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| The WELS Discussion Pharisees ignore the Augsburg Confession, the Apology, and the Chief Article. |
Someone directed me to WELS debating UOJ on Facebook - again. They do not discuss Justification by Faith, the Chief Article of Christianity, because UOJ comforts them and makes them feel superior.
Am I maligning the Pharisees by associating them with WELS and the Little Sect on the Prairie?
Everyone should concede that the WELS/ELS blokes preening about their UOJ have no excuse - given our volume of material teaching the Gospel. As we can see from John's Gospel, which they also ignore, some of the Jewish leaders believed in Jesus and were forgiven and saved.
Fools Gold from the WELS Discussions
Marzan Ozarraga Venus Tnx Donald Hochmuth I found out that he is ELDONA. It came across as a shock to me when he claims that wels believed that by UOJ we mean justification even for those who are in hell. It is obvious to me at face value that it was off the rails observation for him. But I was just trying to test him here on that accusation. tnx for the time.
GJ - Yes, WELS teaches that everyone in Hell is a guilt-free saint.
David Ude Yes Marzan Ozarraga Venus, the folks in eldona only get to their view either by completely rejecting what the Bible is saying or by completely ignoring what we are actually saying. Lutherans have always been clear on this, stressing uoj and sj at the same and steadfastly refusing the idea that everyone will go to heaven.
GJ - Ude admitted faith in those guilt-free saints in Hell and sealed the deal with the comment above.
Gerard Johnson The WELS rightly kicked out the false teacher Paul Rydecki when he denied the beautiful biblical doctrine of UOJ, that all men are justified whether they believe it or not, instead teaching that only those with faith in Jesus are justified. He went to the ELDoNA which is why they get so riled up about it. Like brother Tembreull pointed out above, the ELDoNA nuts may maintain the universal atonement, but OJ is about justification, not atonement. Jutification (sic) means forgiveness and declared righteous according to our shared confession. All sinners are forgiven and declared righteous like your wonderful WELS "This We Beleive (sic)" says. That is the end of the matter, and if ELDoNA rejects that, shake the dust off your feet and ignore their works!
Once again i just want to thank the WELS for their stalwart confession in this matter. Would that my beloved LCMS had the same intestinal fortitude!!!
GJ - Denying the Chief Article is "stalwart"? Oh my.
Ron Pederson Think about the implication of denying objective justification: God has not forgiven my sins but if I believe He has, then He has.
GJ - Their Objective Justification term is from the Calvinist translator of a Halle Pietist professor - Knapp. And yet the act of questioning this newly invented dogma is converted into a sin.
Someone asked pertinent questions about UOJ's contradictions. This was a response -
Joe Jewell Thomas Alan: going forward, you need to disagree WITHOUT the name-calling (it’s especially ironic that you would need to be told this given that many of your ad hominems have been in the vein of “snot-nosed kid”).
It’s not helpful, contentless, and completely uncalled for. Please refrain. The most gratuitous of your comments has been deleted. To be clear: The debate is fine, welcome even (confrontation too!), but no reason we need to call names.
GJ - Funny how only one side gets dressed down by the WELS/ELS moderators. Beware the wrath of the UOJ Pharisees.
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Major Factual Errors in This UOJ Discussion
Various people make these claims, which are patently false:
- WELS/ELS - "They have always taught UOJ." No, the Gausewitz catechism did not, and it served the Synodical Conference decades until "improved by WELS" and then kicked under the bus. The much newer, verbose, and pedantic Kuske catechism is UOJ.
- The LCMS has never officially taught UOJ. Its catechisms teach Justification by Faith. However, the UOJ faction does control the Missouri Synod.
- Jay Webber - who constantly links his pathetic essay and the Buchholz debacle - tries to call Justification by Faith "synergism." That proves he does not grasp Biblical doctrine or the history of doctrine. He reminds me of Tim Glende, who invented Inuitu Fidei!
