Rolf Preus Cannot Comprehend His Father's Last Book, But He Says ELDONA Will Not Listen

"I am metaphor - Rolf Preus logic."

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Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8536 Registered: 5-2001	Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 5:18 pm:       I have several volumes of theological works by 17th century Lutherans translated and/or published with the help of James Heiser. He was a very promising theologian. His fall into error on the central article of the Christian religion should serve as a warning to all of us. Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. Pastor Rolf David Preus
Erich Heidenreich, DDS (Erich) Senior Member Username: Erich Post Number: 1284 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 5:34 pm:       I have several volumes from Repristination Press as well. My favorite is Gerhard's History of the Suffering and Death of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. My comment about the name of the publishing house was not meant as a condemnation of its valuable work. Indeed, Pr. Preus, we all should beware of falling into error. We all do!
Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8537 Registered: 5-2001	Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2015 - 5:52 pm:       One of the problems in marking and avoiding everybody and his grandmother is that you lose the assistance of brothers to lead you back into the truth when you start veering into error. The ELDoNA wouldn't listen to anybody. Pastor Rolf David Preus

LCMS Synod President Harrison Co-Chairs Event With ELCA Bishop Elizabeth Eaton, Dedicated Radical. LCMS and Thrivent and ELCA and WELS/ELS

Some thought this Photoshop was too much,
but Harrison, Schroeder, and Pope John the Malefactor
are clearly Elizabeth's bootlicking toadies.
Name the Christian articles of faith violated in this odious foursome.

Matt Harrison and Elizabeth Eaton Co-Chair a Gala Pan-Lutheran Event

LCMS Concordia System, ELCA, and Thrivent - And All of You Suckers - Name Thrivent Fellow

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"No bishop ever misses a meal
or hears the truth."

When Matt Harrison was elected, with the furtive help of Paul McCain, the LCMS convention gave even more votes for continuing their relationship with ELCA.

So there is no contradiction, Missouri wanted another Kieschnick, and they got another Kieschnick. I have more respect for Kieschnick,  because he did not elevate Herman Otten's mole and reward him with millions in pay from the cash-strapped CPH customers.

Jay Webber, ELS, bought his online STM
from an ELCA professor/businessman,
who owns the Lutheran Institute of Theology,
but the ELS gives me the stink-eye. Ha.

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Mr. Bean is giving LCMS-WELS-ELS-ELCA the stink-eye back.

GJ - I found the new ELCA to be so repulsive and disgusting that I left before the merger took place, suffering a large loss of income. But God provided, as He promised.

Unfortunately, in spite of their pious claims, WELS and ELS and Missouri are delighted to work with ELCA and lap up funds from Thrivent, which is not only pan-Lutheran but pan-religious and secular besides. If readers would take advantage of the published reports of Thrivent, they would see:

• Thrivent is not a good deal for them.
• Thrivent gives away millions of  to enhance its image with all kinds of secular causes. So that money is simply promotional, not benefiting Holy Mother Sect at all.
• If Thrivent runs its system the way AAL did, then the local regions are effectively uniting ELCA-WELS-ELS-LCMS at the congregational level. Clearly that has been true at the national level for decades (AAL and Lutheran Brotherhood both).

From ChurchMouse - Sick Soil after WWII - Thanks to Man-Made Cures for Soil

ChurchMouse:

As elated growers applied more nitrogen, it bound up with calcium in the soil which, in turn, produced weak cell walls in crops. Insects then arrived to eat the less-than-optimum plants. Growers then applied petrochemical-based insecticide which killed the pests — along with micro-organisms necessary for good, nutritious plants. Further nitrogen applications burned the decomposed plant matter necessary for any other micro-organisms to exist.

More at this link.

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GJ - I was going to write about leaving the leaves alone when ChurchMouse published this.

If we believe in Creation, it only makes sense that letting God's design take over will produce better and healthier results than using stinky, obnoxious, toxic manufactured chemicals.

Man-made chemicals seep through the soil and enter the water table. Organic amendments - like leaves and wood mulch - are held in the root zone by a vast array of fungi and soil creatures. The foundational work is microscopic and largely ignored or not appreciated. The larger creatures, like earthworms, take over from the beneficial work of protozoa, bacteria, and fungi, and enhance what is being done at the microscopic level.

I want the leaves to accumulate along the fences - free mulch and fertilizer. I want the leaves to coat all three rose gardens. The leaves will look like trash in the spring, wet and soggy, but disappear into the soil and birds' nests. I pile up leaves under the Crepe Myrtle bush, repeatedly, in the fall. I have almost nothing left under the growing bush in the spring, when flowers begin to form, and I have the best flowering Crepe Myrtle in our neighborhood.

We collect vast amounts of cardboard, newspapers, and wood mulch, and use them all. Our goal is not to rake up leaves and haul them away, but to grab our neighbor's work and add it to the compost pile, the rose gardens, and the sunny tomato garden.

Pine needles are a pain until blueberries are planted. Then they are a way to keep the weeds down and the acid level up, just what blueberries want.

More Hilarity from SpenerQuest - The Gang Who Can't Think Straight. Pondering How Lutherans Could Fall So Far into Justification by Faith

Luther - how could you? Changing from Roman monk
to Biblical Christian!

Simon Reynolds (Simon) Member Username: Simon Post Number: 175 Registered: 1-2005	Posted on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 6:50 pm:       How odd that these individuals who make up the anti-objective justification clique once sat in the same seminary classrooms, heard the same lectures, and read and studied the same Scriptures and confessional writings as their former colleagues, and yet never raised any objection to the teaching of objective justification at that point in time. Surely they had an obligation to voice any concerns they might have had before accepting a call to be a faithful servant of the Lord Jesus. [GJ - Some people continue to study and grow, unlike the LQ denizens, who keep repeating their seminary dogmatic notes.] So what happened? I suspect that an unhealthy, loveless suspicion of the orthodoxy of their brethren, like a creeping rot, set in. This may have been fueled by some unwise, overreaching expressions of objective and by individuals who have unwisely uncoupled objective justification from subjective justification. In the wake of suspicion I suspect that gradually the spirit of arrogance gain a foothold. Is there anything more poisonous than arrogance? Is there any apple on which a person is more likely to choke than the notion that I know more than you do? [GJ - We should all study "love" from the UOJists! I read LQ for laughs, as poorly educated Universalists glory in their superiority. The typical layman in any denomination knows Christian doctrine better than these blokes.] All of this is mere speculation. Perhaps speculating on the “why” of this issue isn’t a particularly helpful undertaking. It could be that the exact cause(s) of this abandonment of the teaching of objective justification lie hidden with God.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 5965 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Monday, November 02, 2015 - 7:13 pm:       Simon Reyonlds: Surely they had an obligation to voice any concerns they might have had before accepting a call to be a faithful servant of the Lord Jesus. So what happened? This question also gets asked whenever an ordained member of the Missouri Synod swims the Tiber or Bosporus. Another question is: How does the seminary interview and evaluate students to determine if a student has Lufauxran doctrinal views that he is trying to conceal? For example, some levels of government security clearances include undergoing a polygraph test. Have seminaries ever done polygraphs on 4th year seminarians?
Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8530 Registered: 5-2001	Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 9:32 am:       It is possible that men graduate from the seminary without seriously considering everything they are taught and then, after graduation, are confronted with theological issues they treated lightly while at the seminary. They fall under the good or bad influence of other pastors. The fellow who heads up ELDoNA is a strong personality, quite bright, and persuasive. ELDoNA has a sectarian type of atmosphere about it wherein one finds it difficult to dissent from the tribal consensus. [GJ - LQ is a conclave of mini-popes, stomping their crosiers and yelling Anathema sit! Anathema sit! Anathema sit! The Spenerites agree with the divines of the Council of Trent, because they also condemn justification by faith. Therefore, LCMS seminarians are trained to become Roman Catholic priests.] How to explain the defection from the truth on the part of the pastors of ELDoNA? It is extremely difficult to take a stand against the only truly trustworthy and orthodox men in the world. The tribal character of these more orthodox than thou groups ensures that when an error captures the leadership it will soon infect the whole membership. [GJ - Irony abounds. Missouri began as a sex cult led by a syphilitic bishop who demanded total obedience from CFW Walther and Company - and got it - until the clap broke out among the young women and Walther got his chance to lead a riot, steal the bishop's land and gold, and take over. Missouri's current UOJ is Stephan's UOJ.] Pastor Rolf David Preus
Erich Heidenreich, DDS (Erich) Senior Member Username: Erich Post Number: 1280 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 11:28 am:       This is true. However, in some cases, these tribal errors do cause further division of the group into even smaller tribes, or cause a lone dissenting congregation to simply become independent. I also see some of the same tribal effect you are talking about happening in the larger synods. This tribal mentality is not limited to micro-synods, though it is perhaps stronger and also easier to recognize in these small groups. Still, this tribalism even happens among the smaller cliques and groups within the LCMS. In the LCMS, open dissent from the "official" teaching of synod is tolerated. This is well and good for those who hold proper orthodox positions not reflected in official synod teaching. However, it forms small groups that police their own pet doctrinal positions in much the same way these micro-synods do, even if the groups are more loosely defined than actual micro-synods are, because they still have fellowship with those they believe are in error.
Erich Heidenreich, DDS (Erich) Senior Member Username: Erich Post Number: 1281 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 11:38 am:       I would be interested in hearing what you believe the differences are between the ministry issue that happened in the ELS and the OJ issue that happened in ELDNoA. Is it necessarily true that dissent in ELDNoA was more difficult because of its size, or simply less likely? Even so, was not the leadership in the ELS just as big of a bully, and perhaps even harder to resist for some because of the larger numbers who fell into ranks behind the leadership? [GJ - Holy Father Rolf, please explain some things for us.]
Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 8531 Registered: 5-2001	Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2015 - 1:09 pm:       You raise some interesting questions, Erich. There is a tribal aspect to the various cliques one finds in the Missouri Synod, but it is also possible to be partly in and partly out of a particular tribe, and to move from one tribe to another. In the smaller synods, the synod is the tribe. There will be dissent and quarrelling to a degree, but when the group speaks as a group you line up behind them or you leave. Not so in the LCMS. In the LCMS you fight on. I don’t know the men of the ELDoNA well enough to know if any of them have reservations about ELDoNA’s attack on objective justification. I recall vividly how a significant portion of the ELS that had rejected the WELSian position for years, quickly fell in line behind it after it became clear that the ELS would adopt it. When I publicly took issue with it after it became official I broke a cardinal rule: I publicly displayed disloyalty to the tribe. From ELS President John Moldstad, Jr.'s perspective, he had no choice but to exclude me, due process be damned. The integrity of the “orthodox synod” will be compromised if an articulate opponent of the official stance can remain within the tribe. I’m pretty sure it's the same with the ELDoNA. In the Missouri Synod we have no tribal consensus. We are stuck with an unresponsive bureaucracy in which due process becomes a barrier to doctrinal discipline. But consider the Becker case. Terry Forke prevailed and Becker is gone. Stick-to-itiveness sometimes works in the long run. In the tribal system, due process is given at most lip-service. Defenders of the integrity of the tribe generally view it with suspicion and distrust. Pastor Rolf David Preus