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| Martin Luther College students loved, loved, loved this video, and Wisconsin Lutheran College students defended it. Nothing to see here, move on. |
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| Arrested and convicted, then convicted again. But he was caught before - but still hired by WELS. Nothing to see here, move on. |
The Undercurrent of Homosexuality
One anonymous brother recounts his experience with initiation at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary:
At MLC, there was a "tradition" in the mens' dorms that if it was your birthday, a group of about 15 or 20 guys would dog-pile on top of you, all of them completely naked. There were also naked, drunken parades through the dorm hallways, accompanied by guitars and drums.
The Seminary Chorus had a custom of guys surreptitiously groping each other during performances and concerts. Professor Tiefel once commended one of the members of the choir for his wide smile during a performance. After being told that the smile was a result of being groped throughout the concert, Tiefel just laughed. I quit the choir not long afterwards.
It always seemed to me that the worst offenders in this regard were guys who had been sent away to prep school at the age of fourteen. A psychologist could probably pinpoint the reasons why, but the experience seems to warp many of them in disgusting ways. In any case, just beneath the surface of these traditions and initiation rites in the WELS system is a strong and sinister undercurrent of homosexuality.
I'm not saying that a large number of WELS pastors are homosexual, but I'm sure there are some who have been led into temptation by these activities. And even for those who haven't, it isn't a healthy thing to make light of sin.
During our senior year of MLC, we (the seniors in pastor track) visited the seminary. Getting of the bus we were greeted by "our brothers" as we passed through the arch of seminary students we were all groped. Literally someone had grabbed my goods and at the end of that was a fat man in a speedo who bear hugged us. I complained in a letter. Never heard back.I had the same experience, except it was in the parking lot behind the dorm, not under the arch.
At MLC, there was a "tradition" in the mens' dorms that if it was your birthday, a group of about 15 or 20 guys would dog-pile on top of you, all of them completely naked. There were also naked, drunken parades through the dorm hallways, accompanied by guitars and drums.
The Seminary Chorus had a custom of guys surreptitiously groping each other during performances and concerts. Professor Tiefel once commended one of the members of the choir for his wide smile during a performance. After being told that the smile was a result of being groped throughout the concert, Tiefel just laughed. I quit the choir not long afterwards.
It always seemed to me that the worst offenders in this regard were guys who had been sent away to prep school at the age of fourteen. A psychologist could probably pinpoint the reasons why, but the experience seems to warp many of them in disgusting ways. In any case, just beneath the surface of these traditions and initiation rites in the WELS system is a strong and sinister undercurrent of homosexuality.
I'm not saying that a large number of WELS pastors are homosexual, but I'm sure there are some who have been led into temptation by these activities. And even for those who haven't, it isn't a healthy thing to make light of sin.
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7 comments:
- Anonymous said...
- I'm a student at MLC and I've never experienced any of these naked dog piles or anything of that sort. How long ago did these things happen?
- Matthias Flach said...
- I'm glad to hear that, Anonymous. Maybe some of the Northwestern influence is finally wearing off.
- Joel Lillo said...
- Yeah, I attended four years of prep, four years of NWC, and three years of Seminary and NEVER experienced anything remotely like that. Either you're relating lies or you just had an out of the ordinary experience at our schools. If you did experience, a sincere apology on behalf of those who acted that way.
- Der Schwarz Schaf said...
- Oh dear MLC student! I feel very sorry for you. There is only one thing worse in the WELS than being abused at Prep and/or College and/or Sem, and that is NOT being abused. That means you are not worth the effort. You have the wrong blood lines, or are of the wrong ethnic stock, or from Bethany, or one of the Concordias, or came from somewhere outside the WELS strain. Or maybe you're just considered such a dunce, lightweight, nobody, nothing, that the leading students don't even realize you exist. Such happens all the time. If none of these gross and disgusting things happen to you, you will never go anywhere in the synod. If you're a Pastor, you'll be able to count the number of Calls you get in your entire ministry on half of one hand - if that! Indeed, you'll probably be given a dead church impossible to turn around, and you'll end up working for Thrivent or Schwans the rest of your days. So, if I were you, on your birthday, I'd stick my head out of my dorm room and yell, "Dog pile on ________ !" Then strip and await your fate. If no one shows up, you'd better head for St. Louis or Ft. Wayne.
Rüsten sie sich als Männer! - Anonymous said...
- Der Schwarz Schaf,
You are one sick puppy. I feel sorry for you. - Matthias Flach said...
- Joel, on a previous post, a third person testified to the same groping ceremony at the Seminary. That's three independent accounts verifying it. I am absolutely not relating lies.
Anonymous 4:41, Der Schwarz Schaf isn't the sick puppy, it's the guys in the system who are doing this stuff. Everything Der Schaf said is true--pecking order among pastors is determined by your involvement in these abuses. Do you know how many GA popes are now DPs and professors? - Anonymous said...
- This is really starting to sound like a gripefest for people "burned by the system."
I'm beginning to get the sneaking suspicion that Matthias is actually Greg Jackson. He's covering the same material (except UOJ) and has all the same hang-ups.
Why he would start a whole new blog is puzzling, though. - I'm with Joel on this one. I also went to 4 years of Prep, 4 years of NWC and 3 years at Sem and never had anything like this either. I've heard enough sources that I don't think people are making it up, but I hope it was a few isolated incidents, or classes. From my experience, this type of thing is not normal - and it is shameful. And while I don't have a big Synod name, I'm not exactly an outcast either - not a dunce, not a lightweight, received calls every 4-7 years through my whole ministry, never been at a "dead church impossible to turn around," so I don't buy Der Schwartz Schaf's explanation either.
One class, or one era of classes, who thought this was funny. It's not, and shouldn't happen. If a current MLC student says it hasn't, hopefully that's a good sign.
OCP 
Matthias Flach said...- Anonymous 5:52, I haven't been burned by the system, but I have been groped by the system. Is that better or worse?
By the way, I'm not Greg Jackson. I don't know how to prove it to you, but I'm not. Did it ever occur to you that we bring up some of the same problems because they actually are real problems?
Or are you under the impression that the WELS doesn't have any real problems? 
"By their fruits ye shall know them." - Jeffery Clark said...
- To Anonymous July 17, 2014 at 3:59 PM:
I have to concur with what Der Schwarz Schaf said. When I was at MLC, these things happened, but only if you were considered worthwhile.
People outside of the mainstream were ignored and never targeted, mostly because these men know what they are doing is wrong. Older and second career students are generally left alone since they have been "outside" of the WELS system at some point simply by taking a job, even if they are unmarried and forced to live in the dorms, as I was - because, as Der Schwarz Schaf said, they will go nowhere in the synod. If, by some chance you start to gain influence on campus and start to make some ripples in the water, they might start paying attention to you, but it is only to get dirt on you, since you've probably already been targeted for removal by the Profs who approve of these things and love to "cull the herd" of those deemed to be "not WELS enough."
What is sad is that they think that they are doing these things in secret, but it was painfully obvious to anyone who had their eyes open and thought for themselves. - Anonymous said...
- This video at 45:50 shows who fits in. Brother called to same congregation. Rev father seems overly impressed, why the whole clan is. How about, 59:09 same location as brother in GJ blogs favorite picture. To hear the audience response is disturbing. And Schroeder's comment.
http://www.mlc-wels.edu/today/features/current/commencement-recap - Matthias Flach said...
- This comment was left by Ben Wink on Conformity over Confession, but it fits this thread too:
There was a form of hazing at MLC back when I was there. Of course it was called "freshmen welcoming" or some such nonsense if memory serves. The sophomores were called the Lords and the Ladies, the freshmen were assigned to one of them. The female students would be doused in random condiments at the crack of dawn, covered in flour, and other bits of nonsense. The men would be forced up early and would scream down the hallways "We won't shut up, til you get up!" The same condiment nonsense also happened, some were told to perform disgusting fake sexual acts on the sprinter statue, or were told to have pretend sexual intercourse with trees and benches. And you had to obey these morons in order to get through. Some lords made their "subjects" dress in women's clothing. A friend of mine was told to hit on a pretty girl by a "lord". He did so and this girl's insecure boyfriend knocked my friend down and proceeded to kick him really hard in the ribs several times over. The kicking boyfriend is in one of our WELS congregations right now. Late at night we were told to go to the woods as they were going to burn a large letter M for MLC I guess. All of these students of German descent, in the woods, wearing the school colors of red, black, and white, having some bizarre burning ritual? You don't have to see Triumph of the Will in order to get weirded out from that experience. I understand when you join a fraternity there is some stupid hoops to jump through. But this is a school of ministry and my faith and my student loan more than covered my entrance duties for New Ulm. I shouldn't have to perform fake fellatio on inanimate objects because some putz who is now in a pulpit somewhere ordered me to do so in order to "welcome" me. - Anonymous said...
- Yep, Ben Wink....Back in grade school in the late 80's we had a recent DMLC grad as our teacher. She told us how the freshmen would have to lay down in a circle and pretend they were a pancake and the upperclassmen would pour flour & syrup and other things all over them. I'm sure she wouldn't have told us 10 year olds about the "other" things that went on.
- Anonymous said...
- I wanted to serve, hence why I continued on. However, I did not make it through. Apparently bishops can ask vicars to do illegal things and when this vicar reported it. He was asked to resign and then not allowed back. [from another thread]+
- Der Schwarz Schaf said...
- Ein kranker welpe here!
Since we're playing "True Confessions," why not also talk of the "grassers" at [D]MLC in the state part nearby. I saw fairly open copious coupling, and not fake coitus either. Many a young Christian woman and probably a few men have left that school in great and real fear of losing their virginity. "Buffalo Girls" do like to "come out" at night! And, to be fair, this is NOT about the fact that these same things happen abundantly at nearly all colleges. The point is that they should not be condoned, covered-up, and yes, coveted, by generations of students, parents, and profs. Perhaps Herr Jackson is on to something with his concerns over the WELS version of Justification. Maybe this is done BECAUSE everything is already forgiven, so that these demented dimwits can go along their merry way without any concern for souls - theirs or anyone else's.
Wie schade! - Anonymous said...
- A few musings on this post (related anyway).
a) Whenever I hear someone is thinking of sending their troubled/trouble making teenager to prep (MLS or MLPS). It is NOT a reformatory. If you have a 2 parent household with 3 kids, that is a 2 to 3 ratio. If they are a dorm student, it is more like a 3 (maybe) tutors to 100+ teenagers. Think about that. Where will they get more supervision?
b) I have heard that hazing is now gone, and the ZEX year no longer exists. Good for that if true. Why would you put 13/14 year olds, away from home for the first time in their lives, through a hazing ritual when they are supposed to be encouraged to want to enter the public ministry?
With today's helicopter parents, email, texting, video, etc, I can see where old time hazing would be a law suit waiting to happen.
c) Why are pastor/teacher kids usually the worst? Are they trying to prove something, or is it because the hammer will not come down as hard on them if they are caught. Not all PKs/TKs are bad...some were fine people, but the grand majority of the trouble came from that group.
d) Is it latent sadomasochistic homosexuality that causes some to want to always grope same gender genital areas? Ironically those participating in often through out taunts of "gay" if they are told it is not cool. Hmmm...methinks they protest too much.
It's good that some traditions die out. - Anonymous said...
- To borrow a quote from Star Wars... Only the Sith speak in absolutes. Please note Lillo's comments. Congrats to Lillo if he didn't attend a grasser or COS meeting partaking in the Boot. Here's to sister Joel he's with us tonight... He eats it, he beats he even mistreats... Here's to sister Joel he's with us tonight. Sound familiar?
The stories on GA sound about right too.
Boorish behavior isn't it? - Anonymous said...
- How about Alec Guinness' quote from the original Star Wars, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." Seems fitting for a GJ photoshop.
