From Bailing Water:
Anonymous said...
I remember that last year there was a link on the WELS official website that allowed registration for the Church and Change Conference. (I am sure they would not provide a link to something they did not approve).
Hopefully they will not supply that link for the November, 2009 conference.
It did appear to have synodical backing last year. Also men in WELS leadership positions were and still are a part of Church and Change. These are people we lay people look up to for guidance in our spiritual lives. When the leaders lead us in this direction.....it does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out. If it walks like a duck.......
October 23, 2008 12:30 PM
Anonymous said...
From wels.net and other internet research, it appears that local congregations support C&C conferences and they get grants from places like Thrivent (besides charging for their conferences), is that correct? They meet once a year? And, also, there is some connection/accountability with DPs, COP and/or Parish Services? C&C is made up of WELS pastors and like-minded participants, so besides promoting CG methods, what influence do they have on the synod (apart from within local congregations and supportive ministry)?
Rob
October 23, 2008 1:01 PM
Anonymous said...
PER: Bruce Becker, Administrator
WELS Parish Services (also a member of the Board of Directors for Church and Change)
Church and Change is a grassroots organization comprised of WELS pastors, teachers, staff ministers, and lay people. Through its conferences, participants learn from one another, share ministry ideas, and explore new ways to bring the changeless gospel of Jesus Christ to a ever-changing world. It provides a rare opportunity in our circles for called workers and lay people from various districts to get together to talk about gospel ministry. Church and Change, in its organizing documents, has a stated desire to be connected directly to WELS synodical ministry through the Board for Parish Services. When hosting conferences, the Church and Change chairman apprises the district president of the district in which the event will be held. The organization also follows the guidelines established by the WELS Conference of Presidents for publicizing and hosting such events. In short, Church and Change is accountable to WELS on several different levels.
October 23, 2008 1:18 PM
Anonymous said...
here's my 2 cents worth...
anyone who's a member of c&c should remove themselves from the WELS membership list. start your own touchy feely church and rock on. leave the rest of us alone. i designate my church offerings go specifically to anything but the general fund. they're not going to send a penny of my offering up there to milwaukee to dole out back to this kind of nonsense. it's a church within a church. time to cut 'em loose. if the synod uppity-ups can't do that, i'll cut myself loose after 59 years of active WELS membership. it ain't what it used to be and as far as i can tell, those we've put in charge don't really care.
October 23, 2008 2:30 PM
Anonymous said...
Thank-you for saying that, Anonymous of 2:30 PM.
I agree with you about the offerings and it is the same in my household. I wish it was not so but I cannot support this stuff with a clear conscience.
I am being patient (so far) and hope this clears up but I have started my letter of resignation and will need to submit it if something cannot be done about the Church and Change group and all the stuff they are doing to "unLutheranize" WELS. I don't understand why they want to be part of WELS.
I came into WELS as an adult, was instructed and confirmed. I thought I had found a church and first learned of my salvation. I am so very very confused and upset with all that is happening. This is not how I was instructed that WELS' believes. I'm not even sure of my salvation anymore. The Church and Change group is leading me to view church and the instructions I had as if it was all a big joke. I took the pastor instructing me as serious. This is very painful because now I need to look for a new church and I don't even know where to start looking.
October 23, 2008 3:42 PM
Anonymous said...
Dear anonymous of 3:42:
While the concerns about C&C are real and justified, I believe that the information and discussion on this blog can give an overstated impression as to the importance and influence of this somewhat inocnsequential (sic) group. The group is not supported by synod dollars. It has a self-appointed board of six or seven people. They hold a conference every two years, attended by about 200 people (many of them lay people). In general, the vast majority of pastors in the synod do not and would not participate in what they have to offer. I would suggest that you talk to your pastor and other pastors you know before you make any quick decisions.
While discussions such as this can be helpful in identifying problems, it is really disturbing to that the unrestrained (and sometimes unfactual) talk is really harming individuals in their faith and causing them to question the sincerity of the pastor who instructed them in the Word and to doubt salvation itself. Perhaps in seeing the hurt and reaction of anonymous 3:42, commenters should weigh their words more carefully. By seeking to solve a problem, you may be creating greater ones.
October 23, 2008 4:06 PM
[GJ - The passage above is utter nonsense, deliberately misleading, and manipulative. Dealing with false doctrine will harm believers? Surgery and chemo hurt, too, but they are needed to remove a cancer. All false doctrine is cancer.]
Anonymous said...
Thank you 2:30pm also,
I believe that I will also start giving my offerings to my church's designated funds until these slippery mission grants are monitored more closely.
3:42...
I would start by talking to your pastor to see his take on the situation. Invite him to look at this blog. Ask him what his position is on Church and Change and pastors sitting at the feet of Baptists experts.
October 23, 2008 4:09 PM
Anonymous said...
Norman-
You didn't know that the pastor of our own C&C congregation, Nathan Krause at Abiding Shepard in Cottage Grove, WI., was a PRESENTER at the last C&C conference?? The cancer is in us, too. Krause even had a vicar in the past year or so.
ELSer
