Theologians of the Augsburg Confession

Melanchthon was the primary author of the Augsburg Confession,
because the papists still wanted to kill Luther.

This anniversary of the Augsburg Confession reminds us that the Formula of Concord writers considered themselves "theologians of the Augsburg Confession."

I went to Augustana College, which was built by the Augustana Synod because the Swedish Americans wanted a school to train future pastors according to the Book of Concord. When Mrs. Ichabod and I went there in the 1960s, most students did not know the Augsburg Confession or why the college was named the way it was. One quip was that it was named after August and Anna, and some believed it.

The Augustana pioneers began as unionistic Pietists, but they were soon betrayed by American sects and religious frauds. Passavant drew the Swedes into his confessional circle in the General Council. Some key figures in the synod moved Augustana (the synod and the school) toward orthodoxy. That slipped away in time, preparing a body of 400,000 Lutherans to join the Lutheran Church in America.

The Syn Conference treats the Book of Concord as a joke. I know there is a lot of pious talk about the Confessions, but that does not translate into an actual witness to the truth. One must identify and repudiate false doctrine in order for sound doctrine to be taught and maintained. No synod does that today. They cannot even admit that most of their leadership is heavily invested in Church Growthism, with ample rewards still being given for aping Fuller, Willow Creek, Mars Hill, Granger, Northpoint, and Leonard Sweet.

The Syn Conference went Methodist a long time ago. Gimmicks replaced the Gospel and the ministers all became Rev. Friendly with the warm smile, weak handshake, and vapid sermonette. As one Fuller DMin said, if Jesus came back today, he would have a talk show. He would entertain people.

The Pietists du jour are deeply offended that I dare publish such things. Jesus would never say anything like "white-washed sepulchers full of dead men's bones." I guess he did. The Pietists want to mention Jesus while taking away the bridge to Jesus, the Means of Grace. They unleash the monster of uncertainty by parading their works, by selling works as the way to prove one's relationship to the Savior. No wonder so many turn into loud-mouthed atheists.

Today should be a day of mourning until the Syn Conference leaders start showing the faith and courage of the Augsburg Confessors. What do we risk today? Loss of money and insults? Yes, but little more than that. Why are people so fearful of false teachers yet unafraid of Almighty God?

KJV Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? 2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

NIV Isaiah 66:1 This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be? 2 Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "This is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word. [The NIV is provided for graduates of St. Louis, Ft. Wayne, Mequon, Mankato, and various portable seminaries of the mini-micro sects.]

Luther to George Major:

"It is by your silence and cloaking that you cast suspicion upon yourself. If you believe as you declare in my presence, then speak so also in the church, in public lectures, in sermons, and in private conversations, and strengthen your brethren, and lead the erring back to the right path, and contradict the contumacious spirits; otherwise your confession is sham pure and simple, and worth nothing. Whoever really regards his doctrine, faith, and confession as true, right, and certain cannot remain in the same stall with such as teach, or adhere to, false doctrine; nor can he keep on giving friendly words to Satan and his minions. A teacher who remains silent when errors are taught, and nevertheless pretends to be a true teacher, is worse than an open fanatic and by his hypocrisy does greater damage than a heretic. Nor can he be trusted. He is a wolf and a fox, a hireling and a servant of his belly, and ready to despise and to sacrifice doctrine, Word, faith, Sacrament, churches, and schools. He is either a secret bedfellow of the enemies, or a skeptic and a weathervane, waiting to see whether Christ or the devil will prove victorious; or he has no convictions of his own whatever, and is not worthy to be called a pupil, let alone a teacher; nor does he want to offend anybody, or say a word in favor of Christ, or hurt the devil and the world.” F. Bente, Concordia Triglotta, Historical Introductions to the Symbolical Books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 94.

Honk

"We Have Not Hit Bottom Yet" - Rogue Lutheran

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Worship with the Babtists - By Ski and WELS Worker...":

Rogue Lutheran skillfully documents the current progression of the New Age Emergent Church apostacy (WELS, ELS, LCMS, ELCA) it demonstrates that the Lutheran churches have yet to reach the bottom of their slide away from Christ.

http://www.roguelutheran.com/RL/Home/Entries/2010/6/21_2nd_generation_OBR__Tactical_High_Performance_Cells,_Church_Plant_Mvmt.,_and_Systematic_Self-Abasement..html

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WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post ""We Have Not Hit Bottom Yet" - Rogue Lutheran":

The Parlow, Ski, and Andy Stanley episode was documented by Ski himself. How much more proof do synod officials need. Folks, the officials have seen the documentation. Prof. Deutschlander was a witness! One would be interested in any official statements he made concerning this. Pictures, documentation, and Confessional Retired German Professors don't lie!

In Christ,
from WELS church lady

Worship with the Babtists - By Ski and WELS Workers

Ski's personal motto: "In order to reach people no one else is reaching
we must do things no one else is doing." Craig Groeschel

Parlow at Drive 08

Babtist Andy Stanley and Lutheran Ski
Both hide their denomination.
It is better that way.
Really.

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Angry Pietists Fighting for Their Lives Or Their F...":

- We went to 11:00 AM church. Andy wasn’t even there. North Point has three campuses (They have truly embraced the multi site ministry philosophy.) and he was preaching live at Buckhead. The music was great. Todd Fields is their main music guy and he is phenomenal. The worship atmosphere is always interesting to me. At times it seems that it is almost more like a concert than a worship service, but the people were enjoying worship.

At North Point they have more of a topical or series style of preaching (much like we do Sunday night). Andy was in week two of a series called “Faith, Hope, & Luck”. His printed material is first class. The look of the bulletin look was all about gambling. What I mean is that the artwork had neon signs, slot machines, and dice. It just looks like some serious time was spent on it.
Andy’s message focussed (sic) the million dollar question what is faith? The sermon was about 40 minutes, and in summation he said faith is trust in Jesus. One of the best sermons that I have heard Andy preach.
After worship Buske and I headed down...
http://web.me.com/pastorski/Site/Day_2.html

- After we registered we headed to the 5 Seasons for lunch. While we were there we heard this voice behind us at a table. Well, we turn around and sure enough there at the table is my old German teacher, Prof. Daniel Deutschlander sitting & eating bratwurst & drinking a beer. As it turns out he is speaking at the Peachtree Conference (I think that is what it is called - WELS churches in the ATL - Tennesee - Alabama area). He asked if we were down for his presentation. I had to say unfortunately, no. The conversation was pretty interesting after that. I mean, telling your old prof. that you are in town, not to hear him is bad enough, but on top of that you are in town to attend a non-denominational church leadership conference... Not normal WELS practice

- They ended the first (opening) session with some kick butt music (for Jesus of course).
http://web.me.com/pastorski/Site/Day_3.html



- The gist of his session was that what happens in the home has a greater influence on the spiritual life of children than what happens at church.

- The final Main Session with Andy Stanley was just phenomenal. We began with awesome worship. Today though, they began with a Christian rapper, Toby Mac. Our school kids would have loved it. I’m not sure that they would have believed that it was church though

- Be looking for some cool stuff that we will be implementing at St. Marcus, especially in Sunday Night
http://web.me.com/pastorski/Site/Day_5.html

Drive Conference 2009 - Dance - Session 2! from John on Vimeo.
Proof that dancing does not necessarily reduce hip size.

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WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post ""We Have Not Hit Bottom Yet" - Rogue Lutheran":

The Parlow, Ski, and Andy Stanley episode was documented by Ski himself. How much more proof do synod officials need. Folks, the officials have seen the documentation. Prof. Deutschlander was a witness! One would be interested in any official statements he made concerning this. Pictures, documentation, and Confessional Retired German Professors don't lie!

In Christ,
from WELS church lady

Lillo Denies Blogging

Greg,

You can't imagine how my heart fell when I saw my picture at the top of your blog this morning. I didn't read the whole post so I'm not sure what the jist of the thing was. A couple of people wrote me, though, and said that I had been "outed" as Anonymouse. They said something about a MAC OS X lighting up Appleton whenever Anonymouse would post or some such thing. I can assure you, that that's not me. I use an HP PC. I don't even know the first thing about running a MAC. I also have absolutely no idea who Anonymouse is.

Steve Spencer said I should contact you directly, that you're not that bad a guy once a person corresponds with you. We'll see.

--Joel Lillo

Angry Pietists Fighting for Their Lives Or Their Funds

Spener is their man -
I have it on good authority.

Angry and bitter. Those words have been tossed around by many an anonymous comment writer - or the same writer... repeatedly. The Amen Corner chimes in every so often.

Now that WELS has a non-polemical blog, with real names on the masthead and real names in the comments, a new picture emerges.

The angry, bitter Lutherans are the Shrinkers. I may just call them the Stinkers from now on, because they stink up every blog they are on. Their emails are vile and abusive, too.

At some point they are so clearly separated from Lutheran doctrine and worship that a parting must take place. Either they will win, and Lutherans will leave, or they will depart in anger and disgust.

Ski and Katie came from the Jeske Synod (aka Church and Change) to set up yet another Money Changer operation in Appleton. Fox Valley had plenty already, but this was a new scheme to burn up money while moving a few members around.

The attributes of the Jeske Synod are clear to everyone. All their training is with false teachers and yet they want to teach everyone in their current synod, WELS. The favorite teachers for Ski, Katie, Glende, Parlow and others are Babtists.

Ski loved worshiping with the Babtists - along with Parlow, Glende, and about six other WELS workers.

His photos and blog are still posted. As the old crick-jumper used to say, "Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes?"

Here it is -

http://web.me.com/pastorski/Site/Drive_08_%26_Journal.html

Who Went That you Might Know?

Pastor Ski - St. Marcus - Milwaukee

Pastor John Parlow - St. Mark - Depere

Pastor Jim Buske - Lighthouse Youth Center - Milwaukee

The defense rests its case, Your Honor.

Fox Valley Statistical Report Needed

Ron Ash, chairman of the Church and Money Changers

Church Growth is the fear that made Milwaukee famous. Yes, WELS was scared witless about losing members, and they imagined the Babtists could bail them out.

WELS Pastor Time Glende, who took over for Ron Ash at St. Peter, Freedom, Wisconsin, confessed that he was using Craig Groeschel material 24/7 because he was afraid of the congregation dying.

Ski, his buddy or co-pastor, is also using Groeschel 24/7. Them Mequon grads really know their stuff, don't they?

After Lillo had served a WELS congregation in the area for many years, Ash took over as a retirement pastor in the same congregation. That sounds like the congregation really boomed under the leadership of a Shrinker (Lillo), just as another one did under the Head Shrinker (Ash at St. Peter).

My question is - Has anyone looked at the circuit's statistics over the last decades, to see its explosion in numbers? That would be important, because these guys are always touted as the great experts. Ski speaks all the time - in the Jeske Synod meetings, at Mary Lou College,at Church and Change conventions, and at Northern Wisconsin meetings.

I am glad the anonymous Appleton blogger keeps drawing attention to his tender CG toes, because everyone is looking at Fox Valley now, to see the wonders performed by Church and Change.

After looking at the statistics, why not put the circuit through colloquy and see if any Lutheran pastors are left? That should include the notoriously inept praesidium, headed by Doug the Unready.

Fox Valley Leaders
DMin John Parlow, Denver Babtist Seminary.

DMin Steve Witte, Gordon Conwell Babtist Seminary. In a fierce disciplinary action, WELS promoted this founder of Church and Change to a full-time position on the WELS Asian board for world missions. Harsh? You betcha.

DMin Paul Calvin Kelm, Concordia Church Growth BM Program, St. Louis. Not to be outdone by the Witte persecution, WELS gave Kelm two calls at the same time so he could choose which one he wanted. Brutal.

Ski and Glende
These two WELS pastors have set a record in attending anti-Lutheran conferences, with Tweets leaking out about Drive conferences (Andy Stanley - Babtist), Mars Hill (Mark Driscoll), Catalyst (Stanley and Craig Groeschel), and Granger Community Church.

Fake Ichabod Posts Again

Profile picture, fake blogger.

The fake Ichabod got on his Mac for another post. How many pathetic, badly written blogs can one WELS pastor produce? Not many. He posts a little, quits, comes back, posts again, etc. The latest post sounds like another goodbye message, but one never knows.

He is very worked up about his precious UOJ being attacked. UOJ and Church Growth go together like measles and mumps.

The Anonymouse blog also quit, but we are supposed to think these are different people.

Some people have noticed the published nastiness of WELS Pastor Joel Lillo on Intrepid Lutherans, also evidenced on Ichabod, and proposed Lillo as the blogger. Lillo seems to adore The CORE, the Church and Money Changers.

The funny thing is - people have proposed about six different names from Appleton as the fake, anonymouse blogger. Church and Change has a deep bench in Fox Valley. I understand there may be a Lutheran pastor or two left. Ron Ash - thy work is not yet finished.

The CORE is known for using Macs, but that does not prove much. Anyone can switch from one to another, and anyone can claim, "I don't own a Mac." WELS pastors are so well schooled in lying that an official denial is almost as good as an affidavit swearing the opposite. Remember Wayne Mueller's "There is no Church Growth in WELS"?
Recall Gurgle telling people "If amalgamation costs more than $8 million, we will pull the plug"?

Most people find it illuminating that WELS Church and Money Changers must hide and lob their stinkbombs in order to combat criticism of their false doctrine.

Bishop Katie
Someone asked, "Where did Bishop Katie go and why?"

She has a blog:

http://cautiouscreative.com/

I did not find much information on it. But now, at least, she has a few more readers.

Katie is promoting another conference: http://www.storychicago.com

The featured speakers are heavily salted with Mars Hill and Willow Creek. Leonard Sweet is speaking.

I forgot to ask Katie to give us the dirt on Dirt.

One syllable conferences are growing in number, probably due to the attention span of the target audience.

Drive and Dirt are OK, but Story is a bit long. I suggest Tale or News.

April of 2009

Class of 1989, The Sausage Factory

Original Post

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Fifty WELS Pastors Still Think Highly of Luther":

Is it acceptable to leave a post with the name anonymous if you are simply embarrassed to be reading this web page? I feel the tone of this page is similar to the feeling of juicy gossip; "It feels good to talk about people and pretend to be able to read their hearts and know their faith from across the internet."

***

GJ - It is appropriate for WELS apostates to communicate their sanctimonious concern anonymously. In fact, most of their work is done through making snide and slanderous remarks behind the backs of their fellow-pastors, their very own classmates: "brain-damaged, senile," etc.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comment Department":

Memo
From:Gregory (The Pot) Jackson
To: WELS Pastors (The Kettle)

Message: I can't believe how black you are.

I remember when you were a colloquy "student" at WLS in 1988/1989. You walked around like you were God's gift to WELS. Have you found a church body that is small enough for your intolerence, yet big enough for your ego?

***

GJ - Typical Sausage Factory stuff. I wonder why people are not lining up four-abreast to join this group.

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Eltothe Izzeye Eleltothe Izzo has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comments Department":

O.K. I've identified myself. You can easily figure out who I am if you have a WELS Yearbook and a basic knowledge of hip hop nomenclature.

First, to define a term: Tolerate -- Put up with something even if you don't like it (I tolerate smokers in public places, but I don't like the smell of their smoke).

What would I tolerate? (I can't force anyone else to tolerate these things, but I tolerate them.) I tolerate Lutheran ministers who worship in a contemporary style. I actually prefer a blended style of worship, but I tolerate contemporary style.

What don't I tolerate? I don't tolerate false teaching of any kind. I don't tolerate the watering down of true teaching of any kind. However, I don't see WELS pastors who use contemporary styles of worshp as necessarily compromising doctrine. If I saw evidence of this happening. I would speak out against it.

It seems like so many who post here (and I've only been visiting since yesterday and won't be back after Sunday) find pastors using contemporary styles in worship and then start looking for false doctrine. Every variance in wording is seen as heresy when there just plain isn't any heresy there.

O.K. I've said my piece and I won't be posting again because I find this a monumental waste of time and energy when there are souls beyond our care who are dying and we are doing nothing but arguing about style.

Oh, and there's this: "The future is yours. At least until the moon darkens, the sun no longer gives it's light, the trumpets sound and Christ returns to judge the quick and the dead. Not much of a future but it's yours while the prince of this world feeds his church with the carrion of false doctrine." That sounds more like Spurgeon or some other "Babtist" than it sounds like the writings of a Lutheran.

Eltothe Izzeye Eleltothe Izzo's audience

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Jeru the Damaja has left a new comment on your post "Sanctimonious Comments Department":

In case anyone cares at this point, the person posting above is Pastor Joel Lillo of Trinity (Appleton, WI).

Since he won't be posting again, I figured his sole post should be cited.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "April of 2009":

Attributed to Pastor Lillo, Oh, and there's this: "The future is yours. At least until the moon darkens, the sun no longer gives it's light, the trumpets sound and Christ returns to judge the quick and the dead. Not much of a future but it's yours while the prince of this world feeds his church with the carrion of false doctrine." That sounds more like Spurgeon or some other "Babtist" than it sounds like the writings of a Lutheran.

Since he's quoting my statement I thought I provide the Scripture to show it's not what Pastor Lillo thought it sounded like:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I still stand by that statement. More than can be said for most of the apostates who dare to write down their confessions.

***

GJ - Tis funny how Lillo is always dropping one last stinkbomb before parting, his absolutely last post ever. His last blog ever (several times ago, too).

How Times Have Changed - 1998

What is this woman saying? Post a comment.

District Convention News, 1998

Northern Wisconsin

Joel Lillo

World missions: We heard from Richard Russow from Albania and Pieter Reid from Indonesia. Both had been forced to leave their work because of civil unrest. These missionaries remind us that the work of carrying God's Word to the world can be dangerous, but rewarding.

Merger: By a near unanimous vote, the delegates approved the merger of the Northern Wisconsin District Institutional Ministries with the institutional ministries of Madison Institutional Ministries, Inc. and Wisconsin Lutheran Institutional Ministry, Inc.

Called worker shortage: Delegates were urged to communicate more actively the need for young men and women to prepare for the privilege of full-time work in the public ministry.

Convention paper: Wayne Mueller, administrator of the Board for Parish Services, presented "What Do We Mean, Jesus Is the Lord of the Church?"

Too Evil To Pass Up

The Church is Immaculate and Indefectible

April 22nd, 2010

After each campaign of attacks against her, the Church always emerges stronger and more splendorous than before

Msgr. João Scognamiglio Clá Dias, EP

The barrage of reports which, in recent weeks, has attempted to stain the Catholic Church, using the abuses of children committed by a portion of Catholic priests as a pretext, has reached an inconceivable climax.

Bent on fanning the flames, various agencies of social communication have delved into the past, in search of new allegations involving the Vicar of Christ on Earth, Pope Benedict XVI, in which, however, they have roundly failed.

That there are disordered and unworthy priests, no one can deny; that horrible abuses have been committed, and certainly even in a number greater than recorded, must be acknowledged.

But to use the very grave, yet isolated offences (sic) of a minority of clerics to tarnish priests at large, is an injustice. And to employ this as a guise to attempt to overthrow the Church is diabolical.

However, the more the Church is infiltrated by the libertarian, relativistic and neo-pagan spirit of our age, the more it may be feared that crimes of paedophilia will occur. From this stems the need to implant a rigorous selection system in seminaries, so that only those who do not have a propensity to conspire with the world, but who want to teach the practice of Catholic doctrine in all its purity and to serve as an example may be admitted as candidates to the priesthood.

The present publicity campaign against the Church undermines a truth of which history provides an unequivocal testimony: it was the Catholic Church that freed the world from immorality, and it is because the world is rejecting the Church that it has once again sunk into the mire from which it was rescued.

***

GJ - Brushing aside his ill-chosen words, I have to point out some of the biggest errors in this infallibly written post.

1. Rome has never recovered its splendor. The Reformation gored the beast of the papacy, and the monster remains mortally wounded.
2. The Church of Rome has been notorious in its scandals, which lately have been world-wide for the last few decades, but under-reported.
3. Before and after the Reformation, the popes have often been known for their disgusting behavior, greed, and corruption. "Borgia pope" is considered the gold standard of immorality and corruption.
4. The papacy has always had a problem with homosexuality. Luther said the people worshiped the cardinals as gods if they were satisfied with a woman.
5. Very few of the priests have been pedophiles, interested in pre-adolescent children. Most of them have been homosexuals and a minority of them have been involved in heterosexual scandals. See #4.
6. This prelate repeats ELS Sem Prez Gaylin Schmeling's warning that dealing with scandals "hurts the face of the church." That is why the scandals will continue. Luther said - When bad is good and good is bad, nothing can be done.

Problems with Infallibility and Holy Mother Church - Indefectibility

This is the best version of the Book of Concord.

Long ago and far away, a pope resisted the first attempts to impose infallibility on his office. The reason was - crafty clergy wanted to bind him to the previous decision of another pope. He refused infallibility.

Later, the misnamed Pope Pius IX took on the mantle of infallibility and even tried to cure people miraculously.

WELS, Missouri, and the Little Sect on the Prairie are in a bind they created for themselves. They have adopted an attitude of infallibility.

Furthermore, they have sided with the Enthusiasts in several major areas of thought.

One is Universal Objective Justification, which came from Halle Pietist George C. Knapp.

The other is another natural consequence of Enthusiasm - the Church Growth Movement.

Mequonites, Betha-knees, and Missiourians think they can tame the Calvinism of CGM, but they cannot even grasp what Calvinism is. They prove that every time they open their yaps.

They confuse inside-the-sem talking points with actual doctrinal studies. Their talking points always conclude, "And that is why we are the greatest, the best, and the purest. And we always have been, too."

They prove their belief in their own infallibility because, like Rome, they point to their man-made church body as the assurance of salvation. They do not trust the Gospel in the Means of Grace for a nano-second. When two different denominations have to use Satanic billboards and Satanic sex education to get people's attention, they have already surrendered to the basest form of marketing. What's next - a picture with an arm around Katy Perry or a Playmate?

Calvinism is Enthusiasm, and Pietism is re-warmed Calvinism.

The Church of Rome also teaches it is immaculate and indefectible. You will catch the irony if you read the first few paragraphs.

The Church of Rome never errs, thanks to the Holy Spirit, but the Scriptures are rather vague and difficult to follow.

Does that sound familiar? It is WELS doctrine. The Wisconsin Sect cannot err, but there are many g-r-e-y areas of Scripture (stretch out grey for the genu-wine WELS affect). Because the Scriptures are so grey, WELS pastors need to interpret them for the lowly laity. And, because the Scriptures are so grey, WELS can change doctrine as often as the Florida coast changes oil.

Not one WELS leader has admitted the doctrinal errors taught the last decades (not to mention UOJ). Ditto Missouri and the ELS.

Every so often, some Shrinker wakes up from the Night Before and posts a comment, asking, "And do you think you are perfect? Have you ever made a mistake?"

All I contribute is an effort to point people to the efficacious Word, the best theologians, and the Confessions.

The satire and polemics are extras I throw in for entertainment. Chemnitz has hilarious asides in Examination, but the Shrinkers would never know that.

I do not have to insist I am perfect, because I prefer the perfect, clear, effective Word to the bedlam of Enthusiastic rah-rah.

The laity express Christian doctrine far better than the MDivs and DMins, because the members do not have to remember contradictory talking points from seminary. When the laity have questions, their abusive clergy yell, "I am the expert. Do not question me!"

I do not know why Lutheran pastors are joining Rome. Lutherans are already more popish than the pope. Lutheran cover-ups of scandals have been far more effective than Rome's too. Why leave a winning team?

Luther Rocks

Joe Krohn (LutherRocks).

Extra Nos:

LutherRocks said...

Lito,

You make a great testimony regarding this that is hard to argue against.

Before I ran across Ichabod almost two years ago I never heard of UOJ. As I have studied this it doesn't serve scripture well by interchanging justification with atonement. And the more UOJ is defended, the more discombobulated it gets and I don't believe this is good for the body of Christ. (For example the WELS pastor Buchholz' paper) The Gospel is simple as Jesus meant it to be; so simple a child like faith is saving faith. Now if you understand when a proponent of UOJ speaks of UOJ he means the atonement I can live with that as long as that's what he means; although it is not prudent use of the English language. To me, and it always has been, Christ died for the sins of the world and makes it possible for salvation but this is only received through faith; hence cometh justification, righteousness and sanctification. I cringe when I read point #1 under Justification in 'This We Believe' in the WELS.

"1. We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ. This is the central message of Scripture upon which the very existence of the church depends. It is a message relevant to people of all times and places, of all races and social levels, for "the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men" (Romans 5:18). All need forgiveness of sins before God, and Scripture proclaims that all have been justified, for "the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" (Romans 5:18).

To me what is said contradicts scripture as the passage says at the end of the point...yes it is one act of righteousness and it is justification but it says it brings life; it makes it available; it does not justify before faith. It has become my opinion that the way WELS uses Romans 5 it is taking it out of context. In the very first verse of Romans 5 Paul says therefore since we have been justified by faith so it is already in context. He is talking to believers already. I think it would go far to throw out this term 'UOJ' and do some re-writes.

Now does all this UOJ contribute towards CGM? I don't know. I suppose that is fodder for another blog post. I do know that we constantly fight against our sinful flesh and the enthusiasm that we can partake in our own salvation and that of others. This is most certainly not true.

Peace,
Joe

8:17 AM

Pietism Rollbacks

I have noticed that the people escaping ELCA are looking for an older version of the same denomination, perhaps going back to the LCA of 1987 or the ALC version a little earlier.

Here is a hoot for everyone. Some come-outters want to send their future pastors to ELCA seminaries, even though they are leaving ELCA.

One of the earlier groups, during the Terror (1987 merger), voted on sending the candidates to Fuller Seminary!

The come-outters will have women's ordination, it seems, an ideal place for Herman Otten's sister, Marie Meyer to preach.

The American Lutheran church bodies all came from Pietism - Missouri, WELS, ELS, LCA, ALC, and earlier versions.

If they do not reject and repudiate Pietism, they will always go return to the Universalism and apostasy that Pietism breeds.

Rollback Pietism means the "No gay pastors" rule, at least "No out of the closet gays" quickly becomes Neo-Pietism. The Lavender Mafia Neo-Pietists condemn anyone who resists ordaining a man/woman after a sex change operation. The Neo-Pietists are just as sanctimonious as the Pietists - they just change the orientation of the Law.

The success of the Church Shrinkage Movement in WELS/Missouri/ELS has come from its affinity to Holy Mother Synod. The Pietists of the Syn Conference recognized themselves in the Pietistic law of Fuller and Willow Creek:
1. God wants His church to grow.
2. We must have cell groups to grow.
3. Anyone who questions this is a reprobate sinner, a lazy miserable cad who deserves to be kicked out.

Have the Syn Conference leaders had a problem with Fuller? No, not at all. They look down their noses at ELCA, for public consumption, but gallop over to joint projects, joint ministry, joint evangelism, and joint worship with ELCA. Pietism loves Pietists. ELCA is Pietism, Class of 2010. WELS is Pietism, Class of 1850.

What Must Be Repudiated?
To avoid the Slough of Pietism, Lutherans must denounce and repudiate Enthusiasm, its crafts and assaults, its temptations and pitfalls.

Enthusiasm separates the work of the Holy Spirit from the Word. The essence of Pietism is the cell group, the lay-led Bible study, prayer, care, koinonia, or affinity group. Lie down with Pietists, get up with Enthusiasm.

Why Does a Real Education Burn Up the WELS Shrinkers?

The University of Notre Dame

Yale University's Sterling Library

I was wondering why the Shrinkers rage against my education. I remembered several episodes, which are typical of WELS pastors. The laity should know that the seminary does have any academic requirements or final tests. In 1987 they did not issue grades, but apparently kept secret grades. The reason, they explained, was that anyone could graduate in the old days.

When people dared to question the feminist creed in the dreadful WELS hymnal, the defense was, "I am an expert in Greek, and this is what the Greek means." Since few laity have ever studied Greek, that was the equivalent of - "Do you dare arouse the wrath of the Great and Terrible Oz?"

Few WELS pastors are more than adequate in Greek, although it is commendable that they are expected to know more than the average seminary dolt in America. The actual reason for the feminist creeds in the WELS hymnal is the passion of James Tiefel for apostasy. The creeds were adopted from a unionistic, Left-wing commission full of non-Lutheran mainliners of questionable doctrine and sexual orientation. WELS did not have to - WELS wanted to, itched to, panted and slavered to adopt the feminist language. The pastors fell in line because they are expected to do so. They are afraid of sticking out, even if the WELS heresiarch Ted Hartwig was the guy who defended the feminist creeds to the hoi polloi.

Back to the subject - WELS expertise and other laughable claims. Some WELS pastors are genuine scholars in various topics. If you want to find them, get a piece of string and start out at the far end, as far as possible from the headquarters, where the liberals are densest. I hesitate to blacken any reputations by saying something good about a pastor and naming him. I know they are out there.

Most WELS pastors are not expected to know much beyond WELS canonical law, which includes their claim of superb education. I mentioned one episode, above, which I witnessed, my jaw slack in horror at the arrogance and stupidity of the pastor. Browbeating does not prove expertise.

One of the WELS Shrinkers recently yelled at a lawyer, "I have eight years of higher education in theology," or words to that effect. I do not have a videotape, and if I did, the Appleton Dumpling Gang Circuit would say it was Photoshopped.

A lawyer has a superior education, compared to a WELS pastor, because a lawyer is in school just as long and must pass the bar exam. Moreover, a lawyer worth his salt has studied argumentation and logic. The use of rhetoric is directly related to our Western heritage of democracy, literature, and law. One cannot separate those academic fields very easily because they go back to the golden age of Athens, about 2400 years ago.

Many WELS pastors list seminary as "graduate school" on their web biographies. Really? Try to teach at a university on an unaccredited MDiv (Mequon) or even with one from an accredited institution. When Sparky Brenner tried to earn a PhD at a state university, they were so impressed with his education that they made him take a remedial year first.

There are more reasons why WELS pastors go nuts over talk about a real theological education. The Shrinker leaders have DMins from a hodge-podge of Schwaermer schools: Larry Olson, Fuller!; Paul Calvin Kelm, Our Lady of Sorrows; Steve Witte, Gordon Conwell; John Parlow, Denver; Rich Krause, Ohio Consortium of Dying Liberal Theological Schools - mentor Larry Olson, DMin.

The DMins call themselves "Dr." and refer to their degrees as doctorates. A DMin consists of a few courses and a paper, so no one considers it a doctorate. The degree name was made up to earn money for seminaries in promoting continuing education. It was a successful marketing ploy.

I was fortunate to study under a number of world-famous theologians and Biblical scholars, in addition to studies at Ft. Wayne and Mequon. I also attended many theological events, where I heard such Protestant leaders as Billy Graham, Paul Y. Cho, D. James Kennedy, Pat Robertson, and Jack Hayford. The fact remains - I have a unique perspective on the American religious scene, one a bit broader and deeper than going to a WELS parochial school, enduring years of hazing, and graduating with a degree in Reformed theology from Mequon.

Most of my work at Notre Dame was in comparative dogmatics. I just checked - Church and Change still cannot spell comparative correctly. We studied the differences between the main Christian confessions, which led to Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant.

I have noticed that opposition from Shrinkers consists of anonymous snarkiness and unsupported accusations. That is why their arguments crumble so quickly. If they had to argue their case in court without evidence, a judge would gavel them into silence. No wonder they love to post and blog anonymousely.

---

wildcard (http://wildcard.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Why Does a Real Education Burn Up the WELS Shrinke...":

Education threatens to expose them as fakes, phonies, and frauds.

Studying at Mequon.
The student who did this is a Changer in the ELS now.

Layman Endorses Time of Grace, But Maybe Not

John has left a new comment on your post "Another Baby Step for a Man, One Giant Leap for Mi...":


The CPH website says this: "Pastor Mark Jeske brings the Word of God to viewers through his outreach media ministry Time of Grace."

One cannot argue, at all with that statement.

Time of Grace is truly "his" ministry, as evidenced by the fact that he fails/refuses to inform viewers/listeners on how to learn more from their local WELS/ELS congregation/pastor. They are directed only to him and Time of Grace.

---

John has left a new comment on your post "Another Baby Step for a Man, One Giant Leap for Mi...":

I'll stick with my TREASURY OF DAILY PRAYER, and PORTALS OF PRAYER for my personal/family devotions, thank you.

Thy Strong Word Is in Production

By Norma Boeckler

My editor is cheerfully getting Thy Strong Word ready for Lulu.

Mentor Kujath used to say at NPH. No, he shouted, "Everyone needs an editor. I don't care who you are!"

He was right.

This will bump the other waiting books into the Lulu website, too: Liberalism and Jesus Priceless Treasure.

---

Garrett has left a new comment on your post "Thy Strong Word Is in Production":

I would love to see UOJ discussed on Intrepid Lutherans. Yet I've seen some of the opposite of Brett Meyer.

Fact: There is a lot of fingers-in-ears syndrome concerning justification in WELS: some refuse to call it UOJ, some demand it be called UOJ, and some have never heard it called "universal objective".

But among each of those three groups there are pastors/teachers that teach the false doctrine, and there are pastors/teachers that teach the truth.

It was little surprise to see the poll on Intrepid Lutherans reveal concern over a "deeply divided" synod.


...and before I forget: Huzzah! for the coming of Thy Strong Word to Lulu.

---

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Thy Strong Word Is in Production":

UOJ is still all the rage and will continue to be so until Christ returns.

It would be interesting to see if Intrepid Lutherans care to address the doctrine of UOJ on their (W)ELS blog site. It would be a worthwhile effort while the book is in progress. UOJ is (W)ELS' central doctrine and the very foundation of their religion. So far there may be disunity in regards to the teaching of the pure Word and rightly administering the Sacraments but there is full and complete unity around the false gospel of UOJ.

The Two Funniest Comments Ever Posted on Ichabod

ONE

Unsigned, from Anonymouse:

"You are a gutless coward."

Everyone laughed at him.

TWO

This just in:

bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Another Baby Step for a Man, One Giant Leap for Mi...":

Relax. Jeske's just going to the CPH bookstore to tell them why they should leave the LCMS to join the WELS.

Another Baby Step for a Man, One Giant Leap for Missouri

Jeske denies basic Biblical doctrine in the video on this page.

Christian Television Host and Author to Appear in St. Louis-Based Bookstore

Meet the Author: Pastor Mark Jeske for a Time of Grace in the Concordia Publishing House Bookstore on June 25

06.23.2010 – St. Louis, MO—Work, laundry, dishes, and children often leave little to no time for devotions. Many find themselves wondering how they’ve gone so long without personal time with Jesus. To help, Concordia Publishing House has released Time of Grace by Pastor Mark Jeske.

Time of Grace is filled with “Bible studies for busy people” in the hope that these short meditations will soothe the soul, give encouragement, and provide hope for tomorrow. The dominant theme of each devotion is grace—the amazing promise of Scripture that God chooses to love unlovely people.

This new resource makes it easy to start or end the day right with devotions that are relevant, timely, and applicable. Note lines are provided for the reader to write thoughts and reflect on what was read.

Friday, June 25th, enjoy a thought-provoking devotional and a book signing with Pastor Mark Jeske. The event takes place at 2:00 pm in the Concordia Publishing House bookstore (3558 S. Jefferson Ave. St. Louis, MO 63118). Take an afternoon break and start your weekend off right with God’s Word.

Pastor Mark Jeske has served as the senior pastor at St. Marcus Lutheran Church, in Milwaukee since 1980. He has written a Bible commentary (General Epistles, People’s Bible Commentary) and more than a dozen daily devotional booklets. Pastor Jeske is also an accomplished instrumentalist, historian, teacher, cultural enthusiast and media outreach leader.

Time of Grace is also a 30-minute Bible study that delivers straight answers about the concerns of daily life, based on the Gospel. Watch Time of Grace on KDNL ABC Channel 30, Sundays at 7:30 am CST.

Recommit yourself to prayer and meditation today with Time of Gace or give the devotional companion to someone you love.

Visit cph.org to order your copy, or call 1.800.325.3040.

News Facts

• An accomplished instrumentalist (piano, but also guitar and mandolin, among others), Pastor Jeske enjoys touring with his church’s regionally known choir, United Voices of Praise. He especially appreciates jazz, blues, and gospel music.
  
• Pastor Mark Jeske has been bringing the Word of God to viewers of Time of Grace since the program began airing in late 2001.
  

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Mark shows how Schwaermerisch he is, a real Enthusiast.
Just as he avoids the odious word Lutheran,
he also avoids the Means of Grace,
and hints at Pietism's UOJ.
"Jesus is what makes the Gospel happen." - Pastor Mark Jeske.
"Error loves ambiguity."- Professor Charles P. Krauth.

The Syn Conference Is Too Gutless To Say This about Fuller Seminary

Something is terribly wrong with this photo.
Can you see it?
Conservative Lutherans cannot see what is wrong
with Church Growth and its eructations.

Evangelicalism Now Reaping What It Has Sown

Published June 23rd, 2010 by Ken Silva in American "Christianity",
Contemplative Spirituality, Emergence Christianity, Emerging Church, False Brethren, False Prophets

I remember a few years ago a brother pastor rightly pointing out that evangelicalism never really renounced its humanism, which is why the horrid Church Growth Movement vomited out of Fuller Theological Cesspool Seminary could take root.

Now in this new article I explain how contemplative spirituality, which is but a romanticized version of Roman Catholic mysticism, was used by the wolves in the Emerging Church to now capture the mainstream of nearly spiritually comatose evangelcialism.

Sadly, this contemplative fad going on within pretending to be Protestant evanjellyfish is a spiritual version of snake handling.

It takes a closer look to reveal the ugliness.
Just like Church Growth.
Am I being abrasive? Am I being undiplomatic?
All I did was turn the warped photo upside down,
for a closer look.
Some call this research.
Maybe a haiku.

Can the Babtists Say This about Holy Baptism?

Stop quoting Luther.
Quote Leonard Sweet.

Living with Luther

"There is no greater comfort on earth than baptism. For it is through baptism that we come under the judgment of grace and mercy, which does not condemn our sins but drives them out by many trials.

"For this reason no one should be terrified if he feels evil lust or love, nor should he despair even if he falls. Rather he should remember his baptism, and comfort himself joyfully with the fact that God has there pledged Himself to slay his sin for him and not to count it a cause for condemnation, if only he does not say Yes to sin or remain in it. Moreover these wild thoughts and appetites, and even a fall into sin, should not be regarded as an occasion for despair. Regard them rather as an admonition from God that we should call upon God's mercy and exercise ourselves in striving against sin, that we should even welcome death in order that we may be rid of sin."

(The Holy and Blessed Sacrament of Baptism, 1519, Luther's Works, Vol.35, page 34,35)

Posted by Rev. Fr. Spencer at 7:28 AM

Kelmed from The Gadfly

It Could Get This Bad: Rap Motion at Southern Babtist Convention

Why does this ham switch to Black lingo for his rap motion?

A Black comic said this, some years ago. "You white people want to dress like us, walk like us, talk like us, dance like us, and rap like us. Everybody wants to be Black until the police arrive."

WELS Contrition Reeks of UOJ: Appleton Blogger, Gay Video Stars, Al Just, Ed Werner, Fred Adrian, Etc.

Add a few jabs to every heart-felt apology,
just to show the brethren you never meant it.
They will appreciate what you really meant. Wink.

For those outside the Wisconsin cult - "brethren" means fellow pastors.

The Appleton WELS pastor--who started and stopped his anonymous blog in one day--is another good example of WELS contrition.

I am glad he has not erased his posts on vomit and toilets. Notice his typical WELSian eye-pokes, where he blames me for his own miserable posts. Yes, I held a gun to his head and forced him to reveal the blackness of his vindictive soul. The problem with that scenario is - I do not know who he is.

UOJ teaches them they are already forgiven. That gives WELS pastors leverage in alcoholism and adultery. Sig Becker was appalled at their behavior when he joined, even though he backed the Kokomo Statements himself.

Here is the formula for a WELS apology, which is nothing like a real apology:
1. Express sorrow and make a long face.
2. Deceitfully explain it was all an accident or someone else's fault.
3. Blame someone if at all possible and express forgiveness for that dastardly individual for causing the sin.

The MLC gay video stars used the same formula, because WELS trains for conformity.
A. They did not know they were copying a gay video!
B. They blamed me, although I made it clear I posted it for a disgusted WELS layman.
C. They were taking it down on their own. (They posted it on Facebook and put it back on YouTube.)
D. They were willing to forgive me for objecting to their video sodomy.

WELS teacher Al Just blamed his dead wife for turning over and over on a steak knife in bed. No one ever said WELS guys were good liars. Bad lies are OK in WELS - they just do not survive a court trial. The president of DMLC helped defend Just, but the jury found Al guilty. Because Al never confessed in public, many WELS workers still claim he was innocent. They all have the status of guilt-free saints, so that makes sense...if someone is permanently three sheets to the wind.

When DP Ed Werner was arrested, it was because a confirmation girl mouthed off to him and he slapped her. DP Free's son told me that whopper and added, "At least I hope that is the reason."

DP John Seifert put Fred Adrian back into a divine call, imitating the doctrinal and moral discipline of DP Robert Mueller - less than zero. (Check with Deputy Doug Englebrecht for additional tips, such as pretending to meet with clergy and laity but sending a letter instead.)

One WELS member wrote about the drama queen blog from Appleton:

Unbelievable. They all end (all, being probably the same guy) with some sort of claim like "having their conscience pricked because they're acting like Jackson," and with a confession of some sort of pious enlightenment allowing them to rise above the sin of others by quitting their endeavor. The fact is, they are not motivated by love -- love for God, for God's word, and concern for the souls of men -- but from bitterness. Perhaps their consciences rightly are pricked as a result. They don't know what righteous indignation is, since their weak theology won't permit them to be indignant over error. Good riddance.

The Appleton WELS pastors all know who their drama queen blogger is. He posts from a Mac OS X, and I am sure he brags about who he is.

Joe Krohn and Tim Felt-needs knew who he was, long ago. I called him Anonymouse because he was frightened about using his own name and always sent extremely nasty posts. I figure he has an addiction problem because many comments in the past have been completely jumbled up. Anonymouse used to rage when I posted his worst comments with all the corrections noted.

The drama queen blogger chose to use the Anonymouse name I gave him at the beginning, often using mouse graphics for fun.

Various readers noticed how venomous he was when I criticized Church and Change, but especially when I wrote posts about Appleton.

Here are old Anonymouse comments:

It is amazing for someone who is no longer WELS and who is so doctrinally correct, that the direction to "mark and avoid" has been swapped for "mark and antagonize." The latter attitude in the heart is sinful spite. You talk about others whining and venting. Look in the mirror, dear Ichabod. The WELS is far from pure (no visible church body or congregation is) and will always be so ... but the Gospel is proclaimed in Word and Sacrament. As I recall those are the marks of the Church (big C) and believers are gathered there. I don't think that WELS is a place of either white-washed tombs or a body of folks that serve the devil below (as Brett likes to chide.)
Back to whistling while I work. This blog would be funny if it wasn't (sic) so sad. I'm praying for both Mr. and Mrs. Ichabod's needs this morning. Peace in Christ.


Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post ""Judge Us By Our Results" - WELS Church and Change...":

No wonder Mrs. Icky has a heart problem. It is filled with hatred much like the Ichabod faithless.

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "Popcorn Cathedral of Rock Ready To Go Live":

“PROCLAIM HIS WORD and leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit. You don't need to help Him.”
---------------------

I have heard this from WELS pastors for years while they side-step the question of “to whom?” The statement calls for disambiguation.

WELS pastors enjoy proclaiming his word over and over to fellow WELS members, children of members, the choir, etc. Generally speaking they are not talking about sharing the Word with the unchurched, non-members, etc. Without clarification the listener must infer or guess at what the pastor is saying or intending to say.

Along come pastors like Ski who strive to reach out to the unchurched in need of the Word. Anything he does is threatening because it makes the typical pastor look lazy by rehashing sermons to existing members.

What to do about it? The coup de grace results in attacks on Ski stating that he is not proclaiming the Word in the one and only acceptable way – like fellow pastors preaching to the choir.

No wonder WELS members feel confused!

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "Measuring WELS by the Numbers":

Same old, same old from you, GJ. What I think is so interesting is that you always talk about faithfulness to the Word, but I never EVER hear you share the gospel on Ichabod. You've replaced the good works of catholicism that you learned at Notre Dame with the "good work" of being faithful to the Word. A real Lutheran would always tie in faithfulness to God's Word with the gospel of Christ that Word contains. Your own words condemn you.

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "Massive Cuts in WELS, But Safari Don Patterson and...":

So numbers do make a difference when you want them to make a difference

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "The Four Horsemen of St. Marcus":

GJ, have the men in white jackets come for you yet? Keep posting your terribly ridiculous pictures, and they'll be knocking on your door sooner than you think!

***

GJ - I do get a few anonymous outpatients sending comments. Thanks for the encouragement.

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "More WELS By the Numbers":

Who appointed GJ to be the conscience of the WELS? He hasn't been a member of the synod for over a decade. He publishes his site simply because he has an axe to grind.

***

GJ - Who required Mouse to read this blog daily? Who held him at gunpoint and made him comment daily? Perhaps VP Don Patterson needs a minion to do his work for him. Kudu Don Patterson's only communication was limited to name-calling (You are a fool and a liar) and denying his safari guy was still a congregational president.

Who taught Mouse mind-reading? I know the Church and Chicaneries specialize in long-distance diagnosis of everyone who is onto them. Corky wrote his essay (posted on the left) because "he was brain-damaged." The former seminary president was against amalgamation because "he was senile." And so forth. Who is the first to say, "That's not loving"? Answer - the Church and Chicaneries.

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "Church and Change Day at Martin Luther College":

Don't you feel this is misleading to copy the MLC Evangelism Day speakers list, label it as Church and Change Day at MLC, and post it with this sign? "Get rid of all bitterness" Eph 4:31

***

GJ - You are right. I should have labeled it - Crypto-Babtist Day.

What happened to "mark and avoid," or "beware of false prophets," and false doctrine being like gangrene or cancer?

Anonymouse has left another clueless comment on your post "Conversation with a Layman":

Poor guy. You're the last person I would ever ask advice from. I bet that really feeds your ego when someone who doesn't know you calls, seeking your "wisdom."

Anonymouse, revealing his Church and Chicanery education, has left a new comment on your post "Anonymouse Yells "Coward" Again":

Nice one, ya putz. As always you never addressed my charge about the sacraments. Instead you just parrot more of your own garbage. I looked at the viewer stats mostly in single digits. You call that reaching the world? Certainly you could do more in your community if you made half the effort you do now.

You are no more a Lutheran than those you run down and are just as guilty. You don't administer the sacraments because you can't and won't.

Anonymouse has left another clueless comment on your post "Rev. Kristen Administers the Means of Grace":

For someone who claims to be such a staunch Lutheran, your Ascension 'communion' service was a joke. You call that administering the sacrament? How do you do a baptism?

You may not agree with how some people are conducting church, but at least they can administer the sacraments. You should be ashamed of your behavior and hiding in your little box. Get out in the world. Start your own church instead of hiding your light.

I have posted on this subject before and I'm sure you will in cowardly fashion delete this as you have the others because you know that I am right and you have no defense. But you still have to read this and maybe some day it will sink in. Your arrogance will do you in.

---

From a signed email:

Good evening Pastor,

What a beautiful Ascension Service! Thank you! It was very interesting the way you used the four Gospels and showed how they are each separate books but yet all mesh together. I really enjoyed everything.

Grumps Asks about Shrinkers Working

UOJ Stormtroopers need to rest up to do more planning.


grumpy has left a new comment on your post "Shrinkers Against Working Hard":

Here's a question...how many of your pastors show up for work days when your church has a clean-up, do some yard work, paint, etc. work day?

Some have said that their pastor's are usually busy with their families on those days, while members who also have families and work full time come almost every time there is a call.

When at prep school (MLS), freshmen and sophmore were required to shovel the walks and driveways of the professors. Sometimes these professors had children (teenagers) who had their walks shoveled by their dorm living classmates.

Is there a tendency for called workers to consider themselves exempt from the lowly grubby work of the church?

I have seen cases both ways (won't say which seems to be the more COMMON way), I was curious as to how other churches perceive this.

Grumps

***

GJ - The Sausage Factory paid students to mow the lawns of the professors. Same deal - the professors had plenty of kids to do that.

By the way - this comes from someone on the Sausage board - no school is safe from the money crisis. Mequon is sitting on some mighty fine residential property, which was once a farm of some 165 acres. Mequon is a wealthy suburb and the seminary is out of money, more or less.

---

grumpy has left a new comment on your post "Grumps Asks about Shrinkers Working":

Just an addendum Dr. Jackson...no pay was made to MLS preppies...it was just one more tradition...

I had no qualms about it when it was for an eldery professor without resident able bodied children.

For some others...well....

Grumps

***

GJ - The tradition reminds me of dwarf tossing. Who thought up free work for the profs? The students?