Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS and Universalism":
Again, could you please define your terms? According to the most recent couple of posts, according to you, atonement does not equal justification but forgiveness does equal salvation. So does justification equal forgiveness, while atonement does not equal forgiveness? Again, what's the difference between atonement and justification?
It seems to me that this entire thing is simply a case of terminology. It sounds like you and the WELS/ELS/LCMS are saying the same thing, only you're using the term atonement and they're using the term justification to talk about the same concept.
In other words, it seems like the WELS/ELS/LCMS speak of objective justification and subjective justification while you speak of atonement and justification. Same concepts in both cases, just different labels.
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GJ - A significant number of pastors think that UOJ is the same thing as Atonement, but the UOJ fans reject that idea. Quoting the late Dr. Robert Preus:
Objective justification which is God’s verdict of acquittal over the whole world is not identical with the atonement, it is not another way of expressing the fact that Christ has redeemed the world. Rather it is based upon the substitutionary work of Christ, or better, it is a part of the atonement itself. It is God’s response to all that Christ died to save us, God’s verdict that Christ’s work is finished, that He has been indeed reconciled, propitiated; His anger has been stilled and He is at peace with the world, and therefore He has declared the entire world in Christ to be righteous. [emphasis added]
I used to equate OJ with the Atonement, but then I realized how the circle of Walther disciples invented a new doctrine and imposed it deviously on the Lutheran Church. Robert Preus' last book repudiates UOJ. I will cite that tomorow, deo volunte.
The Word is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Word, yet both work together at all times, never apart from each other. There is a similarity with the Atonement and justification. They are not the same thing, but the message of the Atonement of Christ generates faith in listeners, who receive this priceless message in faith. In receiving the message of forgiveness through God's grace, they obtain what God promises: remission of sin, peace, eternal life, and the fruits of the Spirit.
ICHABOD, THE GLORY HAS DEPARTED - explores the Age of Apostasy, predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, to attack Objective Faithless Justification, Church Growth Clowns, and their ringmasters. The antidote to these poisons is trusting the efficacious Word in the Means of Grace. John 16:8. Isaiah 55:8ff. Romans 10. Most readers are WELS, LCMS, ELS, or ELCA. This blog also covers the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the Left-wing, National Council of Churches denominations.
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Friday, September 7, 2007
Terminology: UOJ, Atonement, Justification
New Poll Launched
Who Looks Like Whom?
Fans of Office Space will recognize Milton Waddams on the left. A fine actor made this character the funniest one in the movie. The bloke on above right is the author of Ichabod. The new poll is at the bottom of the page.
McCain's Face Defended
Revvin' Rev has left a new comment on your post
"Are They the Same Person?":
What is the point you are trying to make, that Rev. Paul McCain is brilliant?
Just because a person bears a resemblance to someone, doesn't automatically mean the "look a like" shares the same characteristics. Or is that what you are saying?
If I were to say that Rev. Gregory L. Jackson looks like Milton Waddams, does that mean that Ichabod mumbles to himself instead of talking to the people he needs to talk to? No, sharing a resemblance has nothing to do with sharing a person's status, characteristics, or personality.
Stick to the issues, leave the personal attacks in the baptismal font.
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GJ - If the readers link back to the post, they will see a startling resemblance in the photos of McCain and Karl Rove. I thought that was amusing. Besides, I wanted to try inserting photos.
It is not a personal attack to say McCain looks like Rove, unless someone thinks Rove is unspeakably ugly or evil. Perhaps Rove might think it was a personal attack, but only if he were a Wisconsin Synod pastor.
Every so often I try to add some humor to Ichabod, but people are bound to miss the point. More Revvin' Rev below.
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Revvin' Rev has left a new comment on your post "Are They the Same Person?":
Pastor Jackson,
Even though I didn't mean to attack you personally, I could have when I hypothetically compared you to Milton Waddams. Though it was meant to prove a point, committing a sin to point out a sin isn't right. Forgive me and remove the last comment.
I plead with you to stop the personal attacks. Stick to what people say and the issues. Who cares what Pastor McCain looks like?
WELS and Universalism
Mschottey has left a new comment on your post "FIC Promotes UOJ, Again":
UOJ Is not simply that all men are saved, even the ungodly. That is not taught, as i'm sure you very well know, in the WELS.
UOJ is that Christ died once for all men. He did not die only for the godly, rather he himself said that he did not come for the healthy but the sick. He did not only come for the faithful, nor those who would one day become faithful.
Christ died for all mankind, if he had not passages like "For God so loved the WORLD" and "God wants ALL men to be saved..." would be untrue.
Because of Christ and the work of justification all men on earth have been forgiven. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to instill saving faith in the hearts of unbelievers. Many reject the Holy Spirit, they would like a better way. But Christ died even for those who would reject them.
"While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"
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GJ - I know very well that the Wisconsin Synod had an evangelism campaign where the banners read, "I am saved, just like you." That is Universalism.
Forgiveness is salvation, so universal forgiveness is universal salvation. UOJ is also pure Enthusiasm.
The Wisconsin Synod loves to work with ELCA, whose Universalism and ecumenism are openly proclaimed. WELS hides its joint work with ELCA but still loves to be in bed with ELCA.
FIC Promotes UOJ, Again
WELS AnswerMan
Q: I was told that Lutherans teach that all people's sins were forgiven when Christ died on the cross. I have a very hard time believing that certain known non-christians, complete rascals, impenitent, and staying that way till their death had their sins forgiven. Seems to me that forgiveness is offered to everyone but the actual forgiving of sins by Christ does not happen until the Holy Ghost leads them to Baptism and Faith. Becoming a forgiven person by Christ and being saved happen together. The new testament, I think in Acts, says "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and then you will be saved." Please comment.
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A: Thanks for asking your question. This subject is a good one to remind us of the importance of defining terms, going out of our way to avoid misunderstanding, and -- above all -- limiting ourselves to what the Bible says on a given subject.
May we speak of all sinners being forgiven -- all mankind, including those impenitent, non-Christian "rascals" you are thinking of? Here is what the Bible declares:
"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them." (2 Cor. 5:19) "There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:22-25) "[Christ] was delivered over to death because of our sins and was raised to life because of our justification." (Romans 4:25). God says he has justified (declared not guilty, forgiven) all mankind because of Christ's atoning work for everyone two thousand years ago. This truth is often called objective or universal justification.
Alongside this reality is also the truth known as subjective justification, when the individual person is brought by the Holy Spirit to embrace or appropriate this forgiveness and receive personal benefit from it through saving faith. That is what you are primarily thinking of and is undeniable fact on the basis of the Bible. When a person remains impenitent and an unbeliever, he is still pardoned by God objectively and really -- but he does not benefit from that awesome truth. He is like a person who has had a fortune deposited into his bank account, in reality, yet despises that fact and continues to live and die as a pauper. The reality of the gift and the love of the Giver is not changed, but the personal blessing is forfeited.
Beware of emphasizing one Bible truth (subjective justification through faith) at the expense of another (objective justification). Receive with joy the Bible revelation of both. Beware of confusing similar but sometimes differing Bible concepts like being "forgiven" and being "saved". And do yourself a favor and do some reading on the subject. I suggest the following essays you may download and enjoy: http://www.wlsessays.net/authors/B/BeckerUniversal/BeckerUniversal.PDF and http://www.wlsessays.net/authors/S/SchallerRedemption/SchallerRedemption.PDF
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GJ - If people wonder why I write against Universal Objective Justification (forgiveness without faith, grace without the Means of Grace), this AnswerMan smoke cloud is reason enough.
Nothing good is going to happen in WELS, Missouri, or the ELS until they start teaching justification by faith according to the Scriptures and the Confessions.
Here are the basics, which will be published more completely on Lulu.com in the future:
1. The UOJ passages so frequently cited are all Atonement passages. Christ has indeed paid for the sins of the world. The Atonement means that everything changed with the death and resurrection of Christ, but justification in the Old Testamet could only be by faith. Has anyone tried to wedge UOJ into Abraham believing and being counted righteous?
2. No Biblical verse, no accepted Patristic author, no Book of Concord passage, no post-Reformation author has ever supported the opinion that "God declared the entire world forgiven of its sin."
3. UOJ fanatics cannot figure out if this Universalism of theirs happened at the death of Christ or His resurrection.
4. UOJ proponents have to admit that their system of thought is only about 100 years old. The first real belch of UOJ came with the Brief Statement. Walther and Pieper both promoted UOJ, but the roots of their false doctrine grew among the European Pietists. Walther was the first Hyper-Euro Lutheran. He quoted Europeans all the time.
WELS UOJ is highly conducive to working with ELCA Universalists, the Church of Rome, and Fuller Pentecostals. UOJ generates doctrinal apathy and global ecumenism.
The Biblical doctrine of the Means of Grace is taught consistently in the Scriptures, the Church Fathers (and I do not mean Walther, Pieper, and Uncle Fritz), Luther, the Book of Concord, and the post-Reformation theologians like Chemnitz, Gerhard, and others.
The treasure of the Atonement is an objective fact. As Luther said, the atoning death of Christ would be true even if no one ever believed it. Luther also said that God could save the world if he wanted to. Liberals, Universalists, UOJists - all agree that He has done just that. But the Word of God teaches us that God appointed means or instruments to bring this grace, this Atonement to individuals.
The Reformed always rail against the Means of Grace. They hate Holy Communion and Holy Baptism as sacraments. That hate the power of the efficacious Word alone (that is, without their help, their salesmanship, their logic). They hate the abundance of those Means of Grace. Harumpf:
1. The Word?
2. Baptism?
3. Communion?
4. Absolution?
5. Mutual consolation of the brethren?
Why does God need so many? they scandalize among themselves.
I would argue that man needs so many Means of Grace because we are so prone to dismiss, ignore, or disbelieve the full and free forgiveness won for us by Christ on the cross, confirmed for the whole world in His resurrection. God gives us absolute certainty that - no matter how we feel - our sins are taken away through these means.
Every so often a pastor will send an apology to me. He is forgiven. Then he apologizes a second time. So I ask, "Don't you believe in absolution?" That brings a chuckle. That is the soul of the Gospel. God does what He promises.
The Means of Grace also give us a double-blessing. We have the great privilege of sharing in the abundance of Gospel blessings without being individually responsible for the exact effect of the Word in individuals. We do not need to judge, to reckon, to calculate - only to sow the imperishable Gospel seed with abandon.
The efficacious Word is the energy behind the Means of Grace. The Holy Spirit only works through this Word and never apart from it. However, the efficacy shows itself not only in conversion but also in hardening. Anyone who has tried to be faithful to the Scriptures has seen how Satanic hatred erupts from hearing the mildest Scriptural teaching. I used to open my snail mail with asbestos gloves as heat waves shimmered above the page of the latest tirade, which usually closed "In Christian love..."
The Old Synodical Conference has yakked about UOJ with increasing stridency for the last 30 years, while working hand-in-claw with the LCA/ALC/ELCA. Has this UOJ opinion helped their evangelism efforts or lubricated their eventual merger with ELCA? Has UOJ protected the Gospel, as they like to say, quoting one of their illiterate authorities, or moved them into fellowship with the Church of Rome?
Has UOJ strengthened the synods or hastened their decline?
How many UOJ pastors have pursued a mistress while thinking, "I know I am already forgiven"?
KJV John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
KJV John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
KJV 1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
KJV John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
KJV John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
KJV John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
KJV John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
KJV John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
KJV Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
KJV Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
KJV Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
KJV 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
KJV 1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
KJV Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant Moving Along Fast
I just learned that I can do low-cost printing through Lulu.com, where I was going to publish anyway (but use a printer here or in Michigan). Once I finish the master file I can order up the copies needed for Christian News and my personal list.
Printing from Lulu will save me about 3-4 weeks time and many headaches (perhaps substituting a few).
I can also publish works that would be too costly to print. Low-cost printing starts at about $3,000.
Lulu.com is a good system for publishing works for large or small audiences. I can print a custom four-color book of stories for my grandchildren. The revolution in publishing has arrived.
Poetry Corner
Musical Poem
There once was a WELS pope named Yankee,
Who overlooked much hanky-panky.
Now Two's-on home base
With egg on his face,
And members are getting quite cranky.