     Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 483 Registered: 1-2002 |
Those who oppose the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification say that there is no kind of Justification before an individual comes to faith, but would they say that God is reconciled before faith in line with Rom. 5:10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life? R.C.H. Lenski, in whom they descry a kindred spirit, admits to a reconciliation before faith, and if one does not believe in the forgiveness of sins before faith, then one flies in the face of the Apostles' Creed in which the confessor confesses, "I believe ... the forgiveness of sins." | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 484 Registered: 1-2002 |
How are we "saved by His life" if not because He was raised for our justification (Rom. 4:25)? | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 485 Registered: 1-2002 |
The Calov quotation does not prove anything against the accurate ACLC critique. Calov simply distinguishes Christ's death from His resurrection, pointing out that Christ's work of atonement was completed on the cross when He said, "It is finished." The ELDoNA response obliges those who teach the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification by having Calov quote John Gerhard's declaration of the Easter Absolution of the world. Much is made of this quotation from Abraham Calov, which is found in Dr. Preus's Justification and Rome: Although Christ has acquired for us the remission of sins, justification, and sonship, God just the same does not justify us prior to our faith. Nor do we become God's children in Christ in such a way that justification in the mind of God takes place before we believe (Apodixis Articulorum Fidei, Lueneburg, 1684). It is touted as the definitive refutation of the doctrine of Objective Justification. However, you will note that Calov declares that Christ HAS ACQUIRED for us JUSTIFICATION. Did Christ do this when we came to faith or long before any of us ever existed? Calov can be read here to refute the error of Samuel Huber, who taught that all people are individually justified apart from faith with faith being totally superfluous. Calov is merely saying that justification is not received subjectively before or apart from faith. This is what those who teach the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification have been teaching all along. Calov does not reject the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification! | ||
| Rev. Robert Fischer (Fischer) Intermediate Member Username: Fischer Post Number: 404 Registered: 12-2004 |
And the ELDoNA response continues. They have posted "Part 1 of Part 4"(???) of their response. From Rev. Eric Stefanski: Part one of "Treating Calov with Respect by Following His Argument and Paying Attention to His Words," the fourth installment in the ongoing refutation of the false claims of the Association of Confessional Lutheran Churches against the scriptural, Lutheran doctrine of Justification, has now been posted to the web site of the Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America (ELDoNA) at: http://eldona.org/theses-on-the-article-of-justifi cation-a-refutation-of-the-aclcs-critique-part-fou r/ | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 488 Registered: 1-2002 |
The ELDoNA theses are anything but scriptural and confessional. ELDoNA's norma normans is the body of the private writings of Lutheran theologians from Leonard Hutter, the founder of electio intuitu fidei finalis, to Abraham Calov. However, we should make clear that it is the body of these private writings filtered through their skewed understanding. | ||
| Joe Krohn (Jester) Intermediate Member Username: Jekster Post Number: 223 Registered: 4-2011 |
They can't or won't see the forest for the trees. | ||
| George Mueller (Mueller) Senior Member Username: Mueller Post Number: 1319 Registered: 11-2012 |
Stefanski is a trash-talker. He defends himself and his sect by false and malicious attacks against his critics. If the ACLC criticizes ELDoNA they are making "false claims . . . against the scriptural, Lutheran doctrine of Justification." Where has the ACLC made such false claims? It has criticized ELDoNA! That's how! So thinks the tribal loyalist, unable to engage in conversation with anyone outside of the tribe except by imposition of tribal (that is to say, cultic) rules. The ELDoNA itself is its own rule and norm of doctrine and practice. What is their formal principle? We hate Walther. What is their material principle? Whatever empowers us preachers so that we don't have to submit to the judgment of the laity of God. Every form of sacerdotalism moves the certainty of justification out of the second article and puts it in the third and then makes the clergy the masters by giving them dominance over the Holy Spirit. You show me an American Lutheran of the twenty first century who goes around wearing a purple shirt and calling himself a bishop, and I'll show you a sacerdotalist. Heiser's little sect attracts likeminded sacerdotalists. This is the real reason these guys attack objective justification. They want control over the gospel. They distrust the laity. This is why, when they get together, they don't let the laymen in and don't give them a vote. This is not just their knee-jerk anti-Walther reactionary sectarianism. It is their fear of being challenged and having to take their stand on the Scriptures alone. Sacerdotalists tend to be girly men who run behind their office (or their historical "scholarship") to avoid the manly task of defending their doctrine solely by an appeal to the clear Scriptures. When the clear Scriptures rule, objective justification denying sacerdotalists run away and hide behind their clerical pretentions. | ||
| Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 489 Registered: 1-2002 |
George, there have been times that I have watched ELDoNA, and thought that they were trying to go back to orthodox Lutheranism. Their Repristination Press provided the church with a gold mine of forgotten theology. Their dedication to the orthodox theologians of the 16th and 17th century was in line with the spirit of Dr. Robert Preus; however, by simply embracing the sectarian views of a man who was rightly removed from his former synod's pastoral roster, they have cured me once and for all of any hankering I had for clericalism. You hit the nail on the head when you point out that they have removed in their heterodox confession the central article of our faith from the Second Article and placed it in the Third Article. Let me add to the list of their terms of detestation the word "parochial." Walther's theology is too parochial in their view, making their theology in contrast CATHOLIC. They ridicule Franz Pieper's speaking of God's inner forum in which He justifies the world of sinners for the sake of Christ, but that is established firmly and clearly in 2 Corinthians 5:18-21, specifically verse 19a: "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them." This is the solid foundation of our biblical faith in Objective Justification, which stands firm forever against all that deny it. Even if Luther, Chemnitz, Hunnius, Gerhard, Calov, Quenstedt, Meisner, Karpzov, and a host of other Lutheran worthies were to declare our doctrine to be false, this one passage of Scripture would blow them all away with its clarity. Rydecki labors to find in Luther an understanding that the imperfect of "eimi" in verse 19 is present rather than past tense by variances he finds in the old editions of Luther's Bible. It doesn't matter if he did find that Luther understood that instance of "eimi" to be present rather than imperfect (past) tense. The Greek text stands firm against those who deny Objective Justification just like it stands against the Reformed who deny the Sacramental Union "touto ESTIN to soma mou." 2 Corinthians 5:19 teaches Dr. Pieper's divine inner forum in which for Christ's sake God has justified the entire world of sinners by forgiving their sins. This provides the substance of the message of reconciliation that we Christians are given to share with the world: BELIEVE, YOU ARE JUSTIFIED BY THE BLOOD AND RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ANOTHER, JESUS CHRIST. This will stand firm against the gainsayers forever! This Easter bless God for His gracious objective absolution! "... He was raised again for our justification!" Don't let the legalists limit the precious Gospel! |
