ICHABOD, THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED - explores the Age of Apostasy, predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, to attack Objective Faithless Justification, Church Growth Clowns, and their ringmasters. The antidote to these poisons is trusting the efficacious Word in the Means of Grace. John 16:8. Isaiah 55:8ff. Romans 10. Most readers are WELS, LCMS, ELS, or ELCA. This blog also covers the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the Left-wing, National Council of Churches denominations.
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Friday, October 30, 2009
Please Waste Your Time Posting about Wasting Your Time Reading This Blog
Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "What Are They Larning at Mary Lou College? Not Muc...":
Everything I've heard about the outrageous nature of this blog has proven true. I don't see why people waste their time day after day reading the opinions of people who liken the MLC students to Arians because they made a childish video.
Discipline at Mary Lou College
In case you do not want to watch this abomination, the video begins with the Luther statue flinging the Bible away. Later, one of them curses. By the way, that was denied by MLC partisans, but the audio is clear.
The MLC students keep defending their gay video by attacking anyone who finds a Fire Island clone offensive. The lack of supervision at the college is evidenced by the statue video still being on YouTube.
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peterka14 (8 months ago) this is great...
GO MARTIN LUTHER COLLEGE!
(My mom works there!) ^.^
... awesome!
imunderoath5 (1 year ago) wow, my teacher graduated from martin luther college
I <3 the WELS. moelikeduh (2 years ago) Reply haha the end was funny... lol I liked it!
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Kenneth Schmidt has left a new comment on your post "What Are They Larning at Mary Lou College? Not Muc...":
What I found most annoying about this little scandal was not that a bunch of twentysomething WELS Lutherans decided to do something foolish, but that dozens of their classmates and friends immediately lept to their defense like a momma bear protecting its cubs. This is so typical of the clubby, old-boy network that one finds in the Missouri and Wisconsin Synods. Its not restricted to semi-mature undergrads either. I can't tell you how many times, as a layman, I have heard things like " Old such and such can't be a heretic because we were drinking buddies at 'insert name of seminary or teacher training college here'" If you go to the right seminary or have powerful friends you can set yourself up and the new Arius and anyone who says anything negative about you will be shouted down and vilified.
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GJ - That is exactly how Richard Krause (DMin under Larry Olson's supervision) defended Larry Olson - "I drank a lot of beer with him at the sem!"
PS - Firefox and I offer free editing - if I agree with the post. If not, ur on ur own.
Someone Asked This Question - What Is Wrong with Church and Change?
Church and Change was organized and funded to move WELS completely into the doctrinal errors of the Church Growth Movement. Church Growth began at Fuller Seminary once anti-inerrancy was made official doctrine at the school. Donald McGavran, from the left-wing Disciples of Christ, C. Peter Wagner (Pentecostal Baptist), and Win Arn were the three major figures in the beginning. Bill Hybels (Willow Creek Community Church, Chicago area) gained fame a little later.
Fuller and Willow Creek (not to mention Trinity, Deerfield) are the main places where CG gurus in WELS have been trained. The pastors in the domestic mission board and the world mission board were trained at Fuller. From the beginning, evangelism has been entirely Church Growth - both at WELS headquarters and the seminary. The parish consultants were trained at Fuller to be consultants: Larry Olson, Jim Huebner, Paul Kelm.
Various seminary professors were trained at Fuller - David Valleskey and Frosty Bivens. I am sure others were, but I do not have their written confessions...yet.
Any Lutheran should have enormous problems with a significant portion of their ministerium trained at a schools where the faculty teach against the authority, inerrancy, and efficacy of the Word.
Worst of all, these CG gurus have lied about their training and doctrine.
So Wisconsin Lutheran College started Charis. I think Charis ran the symposium where Waldo Werning (Who's Who, CG) and Kent Hunter (Who's Who, CG)--both Fuller trained--were the main speakers. That was canceled and all the CGers pouted and fumed.
Charis started Church and Change with a grant from WELS. I am not keen about synod bureaucracies, but demi-semi-independent parachurch groups pose even more danger. Who supervises? In this case, the synodical bosses and Changers overlapped, with Bruce Becker as a synod administrator paid way too much money by WELS and also a board member of Church and Change. One entity promoted and defended the other entity, and board members saw opportunities to advance their business interests in WELS: fund-raising for a fat commission (Jeff Davis) and socking the devil in the jaw (Brian Arthur Lampe).
Ski is no longer listed as a board member. He must be too busy attending monthly conferences led by false teachers - and leading conferences for WELS.
Church and Change has sponsored programs and national conferences to advance their own agenda. Sadly, the previous three synod presidents (Naumann, Mischke, Gurgel) lacked the doctrinal discernment to see through the CGM. Naumann endorse the nascent movement when TELL began under the toxic leadership of Ron Roth. CG ran rampant under Mischke and Gurgel.
The three State of Wisconsin District Presidents swoon for Church Growth, too.
Many of the Changers are stealth leaders. Don Patterson is a good example. He tries to deny it, but his own agenda was revealed when he organized a group of WELS workers to attend the Exponential pan-denominational conference. When John Lawrenz (another stealth member) promoted the agenda on the top-secret C and C listserve, Patterson responded - "Pure gold."
The Changers make sure they are all funded, at the expense of genuine ministry efforts. But the real problem of the group is their false doctrine and unionism, which go hand-in-hand. One influences the other.
I have quoted the Changers extensively, and they hate it.
I have also quoted Luther and the Book of Concord against CGM, and the Changers hate that too.
Even more, they loathe the clear Scriptural passages that utterly refute their false doctrine and identify them as they are - wolves in sheep's clothing, blind guides who argue that we can indeed pluck figs from thistles.
I will be quoting Luther and others this weekend, in honor of the Reformation.
To find out more about both sides of the issue, click on the label "Quotations," which I normally use for quotation collections.
Thy Strong Word has plenty of information, too.
I would not recommend any "conservative" Lutheran seminary at this time. They are all in the bag for Fuller or the Church of Rome, or both.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Someone Asked This Question - What Is Wrong with C...":
Where would you suggest one study for the public ministry? Are there any good options outside of the Concordias, WLS, and Bethany?
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GJ - There are no Lutheran seminaries left, so there are no good options.
What Are They Larning at Mary Lou College?
Not Much, As Evidenced by MLC Posts
Justin has left a new comment on your post "More Cluelessness and WELS Grammar:Girls Just Wann...":
Since it was meticulously copied from another video, GJ has the right to think "Party in the MLC" isn't original, humerous, or amusing.
The students' biggest mistake was to post the video to a forum in which it could be viewed by too many people who are able to take it as an accurate representation of MLC, the WELS, or anything else that it isn't.
Unlike GJ or most people who post to this blog, I was present when the students decided to film this video, and when they played it at homecoming, and when they posted it to youtube, and when they took it off youtube. Because I was there, I can say that none of them even knew that the people in the original video were homosexuals. Homosexual connotation was never thought of during the making of the video.
The students' didn't do their homework about the original video, and I will inform any reader that the homosexual nature of the video was inferred by people who wanted to find a problem with it. Quite frankly, GJ and those here who masquerade as concerned Christians troubled by the students' sins seem to be a bit too giddy over their newest opportunity to hatefully slander others on the internet.
I know every one of the members of the video well. Go ahead and call them naive or immature, but reserve the judgment of their character for those who have known them for longer than it took you to watch the video on youtube--even if you watched it several times.
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GJ - Those cool, campy athletes at MLC are not very smart if they missed the implication of Fire Island Pines - Party in the FIP. They did not meticulously copy the original. They made it even worse.
I just had a phone call from someone who uses his real name. He was disgusted by the Party in the MLC video and glad they finally took it down. He said, "Where is the college president?"
Justin did not use his complete name. His friends better muzzle him before he posts even more sophomoric wisdom.
WELSians are so thin-skinned. They pretend to be perfect, which is their burden from Pietism, but if anything is pointed out that contradicts the pose, they get extremely nasty.