence. So the money required to handle such a large debt was not coming in. The families who mortgaged their homes were being asked by the banks to pay the debt and the church did not have the money to repay them. So the harshest twist came when money from the "Let the Children Come" restricted school funds was used to pay monthly expenses. And more money drives were dreamed up in an attempt to repay the debt. A comment by the CDS principal during a voters meeting exposed what apparently private conversations opinioned prior to the building, "If we had just gotten the 15% increase in membership that building the facility was supposed to have brought we wouldn't be in this position." When a comment was made that, "In contrast to that statement, the Holy Spirit alone is the one who provides any increase." the principal walked out.
And during this the Synod decided to send a call to the fairly conservative pastor for an open lead pastorship in Arizona. He accepted the call and we received a call list. The new pastor immediately began the church growth process. The first being a Bible class on "What is a Church?" where he made the statement, "We come to church to bring our praises to God." When I made the contrasting statement, "No, we come to church to be served by God through Word and Sacrament" a discussion ensued which included the pastor's statement, "well, ok but I can't say which is more important." and ended with his, "Ok, let's say their both important" and "let's just agree to disagree." Various issues followed that initial Bible class. Mostly surrounding his attempts to grow the church by Church Growth means instead of through God's Word and Sacraments. He was adament that he wasn't, "Church Growth" while declaring that his favorite seminary professor was David Vallesky. One Sunday the pastor decided to begin the liturgical reading and during the reading he handed it off to all the women to read the liturgy to the congregation, and after a few verses had all the men read and then around it went. A long discussion ensued which lasted a few months concerning the role of women in the church and the applicability of 1 Tim. 2:12 and 1 Cor. 14:34. It ended with the following statement from the Pastor and Elders, "After prayerful consideration and study of the Word in this matter we believe that antiphonal worship is a proclamation or reading of God's inspired word and is not considered to be teaching the congregation." And from another WELS pastor, "However there is quite a stretch between women teaching (ie expounding, explaining, clarifying and elucidating Scripture) and reading Scripture antiphonally and collectively without giving instruction."
Take this for what you are capable of getting out of it. Truth is that what Pastor Jackson points out in quoting false teachers and exposing their actions is actually happening. Sad, sick and unChristian as those quotes and actions are. And while so many pastors in the ELS and WELS scramble around to excuse one another there remains in the pew thousands of individuals who need to hear God's pure Word and need to learn to discern between God's Truth and the faith killing lies fed to them by false teachers. May each of you reject temporal, human relationships in favor of the everlasting grace found in God's Word and Sacraments alone, purely taught and rightly distributed. What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul?

By the grace of God, forever in Christ,
Brett Meyer

Not for Immediate Release in the Lutheran Press

Lutherans (even in ELCA) will be gasping and gulping air when they read the news about the current convention in Chicago. The Lavender Mafia will have won another victory, one way or another.

Why the shock? I spent a chapter on this in Out of the Depths of ELCA, 1987, Christian News.

In twenty years, the only things changing have been:
1. More joint activities among ELCA-WELS-LCMS. Even the the Little Sect on the Prairie copied the LBW (Liberal Book of Weirdness) to produce their new hymnal. WELS' Charismatic Worship looks identical, almost a copyright infringement.
2. More gay activism among the synods, hidden under the term multi-culturalism. That was actually a project among the four-letter synods. The project started at the Snowbird leadership conference, all publicly documented in the insurance magazines and The Lutheran.
3. More shock expressed about the Church of Rome's troubles.

Just as I suspected, when the LA Archdiocese of the Catholic Church had a huge settlement due to priestly homosexual abuse ($600 million or so), the Lutherans said naughty, naughty instead of admitting their own problems.

Now WELS and LCMS pastors will give sermons tomorrow or next Sunday on that naughty, naughty ELCA, without ever revealing that both synods are in bed with ELCA - have been for decades. Without ever admitting all the felonious cover-ups in their own synods.

Better Arguments Needed

If you want to prove me wrong, you will need better arguments than what you have attempted so far. The arguments, briefly summarized are:
1. You are a bad person, so our synod is perfect.
2. We made real whipped cream at our Starbucks, so WELS is perfect.
3. You are a horrible person, so that proves you are wrong.

The best one is from Paul (Do you know who I used to be?) McCain. According to the man who secretly worked with Otten and turned on him, I do not have anyone in the entire Lutheran church who agrees with me, laity or pastor. And that includes the mini-micro synods, too.

It is not hard to find Paul McCain demanding an apology from someone on the Internet. He will pardon us if a wry smile crosses our faces the next time we see him ordering one up.

People doubt whether McCain knows many people outside the political cell groups that always flutter around without doing anything. If they spent the same time and energy committing their deep thoughts to books, we would have something to treasure for the next generation.

The fact remains, they will leave nothing behind, just like the Spartans. The synod politicians have shown no scholarship, shirked the responsibility of teaching orthodox Lutheran doctrine, and devoted themselves to having cushy jobs. They are clever as foxes and as easily turned as weather-vanes.

You Guys Are All in Fellowship with the Moravians Now

"Lie down with dawgs, get up with Moravians," my grandpappy used to say.

ELCA NEWS SERVICE

August 9, 2007

ELCA Assembly Extends Full Communion Relationship with Moravian Church
07-CWA-025-LL*


CHICAGO (ELCA) - The 2007 Churchwide Assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) extended the ELCA's full communion partnership with the Moravian Church in America to the East Western Indies and the Alaska Provinces of the Moravian Church in America during the 7th plenary session Aug. 9.
The assembly, the chief legislative authority of the ELCA, is meeting here Aug. 6-11 at Navy Pier's Festival Hall. About 2,000 people are participating, including 1,068 ELCA voting members. The theme for the biennial assembly is "Living in God's Amazing Grace: Thanks be to God!"

The 1999 Churchwide Assembly voted to accept a proposal for full communion for the Northern and Southern Provinces of the Moravian Church in America. The first worship service of full communion was held between the ELCA and the Moravian Church in America in 2000.

The 2007 assembly resolution recognized "that these two [the Northern and Southern] provinces of the Moravian Church in America do not cover all the geographical territory encompassed by the church."

The resolution was passed without amendment with a vote of 999 to 23. The Rev. Gary L. Harke, executive director, Pennsylvania Council of Churches, addressed the assembly after the resolution was adopted. "These actions speak to your commitment to ecumenical work and to full communion," he said.
---
Information about the 2007 ELCA Churchwide Assembly can be found at http://www.ELCA.org/assembly/ on the Web.

* Lauren A. Lamb is a senior public relations and speech communication major at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. This summer she is an intern with the ELCA News Service.


For information contact:
John Brooks, Director (773) 380-2958 or news@elca.org
http://www.elca.org/news
ELCA News Blog: http://www.elca.org/news/blog

***

GJ - Yes, the "conservative" Lutheran synods are already in fellowship with ELCA, so now they can add the Moravians to their list. I like Moravians. Our next-doorski at Yale was Moravian. He played the Mozart clarinet quintet all year, over and over. I loved it. He apologized for playing it so much, but I thanked him.

The Moravians are Pietists, so they fit well with the American Lutheran experience. "Come, Lord Jesus, be our Guest," is a Moravian prayer. "Jesus, Thy Blood and Righteousness" is a Moravian hymn.

The Pentecostal influence is far more dangerous to Lutheran doctrine (all things considered), so I will write more about that later.

Paul McCain, Compassion Incarnate

Paul T. McCain has left a new comment on your post "The Tipping Point - Malcolm Gladwell":

Gregg, you need to tell the truth. The only reason I agreed to see you at the International Center was because you were without a position in the ministry an were selling insurance and tried to sell me a policy.

This was before you alienated absolutely every person and every Lutheran Synod, micro-Synod and Lutheran congregation in the USA.

Name even one single Lutheran pastor who supports you Gregg.

I feel sorry for you.

***

I'm glad to add Paul McCain to my list of readers. The Barry-McCain-0tten administration paved the way for SP Kieschnick, so people can be grateful for Paul's leadership. The Barry administration did nothing about DP Benke, so others took the fall when Benke backslid at Yankee Stadium. What did Barry do to end Pentecostalism and Church Growth in the Missouri Synod? Nothing. Thus, Kieschnick.

McCain was quite friendly to me when he was campaign manager for Barry. He bragged about working secretly with Otten, then denied it heatedly and publicly. People should remember that fact when McCain makes his next public denial. He got quite hostile with Otten when the editor was no longer useful to him. That says a lot about McCain.

McCain said he had plenty of insurance coverage, so I did not try to sell him anything, in spite of his claim.

Paul could not face the fact that ELCA women vicars were baptizing and celebrating Holy Communion at LCMS congregations in Ohio. I told him I read the reports at Trinity Seminary, Columbus, Ohio. I also said Barry was too soft on Church Growth. That really made McCain hostile.

Before Paul was elevated to the Purple Palace, he was against Church Growth. I still have a long letter from him commending my anti-CG articles in Christian News. I was just about alone then and still am doing solo work among the trembling, timorous Lutherans. Does McCain's CPH sell Church Growth books now? CPH published Werning, for pity's sake.

I am sure no one in Paul's circle of political friends is on the side of Luther, Chemnitz, or even Walther. I heard Paul brag about undercutting Robert Preus, then saw that he gave an award to Mrs. Preus after her husband died. Here's some advice from the Greeks - A chameleon can turn every color, except white.

Recently Paul has been giving advice to the pope on Cyberbrethren, so I am glad he had time to pity me. I have had a rich, full, exciting, dramatic, and fulfilling life so far. I never needed to deceive people to keep a menial job, so I really do not need the pity of one who does.

Phil Rehberger said...

Phil posted a rather upset comment. The trouble is, when Anonymous is used so often, people are going to assume the same no-name is playing games. Phil, you should see the comments I have blocked! One person does use many different pseudonyms as well.

If you write, "again," then you are implying repetition. What else does again mean? You implied you posted before under one name or another.

No, I do not have to prove everything I say with an APA reference. This is a blog, not a dissertation. The typical WELS gambit is, "Prove what you are saying." When it is proved, the subject is changed, slicker than goose grease. Often, the Holy Mother WELS rep will say, "Where did you get that?" Upon hearing the name, whatever name or source it might be, the source is attacked by the HMW rep. That is how WELS observes the Eighth Commandment. If you want to stay in WELS, you need to have thicker-skin. The Church Growth leaders savage all their opponents, usually behind their backs. The former seminary president was "senile" for opposing amalgamation. Corky K. was "brain-damaged" for opposing Church Growth. Slick Brenner was a "legalist" for defending sound doctrine.

I am not exagerating to say WELS has been in complete doctrinal denial, now paying the price with insolvency and synod-wide distrust of the leaders.

I am waiting for one WELS leader to repudiate Fuller Seminary, Willow Creek, and the false doctrine imported from both natural gas factories.

I would like the Fuller alumni to admit their study there, instead of deceiving the membership.

Ichabod is not required reading, so anyone may avoid it if the blog displeases. So far I have not found another site where so much information about WELS-LCMS-ELCA-ELS can be found.

Comments are the writer's option. One blogger turned off the option altogether because of abuse, probably from LQ veterans and Synod Minders.

Another Belly Laugh for the Readers

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Fiend Flares in Anonymous Attacks":

By the way,
There are definitely more than one of us critics out there. I am one, since somewhere around August 4th. This will be somewhere around the 5th or 6th time visiting the blog and commenting each time. My comments have ranged from civil Christian encouragement to very hostile. They gradually got more hostile as I realized that the blog you run here really is a one-sided propaganda campaign, just as some of your other critics accuse you. (Of course, in your mind we are all one delusional follower of WELS.) None of my good comments or observations about synod leaders or decision made it onto your blog. Why is that? Too objective for you? Not venomous enough?

Only one poorly and angrily written comment of mine was posted by you. Why is that? So you can give the impression that all your critics are morons? Because we didn't go to Yale on daddy's ticket - only to find out that the Synod won't bow to us?

***

Brave Anonymous knows my motivation and even my finances, but he would lecture the masses on the Eighth Commandment. I borrowed the money to attend Yale and earn a master's degree. I worked. My wife worked. Even little Ichabod worked, albeit prenatally. After he was born at Yale-New Haven Hospital, where President Bush was also born, little Ichabod went with me to work at Yale Medical School. My parents did not pay for my education, as if that mattered.

I also worked and borrowed to finish a Ph.D. at Notre Dame. They were kind enough to give me a full scholarship, but I had to buy such luxuries as food, didies, and medicine. The facts will produce more outrage from courageous and contagious Anonymous, but I post his comments to let the public know how the synods are run.

The Tipping Point - Malcolm Gladwell

Seldom do I recommend a book hot off the shelves, but The Tipping Point is an unusual study. The author offers theories about why mass movements happen and why they stop suddenly.

The book has certain titles for people. I end up being a Maven, someone who collects and dispenses information. Another is the Connector, like EastCoast, who knows everyone - and I mean everyone.

The Synod Minder's plea for sources is amusing. I published a 650 page book with roughly 1500 references - Thy Strong Word. The book is being read all over the world. The book is posted free on the Internet.

WELS is still selling Liberalism: Its Cause and Cure.

Around 5,000 copies of Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant sold. The book is being reprinted now.

Unlike the people who run the "conservative" synods, I have a number of earned degrees in theology. That means I defended my ideas and research before people who were not my blood relatives and did not agree with me doctrinally.

I have attended many conferences and schools, so there is a good chance that I have met or listened live to people on various required reading lists: Laurens van der Post (Prince Charles' guru - long conversation with him), Billy Graham, James Kennedy, Paul Y. Cho (shook hands with him), Krister Stendahl (also worked with his son at Yale), Herb Chilstrom, James Crumley, David Preus, Robert Preus, Jack Preus, Herman Otten, Paul McCain (invited by him to the Purple Palace), Nils Dahl, Robert Wilson, Elie Wiesel, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon (shook hands with him), Chuck Colson (shook hands with him at Wheaton), and many laity and pastors from various synods. Two of my professors at Notre Dame (Schussler-Fiorenza) are in endowed positions at Harvard University. My ethics professors were the sainted Paul L. Holmer and someone he taught, Stan Hauerwas. Stan was at Augustana and is now at Duke. I knew him at Notre Dame. Experts say he is the leading theologian in America now. Hauerwas and the late Roland Bainton are my examples in publishing a lot everywhere. I knew Bainton at Yale, attended his lectures, and got his help for my dissertation.

I probably left out quite a bit. I am just saying that I enjoy being a Maven. I will never tire of it. When I post something, it is the result of a lifetime of research, publishing, and various theological conferences.

Fiend Flares in Anonymous Attacks

AAF has left a new comment on your post "The Wonderful One-Hoss Shay Bridge":

Dear Mr. Ichabod,

I am a recent reader of your blog. I think you're really on to something, but there is a term you keep using that concerns me. You often describe WELS headquarters as the "Love Shack"? Isn't that a reference to an illicit trysting place from a song by the B-52's? As a pastor, are you saying it is okay to use immoral song lyrics to point out corruption? In other words, does the end justify the means? Are you also saying it's okay to listen to that kind of music?

An Adoring Fan

***

GJ - This adoring fan sounds like the same guy again, full of accusations and falsehoods. Add a dirty and delusional mind. I quoted no lyrics from this group he seems to know too well. The Love Shack is my nickname for WELS headquarters because they talk about love so much and never show it to anyone but Fuller alumni.

----------------------------------------------------------

Vissaronavich has left a new comment on your post "The Wonderful One-Hoss Shay Bridge":

Again, to be credible, you need to cite your sources. I would be interested to see the approach, methodology, and conclusions of "the one study" that found as many "Lutherans" outside of the Lutheran church as inside it. Could you post a link or reference?

Thank you.

***

GJ - New name, but "again?" He has forgotten his cover. It is funny to see an anonymous person demanding that my blog follow his rules. The answer for that is to establish a blog and put your name on it, BraveHeart. The study is old, came from LCA/ALC sources, about 30 years ago. The situation is probably worse now.

-----------------------------------------------------------

PM has left a new comment on your post "The Wonderful One-Hoss Shay Bridge":

"Every group has a cult-like persona. Even the mildest comments threaten synodical infalliability, which must be maintained to promote synod worship."

Substitute "Greg Jackson's" for "synodical", and "Luther" for "synod", and the quote still applies. Notice that the word "infallibility" is misspelled. Is this a sign?

Even the mildest comments provoke an inordinately vituperous reaction from Herr Doktor on his precious little blog. Much like the street corner preacher who views the passing world as his audience, he becomes more vociferous when someone disagrees. Here is a challenge, dear Ichabod - can you make your case with specific, reasoned examples, rather than resorting to veiled references, ad hominem attacks, and your own brand of name-calling?

***

GJ - As my grandpappy used to say, "When the arrow hits the mark, the feathers will fly." All three posts sound remarkably alike.

Oh! Oh! I misspelled a word. Welcome to the world of publishing. I go over my posts three times, normally, always finding things to fix and clarify. No published book has ever been error-free. No one can edit himself successfully. I do not think an extra letter from my fat fingering is Freudian, but PM does.

The final sarcastic paragraph is a marvel. Why discuss an article when snide comments are so satisfying?

All three comments came in rapidly with three different anonymous "names." I posted them to show people how Synod Minders work.

The Wonderful One-Hoss Shay Bridge

According to Norm Teigen's blog, the Minnesota Bridge collapse is being blamed on an ELS member, Carol Molnau.

Finding Fault


That would be unfortunate, but typical, since government likes to have one person accepting all the blame. One engineer's study of the reports shows that the bridge was a wonder. What Kept the Rust Pile Up So Long? - should be the question, not - What Brought the Bridge Down?

What Brought the Bridge Down?

Mrs. Ichabod has always had an inordinate fear of bridges falling down. Every time she hears of one collapsing, she says, "See?" We often used the Zilwaukee bridge, which fell during construction, due to faulty handling of materials. We tried to avoid it when going to Saginaw. If we happened onto it, I would say, "Oh no. The Zilwaukee Bridge!" My wife's work at an engineering firm made her more conscious of potential disasters everywhere.

My first thought about the tragedy was that rust and poor maintenance were to blame for the I-35 bridge tragedy. I was more certain when they said de-icing equipment had been installed on the bridge. It doesn't take a slide rule to conclude that, after living in Minnesota and using that bridge.

I have always favored fixing a problem early, rather than ignoring it. Politicians would rather focus on glamorous ribbon-cutting ceremonies (their names on a bronze plate) than start boring repair work that snarls traffic. WELS ex-president Gurgel favored exotic and expensive foreign missions over school maintenance. Now he is an Asian missionary when he should have been sent to Saginaw to teach required English.
Justification for the expense of sending him? It's just a vacation! (Thanks, ELS Bad Boy.) Why be frugal and address a problem when "spicey breezes blow soft o'er Ceylon's isle?"

The same things have developed in the Lutheran Church. One or two Synod Minders (see the Fiends label) have tried to deflect people away from the issues with name-calling, the straw man fallacy, ad ignoratiam, and ignoratio elenchi. Do not worry, readers, I was trained in these in the Michigan District, where logical fallacies were daily discourse.

The synodical leaders (big, small, and micro-mini) share one thing in common, besides their love for false doctrine - incompetent management. They cannot help it. They won office by being politicians. They stay in office by being politicians. They have had success, using devious means and massaging every issue. Besides, people love liars. They do not want to hear the cost of facing the truth about apostate leadership. Every group has a cult-like persona. Even the mildest comments threaten synodical infallability, which must be maintained to promote synod worship.

Ralph Bohlmann used to write, whenever his leadership was questioned, "Satan must really be laughing now." I always thought, "Not until that letter was sent." I got one of those simply by stating why I did not join the LCMS ministerium. Like many other synodical politicians, he equated leadership with divine favor. Fidelity to God's Word was not an issue.

Maintenance of the I-35 Bridge and preservation of Lutheran doctrine are quite similar. Hundreds of little matters need to be addressed before disaster strikes. For 30 years the so-called conservative synods have gleaned their truth from ELCA (LCA/ALC) and Fuller Seminary. When pastors and laity should have addressed the issues, they cringed and trembled. A few objected and their cohorts let them get mowed down, whether they were fellow laity or brother pastors. Just as most of the hetero priests left to wed Sister Mary Immaculata, so have most of the faithful ministers and laity left the apostate synods to study and worship independently. Some are left, but it is more difficult each year.

One study showed just as many Lutherans outside of the church as were nominal members. In other words, half of all the people who define themselves at Lutherans will not go to a Lutheran church. I recall these outside-the-synod members did not attend anywhere.

I predict that the synods will collapse as surely as the Minnesota Bridge. The question today is - What is keeping the aging rust-piles up? Holmes wrote about a similar phenomenon, the end of New England Puritanism.

The Deacon's Masterpiece or The Wonderful "One-Hoss Shay": A Logical Story
Oliver Wendell Holmes (1809-1894)
"Have you heard of the wonderful one-hoss shay..."


Have you heard of the wonderful one-hoss shay,
That was built in such a logical way
It ran a hundred years to a day,
And then of a sudden it -- ah, but stay,
I'll tell you what happened without delay,
Scaring the parson into fits,
Frightening people out of their wits, --
Have you ever heard of that, I say?

Seventeen hundred and fifty-five.
Georgius Secundus was then alive, --
Snuffy old drone from the German hive.
That was the year when Lisbon-town
Saw the earth open and gulp her down,
And Braddock's army was done so brown,
Left without a scalp to its crown.
It was on that terrible Earthquake-day
That the Deacon finished the one-hoss shay.

Now in building of shaises, I tell you what,
There is always a weakest spot, --
In hub, tire, felloe, in spring or thill,
In pannel or crossbar, or floor, or sill,
In screw, bolt, throughbrace, -- lurking still,
Find it somewhere you must and will, --
Above or below, or within or without, --
And that's the reason, beyond a doubt,
That a chaise breaks down, but doesn't wear out.

But the Deacon swore (as deacons do,
With an "I dew vum," or an "I tell yeou")
He would build one shay to beat the taown
'n' the keounty 'n' all the kentry raoun';
It should be so built that it couldn' break daown:
"Fer," said the Deacon, "'t's mighty plain
Thut the weakes' place mus' stan' the strain;
'n' the way t' fix it, uz I maintain, is only jest
'T' make that place uz strong uz the rest."

So the Deacon inquired of the village folk
Where he could find the strongest oak,
That couldn't be split nor bent nor broke, --
That was for spokes and floor and sills;
He sent for lancewood to make the thills;
The crossbars were ash, from the the straightest trees
The pannels of whitewood, that cuts like cheese,
But lasts like iron for things like these;

The hubs of logs from the "Settler's ellum," --
Last of its timber, -- they couldn't sell 'em,
Never no axe had seen their chips,
And the wedges flew from between their lips,
Their blunt ends frizzled like celery-tips;
Step and prop-iron, bolt and screw,
Spring, tire, axle, and linchpin too,
Steel of the finest, bright and blue;
Throughbrace bison-skin, thick and wide;
Boot, top, dasher, from tough old hide
Found in the pit when the tanner died.
That was the way he "put her through,"
"There!" said the Deacon, "naow she'll dew!"

Do! I tell you, I rather guess
She was a wonder, and nothing less!
Colts grew horses, beards turned gray,
Deacon and deaconess dropped away,
Children and grandchildren -- where were they?
But there stood the stout old one-hoss shay
As fresh as on Lisbon-earthquake-day!

EIGHTEEN HUNDRED; -- it came and found
The Deacon's masterpiece strong and sound.
Eighteen hindred increased by ten; --
"Hahnsum kerridge" they called it then.
Eighteen hundred and twenty came; --
Running as usual; much the same.
Thirty and forty at last arive,
And then come fifty and FIFTY-FIVE.

Little of of all we value here
Wakes on the morn of its hundredth year
Without both feeling and looking queer.
In fact, there's nothing that keeps its youth,
So far as I know, but a tree and truth.
(This is a moral that runs at large;
Take it. -- You're welcome. -- No extra charge.)

FIRST OF NOVEMBER, -- the Earthquake-day, --
There are traces of age in the one-hoss shay,
A general flavor of mild decay,
But nothing local, as one may say.
There couldn't be, -- for the Deacon's art
Had made it so like in every part
That there wasn't a chance for one to start.
For the wheels were just as strong as the thills
And the floor was just as strong as the sills,
And the panels just as strong as the floor,
And the whippletree neither less or more,
And the back-crossbar as strong as the fore,
And the spring and axle and hub encore.
And yet, as a whole, it is past a doubt
In another hour it will be worn out!

First of November, fifty-five!
This morning the parson takes a drive.
Now, small boys get out of the way!
Here comes the wonderful one-hoss shay,
Drawn by a rat-tailed, ewe-necked bay.
"Huddup!" said the parson. -- Off went they.

The parson was working his Sunday's text, --
Had got to fifthly, and stopped perplexed
At what the -- Moses -- was coming next.
All at once the horse stood still,
Close by the meet'n'-house on the hill.
First a shiver, and then a thrill,
Then something decidedly like a spill, --
And the parson was sitting upon a rock,
At half past nine by the meet'n'-house clock, --
Just the hour of the earthquake shock!

What do you think the parson found,
When he got up and stared around?
The poor old chaise in a heap or mound,
As if it had been to the mill and ground!
You see, of course, if you're not a dunce,
How it went to pieces all at once, --
All at once, and nothing first, --
Just as bubbles do when they burst.

End of the wonderful one-hoss shay.
Logic is logic. That's all I say.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ELCA Giving Up

ELCA Assembly Receives Report on Financial Status of the Church
07-CWA-018-AL


CHICAGO (ELCA) -- The 2007 Churchwide Assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) received reports Aug. 8 on the financial status of the denomination and of the Mission Investment Fund of the ELCA.

The churchwide assembly, the chief legislative authority of the ELCA, is meeting here Aug. 6-11 at Navy Pier's Festival Hall. About 2,000 people are participating, including 1,071 ELCA voting members. The theme for the biennial assembly is "Living in God's Amazing Grace: Thanks be to God!"

"Over the past two and a half years, we have seen quite favorable financial results, including increasing operating income, increasing world hunger income and unprecedented giving to disaster response," said Christina Jackson-Skelton, ELCA treasurer.

In 2006 mission support -- unrestricted income from congregations through the 65 synods of the ELCA to the churchwide organization -- increased for the first time since 2001. Jackson-Skelton cautioned that "the level of increases is not yet sufficient to maintain the real value of our grants and other supports."

In contrast, she also highlighted generous giving to the ELCA World Hunger Appeal and Lutheran Disaster Response, noting that fiscal year 2006 saw "the largest single-year increase in World Hunger receipts since 1999" and that between fiscal years 2005 and 2006, an unprecedented $46.2 million was received for disaster response. Of the money received for disaster response, $31.8 million was designated for response to the Gulf Coast hurricanes, she said.

***

GJ - The treasurer is not related to Mrs. Ichabod, who does not hyphenate her name.

As always, the facts are fudged. No one fudges faster than ELCA. Income has always been less than the ALC and LCA budgets combined, before merger. Adjusting for inflation, ELCA income has gone down steadily since 1987.

The LCMS and WELS have been following ELCA's doctrinal lead, budget manipulations, and disastrous results for decades. WELS probably has the least amount of cash and credit to get by. All three have embraced Fuller Seminary and Romanism to some degree. ELCA and Missouri seem to be most likely to produce more Roman Catholic priests. WELS is closer to Baptist and Pentecostal worship and practice. The clergy learn this stuff in their seminaries.

Which denomination will ordain women next? Missouri is loudly promoting the move. WELS is quietly instigating the same measures.

CGM Dropout

We told friends we were taking someone to Grease. They were impressed. "Greece! That will be exciting." No, Grease. So I was inspired to write this parody. Sophisticates may wince at the quality of the verse, but the original was not exactly Shakespeare (as Oxford styled himself).

CGM Dropout - to the tune of Beauty School Dropout

Your story sad to tell,
A pastor ne'er do well,
Most mixed up non-Reformed kid on the block!
Your future is so clear now,
What's left of your career now?
Can't even get a job that’s worth a hoot!

Angels: (La lalala lalala lalala...)

CGM dropout,
Your handshake is like ice,.
CGM dropout,
A mistress would be nice.
Well at least you could have taken time, to fix and pad your vita,
After spending all that dough to go to Pasadena.


Reverend get moving (Reverend get movin),
Why keep your feeble hopes alive?
What are you proving (What are you provin)?
You're not loyal to the hive.

If you market what we have, you could be our new fool.
Forget the Book of Concord and go back to our School. (Fuller)

CGM dropout (CGM dropout),
Hanging around the conferences.
CGM dropout (CGM dropout),
It's about time you knew the score.

Well they couldn't teach you anything,
You think you’ve got a D.Min.
But no call will come to you unless you think and talk like vermin!

Reverend don't sweat it (Don't sweat it),
You're not cut out get a call.
Better forget it (Forget it),
Church Growth is all in all.

Now your Luther’s old, your Chemnitz’ bold, your doctrine is outrageous.
You still won’t get our nod until your parish is contagious!

Junior don't blow it,
Don't put my good advice to shame.
Junior you know it,
Even Valleskey’d say the same!

Now I've called the shot, get off the block, I really gotta fly!
Gotta be going to that beehive, in the sky!

CGM dropout (CGM dropout)
Go back to Fuller
CGM dropout (CGM dropout)
At least to Willow Creek
CCM dropout (CMG dropout)
Go back to Fuller.

Skunkpatch - LutherQuest (sic)

Norman Teigen has left a new comment on your post "Synod Minders in the Congregation":

Skunk Patch. I really like that one.

***

GJ - The reference is to LutherQuest (sic), aka SpenerQuest.

Rejoicing in Legalism

The old Synodical Conference (LCMS, WELS, ELS) had several doctrinal problems uniting them:
1. Universal Objective Justification - This is the fraud that God declared the whole world free of sin when Jesus died on the cross, without faith, without the Word, without the Means of Grace.
2. Receptionism - The elements of Holy Communion are not the Body and Blood of Christ until the believers receive them. This should be known as the doctrine of the efficacy of the hands.
3. Legalism - Instead of teaching God's Law, which prepares us for the Gospel, legalism splits hairs about everything and ultimately teaches salvation through the law, abeit man-made law.

All three errors are the bitter fruit of denying the efficacy of the Word, which was central to Luther's doctrine, the Scriptures, and the Book of Concord. The generation of theologians following the Concordists also made the efficacy the Word central to their teaching.

Let's look at the current state of legalism in the old Synodical Conference, now united once again - Oh Happy Day - through its work with ELCA.

Partners of the old Synod Conference spent an inordinate amount of time defining what they could and could not get away with. Legalism is wonderful that way. The farther they can get away from the Scriptures, the happier they are. Soon they are quoting the previous generation of writers, who become Holy Writ.

The new mantra is Outside the Framework of Fellowship. If I were to be invited to speak to a WELS conference, the hissy-fits would never end. But if Leonard Sweet, a liberal Methodist minister, teaches the Word to WELS, the occasion is Outside the Framework of Fellowship.

Martin Marty, once condemned by WELS, can address their college and their evangelism conference (Florida) because it is Outside the Framework of Fellowship.

They can work with John Nunes as the new head of Lutheran World Relief, even though Nunes joined ELCA after leaving an enormous LCMS scandal (his homosexual LCMS then ELCA organist murdering and burning an older lady). LWR is not concerned with gathering old clothes for the Third World. LWR is also involved in Left-wing political activism, but that is Outside the Framework of Fellowship.

Soon someone will ask for Outside the Framework of Fellowship to be studied by WELS. They will knit their brows, pick the most ecumenical of their apostate clergy, add one posturing conservative, and produce a statement of rare and precious casuistry. Whenever someone objects after that, they will cite their study.

Milwaukee locutus est, causa finita est. St. Augustine of Waukesha

Translation:The Love Shack has spoken, the case is closed.

Synod Minders in the Congregation

The synods only have power through the call system, simply because congregations let the synod officials bully them. A congregation can call anyone, but usually the parish surrenders all power to a synod hack who decides otherwise. The Missouri Synod is an exception. I have heard that some LCMS congregations have called a new pastor before the District Pope knew there was a vacancy.

Synod minders report to the synod, and pastors know it. One WELS pastor said his principal had reports of the voters' meeting at synod headquarters soon after it was over.

I was talking to a pastor who was friends with Herman Otten. We stopped at his church on a whim, just because it was unusual and very large. The pastor told me how much he liked my Church Growth articles. I was making additional comments against Church Growth when he made it very clear not to continue. Someone was nearby in the hall. So I changed the subject. The bigger the church, the more fragile the call can be, in these evil times.

My mother's LCA pastor mentioned being pro-life (about 20 years ago) at a meeting. Correction, his wife casually said something against abortion. This church had thousands of members, one of the largest in North America. The pastor was a real smoothy and popular. Nevertheless, he retired suddenly within one month. Was it the abortion remark? There was no hint of scandal and he was a good pastor, as LCA pastors go. (Today he would be hounded out of WELS for having a liturgical service.)

Synodical influence seems to work in only one direction. Most people think that a pastor having a father on a national board would help. Just the opposite is true. Daddy is on the board because he is known as a get-along-go-along guy. If his son starts to stray into mild dissent, the synodical officials pound the father. "Your son's career is in danger." The father pounds the son. "Your career is over if you associate with those trouble-makers." The son capitulates and proves his loyalty by betraying his conservative friends.

Synod officials are enormously destructive. If they spent as much time studying doctrine as they do with gossip and meddling, there would be a Lutheran Church today. When a WELS district Vice Pope was caught in adultery, the pastor who exposed the crime was bullied by another district Vice Pope. That is why they are called Vice Pope (or Vice President in deference to their high office). They are in charge of vice.

One seminarian of the Little Sect on the Prairie (ELS) wrote that Orvick and Peterson went around the synod, stomping out orthodoxy wherever they found it. Later, he denied saying this on LutherQuest (sic). So I reprinted his email. I was suprised he was studying at Bethany and writing for the SkunkPatch, as my WELS friend calls LQ, and I warned him about the consequences. Soon he was no longer at the seminary.

Little Sect on the Prairie officials are so worried that a thinking man might enter their seminary that they expressly forbid good students from being there. The shortage of pastors in America is not a problem. Soon there will be a complete lack of orthodox pastors.

Lutheran clergy are rapidly falling into two categories - Fuller/Willow Creek clones or Smells-and-Bells priests aching to join Rome.

If a minister is their buddy and enjoying a mistress, the synod officials deny knowledge of this and defend the bounder. If a DP is molesting children in his congregation, they let this go one for decades and never report his arrest to the synod. But they look for every opportunity to oust a minister who makes them unhappy for any reason. Everyone should get the same treatment and enjoy due process instead of Stalinistic show trials for dissenters. Clergy adulterers and molesters should enjoy a fair process before being tortured and hanged, whether they are conservative or liberal.

Surviving clergy are political. They say to themselves, "I will get no protection and no new call if I associate with the conservatives." Congregations say to each other, "Boo hoo. What will become of us if Pope John the Malefactor boots us out?" The result is an acceleration of corruption.

Still Cannot Read or Count

(Brom Bones)
I don't think you are capable of discerning intell... I don't think you are capable of discerning intelligent opposition - since anyone who disagrees with you is, by your definition, ignorant.

The quickest way to silence debate is by ridiculing those who disagree and refusing to provide an open forum for discussion. Oh, that's right - just what you've accused WELS of doing. Hmm!

(Brom Bones) 6:46 AM
Not sure how you decided that this means I can't r... Not sure how you decided that this means I can't read or count...Would you like to provide some concrete facts instead of opinion?

***

GJ: Cannot count - various people have posted in support of this blog, not just one.

Cannot read - see above. Count them up and read their comments. Several have used their own names. The Fiends (probably one guy) are anonymous. A WELS pastor's wife and a WELS professor's daughter have more courage than you. They wrote emails and signed their names. The professor's daughter called me a bunch of names and said I violated the 8th Commandment. I guess she was taught Church Growth Principles instead of Luther's Catechism.

Cannot read - part II. This is not a forum to provide anonymous juveniles the chance to name-call and use obscenities, as if that would prove WELS is perfect after all.

China - Fast Growing Christian Population

The Church Growth people should look at history. Christianity grows best while being persecuted. A famous ancient saying is, "The more you mow us down, the faster we grow," often translated more poetically as "The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church."

Protestant Christianity is an enormous force in the People's Republic of China.

Asian Times

Last month's murder of reverend Bae Hyung-kyu, the leader of the missionaries still held hostage by Taliban kidnappers in Afghanistan, drew world attention to the work of South Korean Christians, who make up nearly 30% of that nation's population and send more evangelists to the world than any country except the United States. This is only a first tremor of the earthquake to come, as Chinese Christians turn their attention outward. Years ago I speculated that if Mecca ever is razed, it will be by an African army marching north; now the greatest danger to Islam is the prospect of a Chinese army marching west.

People do not live in a spiritual vacuum; where a spiritual vacuum exists, as in western Europe and the former Soviet Empire, people simply die, or fail to breed. In the traditional world, people see themselves as part of nature, unchangeable and constant, and worship their surroundings, their ancestors and themselves. When war or economics tear people away from their roots in traditional life, what once appeared constant now is shown to be ephemeral. Christianity is the great liquidator of traditional society, calling individuals out of their tribes and nations to join the ekklesia, which transcends race and nation. In China, communism leveled traditional society, and erased the great Confucian idea of society as an extension of the loyalties and responsibility of families. Children informing on their parents during the Cultural Revolution put paid to that.

Now the great migrations throw into the urban melting pot a half-dozen language groups who once lived isolated from one another. Not for more than a thousand years have so many people in the same place had such good reason to view as ephemeral all that they long considered to be fixed, and to ask themselves: "What is the purpose of my life?"

The World Christian Database offers by far the largest estimate of the number of Chinese Christians at 111 million, of whom 90% are Protestant, mostly Pentecostals. Other estimates are considerably lower, but no matter; what counts is the growth rate. This uniquely American denomination, which claims the inspiration to speak in tongues like Jesus' own disciples and to prophesy, is the world's fastest-growing religious movement, with 500,000 adherents. In contrast to Catholicism, which has a very long historic presence in China but whose growth has been slow, charismatic Protestantism has found its natural element in an atmosphere of official suppression. Barred from churches, Chinese began worshipping in homes, and five major "house church" movements and countless smaller ones now minister to as many as 100 million Christians. [2] This quasi-underground movement may now exceed in adherents the 75 million members of the Chinese Communist Party; in a generation it will be the most powerful force in the country.

While the Catholic Church has worked patiently for independence from the Chinese government, which sponsors a "Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association" with government-appointed bishops, the evangelicals have no infrastructure to suppress and no hierarchy to protect. In contrast to Catholic caution, John Allen observes, "Most Pentecostals would obviously welcome being arrested less frequently, but in general they are not waiting for legal or political reform before carrying out aggressive evangelization programs."

ELCA To Study the Bible

ELCA NEWS SERVICE

August 7, 2007

ELCA Assembly Affirms 'Book of Faith' Bible-Study Initiative
07-CWA-010-JI


CHICAGO (ELCA) - The 2007 Churchwide Assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) today adopted "Book of Faith: Lutherans Read the Bible," a sweeping five-year initiative to boost study of the Bible throughout the 4.8-million member church body.

That initiative grew out of a 2005 proposal made by the ELCA North Carolina Synod to the ELCA Churchwide Assembly. The ELCA Vocation and Education staff developed the recommendation for action here.

The churchwide assembly, the chief legislative authority of the ELCA, is meeting here Aug. 6-11at Navy Pier's Festival Hall. About 2,000 people are participating, including 1,071 ELCA voting members. The theme for the biennial assembly is "Living in God's Amazing Grace: Thanks be to God!"

The recommendation, consisting of nine points, was approved Aug. 7. It stressed the importance of Scripture for believers "throughout the ages" (one of those points), and thanked the North Carolina Synod for proposing the initiative. It was adopted by a vote of 1,000 to 19.

The companion recommendation - expanded from eight to nine points after lengthy discussion - gives specific suggestions for ways to "invite and encourage all members, expressions, institutions, and partners of this church to commit themselves regularly and increasingly to hearing, reading, studying, sharing, and being formed by God's Word," the proposal said. It calls for use of existing resources and developing new material for use in studying the Bible.

Three other amendments to that second recommendation ultimately were defeated. The final vote to adopt was 956 to 93.

As the initiative came to the assembly floor, the Rev. Mark S. Hanson, ELCA presiding bishop, said it "invites this whole church to become fluent in the first language of faith - the language of Scripture; and to be renewed for lives of witness and service as the Holy Spirit engages us."

The Rev. Stanley N. Olson, executive director of the Vocation and Education unit, said that "Book of Faith" is "designed to remind us of the power of God's Word. Join the conversation that God initiates," Olson urged.

Olson introduced Dr. Diane Jacobson, a professor of Hebrew and Old Testament at Luther Seminary, St. Paul, Minn., and newly named director of the "Book of Faith" initiative. Jacobson will devote half of her time to the initiative.

Jacobson told the assembly, "The vision of the … initiative is this: that the whole church become more fluent in the first language of faith - the language of Scripture - in order that we may live into our calling as a people renewed, enlivened, and empowered by the Word. … The fulfillment of this vision depends on all of us."

At a news conference after both recommendations were approved, Olson likened the "Book of Faith: Lutherans Read the Bible" proposal to the Lutheran Reformation - "not a rehash of various Bible-study programs the church has used over the years, but a "renewal growing out of the Word."

Olson said that like the Reformation, the initiative will be "foundational," and directed to all ages and all aspects of Christian life.

Jacobson said that a main point of the initiative is to "study Scripture as the primary source about itself," with "more people reading the Bible more often, at all levels of this church."

Beth A. Lewis, president and CEO of Augsburg Fortress, the ELCA publishing ministry, told those at the news conference that Augsburg "has some resources in the works" that can be used in the "Book of Faith" initiatives, with "many more planned," for both print and electronic media.

***

GJ - Stan Olson and I were in the same Greek exegesis classes at Yale. His wife became a pastor. Strangely, he also served as a pastor in New Ulm, People's Republic of Minnesota. Coming from the ALC side of the merger, Stan officially welcomed joint communion services with the Reformed, which was David Preus' (ALC cousin of Robert Preus) passion and goal.

Missouri and WELS should feel calmer about all their joint work and joint meetings with ELCA, because ELCA is going to study the Bible.

Besides, they all attend the same seminary. Not Luther in the Twin Cities - Fuller in Pasadena.

From a Man Who Actually Uses His Own Name

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "This Poor Guy Cannot Read, Cannot Count":

Thanks, Mr. Brom Bones, for crediting me as a regular contributor. Oddly enough, Ichabod is the first and only blogspot that I consider worthy of commentary. I am not a big fan of "flaming" on blogs. I always remember what G.K. Chesterton once said - "Men quarrel because they do not know how to argue."

***

GJ - I have not allowed or posted Fiend comments that are even more derogatory than the ones I published already. I will post some silly, negative comments just to show the public how degenerate the visible Lutheran Church is. For those who want to roll in the dirt with dogs, there is always LutherQuest (sic).

Intelligent opposition is welcome, even if it is anonymous.

LemKeel Again - On MLS

Lemkeel said...
I can't believe it (though I'm not surprised) that Mark Schroeder LPS president is going to be WELS new president. He, in my opinion, is a large part of the problem, not the solution. His job was in jeopardy (president of prep) and so he started campaigning for new presidency, this time of the synod, and he put together a bunch of nonsense to make it look like he knew what he was talking about, and the people who don't use their brains said, "Hey, he's made a bunch of points, he's obviously thought about it and we haven't so let's elect him president!" These same people don't want to lose MLS, but have no idea why it should stay open and don't know how to think, and they're the majority in the WELS so... The Wisconsin Synod is about to downward spiral into self-destruction more so than it is. With Wayne Mueller elected Pres., there was hope because he actually knew what was going on and had a vision for the future of WELS. Mark Schroeder is going to put the synod in a worse condition than it already is. I can't wait.

August 1, 2007 1:08 PM
Anonymous said...
I would assume that this indicates that MLS will definitely receive enough votes to stay open? Wasn't Schroeder a huge proponent of keep MLS open?

I thought LPS was in much better shape financially than MLS. Is this not the case (lemkeel, I assume you are an alumni of LPS ?)

August 1, 2007 7:58 PM
Lemkeel said...
Yes, I graduated from LPS. My thinking was that if MLS closes, LPS would eventually follow. If people are willing to lose one prep school, the other one is likely to follow shortly thereafter. LPS is in about the same financial shape as MLS, except there's slightly more students enrolled at LPS. However, there currently aren't enough students enrolled at LPS to meet the financial needs to maintain the school, hence the tuition increases. Both schools take funding from the synod budget each year, but because enrollment is down in both schools, the schools themselves are hurting due to lack of tuition funds. Additionally, because the synod is in debt they're looking for ways to make cuts, and prep schools should be the first to go. Mark Schroeder for the past few years has been involved in fund raising activities at LPS, a bad sign. He realized that his role as president of Prep was in jeopardy simply because he knows that his job in a prep school is dispensable (able to lose synod functioning and/or close) much more so than the college or seminary. That's what I was implying...

Not Everyone Keen about MLS

Lemkeel said...
This is disappointing. You'd think the delegates would strongly consider the WELS CFO's warnings against keeping MLS open or funded by the synod... but they came into the convention already with a decision. They listened to the many letters and phone calls of the parents of the prep schools and decided to let their emotions make the decision. The irony here is that the delegates voted to keep MLS open with the thinking that the synod's problems would begin to be resolved. In fact the problems are going to get worse. By voting to keep MLS open or continue to receive synod funding, the delegates only delayed the inevitable. MLS will eventually close or lose synod funding, and LPS will soon follow. The fact is that enrollment will NOT increase in either prep school because tuition is too expensive. The money that goes into the prep schools should be diverted to the college to encourage enrollment there by reducing the cost of tuition for students. It's cheaper to go to an instate university to be a teacher/pastor where in fact the students get a more well-rounded education. I have no idea how parents can afford to spend 25K for each of their kids at prep and then 50K for each kid at MLC. That is ridiculous, or should I say ludicrous.

***

GJ - I am assuming this is a WELS layman.