William Kope (Tonto2)
Senior Member
Username: Tonto2
Post Number: 1262
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 2:16 pm: Edit Post Delete Post Print Post
>>Isn't this exactly what you yourself have done by forming the ACLC?>>
Rev. Kurtzahn
The ACLC is not a single congregation. There are other small groups such as ELDoNA which is in discussions with ACLC, The Free Lutheran Church in Finland and a small group of Lutherans in Sri Lanka, called the Lanka Lutheran Church. So you can see by that that these small groups are reaching out to other Confessional Lutheran bodies. There is no Lutheran body that is completely orthodox, yet many bodies still strive for orthodoxy. Isn't that what the Church is called to do?
Rev. Stephen Kurtzahn (Hville79)
Member
Username: Hville79
Post Number: 180
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 2:46 pm: Edit Post Delete Post Print Post
Mr. Kope: I fully realize the ACLC is not a single congregation. The ACLC may indeed be having free conferences and discussions with other mini-church bodies. The point I was getting at with my last post is this: Pastor Preus criticizes others and makes sarcastic comments about them, while at the same time he's doing the very same thing.
Pr Rolf David Preus (Rolf)
Senior Member
Username: Rolf
Post Number: 3675
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 3:03 pm: Edit Post Delete Post Print Post
No, Rev. Kurtzahn, I am not doing the very same thing. None of us in the ACLC left the ELS voluntarily. We were thrown out. We were not thrown out for doctrinal reasons. None of us was given due process.
I was thrown out because I wouldn't recant a paper I had written unless I was shown that it contained errors or false doctrine. The other pastors were thrown out because they told the man who threw me out to repent of his sin and that he could not commune at their altars until he did. It was not our choice, Rev. Kurtzahn.
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GJ - Pope John the Malefactor extended the Left Foot of Fellowship to many, yet he is still in elected office. That episode proves that voting does not solve any problems. The worst leaders (Gurgle, VP Wayne Mueller) have been voted into office and even voted back in after being voted out (Wayne Mueller).
The solution is not with the right man but with the correct doctrine. The Lutheran Church needs faithful leaders, but a faithful leader cannot accomplish much alone. Others must also apply the Word of God and study the Book of Concord.
3 comments:
The real question resides in how to purge a religion of shady -- non-orthodox -- leaders. All Lutherdom suffers from them. Apart from complaints, we have no acceptable, effective solutions presented.
Correct doctrine does not solve the problem alone. We have correct doctrine yet the shady leaders reject it in favor of their personal ideology. Laity cannot force them to subscribe to correct doctrine.
Yet with the right man and a religion espousing the correct doctrine the religion can move ahead with the blessings of God.
Here comes the million dollar question. How does the laity restore the correct doctrine and ensure that their religion is led by the right men? Even Ichabod does not know.
"GJ - Pope John the Malefactor extended the Left Foot of Fellowship to many, yet he is still in elected office. That episode proves that voting does not solve any problems. The worst leaders (Gurgle, VP Wayne Mueller) have been voted into office and even voted back in after being voted out (Wayne Mueller).
The solution is not with the right man but with the correct doctrine. The Lutheran Church needs faithful leaders, but a faithful leader cannot accomplish much alone. Others must also apply the Word of God and study the Book of Concord."
This predicts no or very little improvement will come out of the WELS 2009 Convention. Business will continue as usual with the leaders getting their way no matter how misguided and poorly thought out. Correct doctrine will continue to take a back seat to the personal ideologies of Mischke-Gurgel-Patterson-Mueller-Valleskey and others.
Bottom line nothing will improve short of reform demanded by the laity. Thereafter, the laity will need to maintain oversight over weak and easily corrupted leaders. No more trusting pastors as paragons of virtue!
Another flock taught not to think or ask questions.
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