Saturday, November 22, 2008

WELS Polka Worship



Polka kitty is tough.


Read about it here. No, I do not have an explanation.

It was at Trinity. The pastor's contact information is: Pastor John Zeitler,

Lead Pastor, jzeitler@trinityluthbp.com.

Polka worship is described here.

Faith Methodist also has polka worship, so it must not be strictly a WELS liturgical style.

Here is a link to Vineyard polka worship, amid much hilarity. Ear-bleach is needed to recover from this worship experience. It does nothing for polka but really demeans the Christian faith. I found the YouTube embed code. With apologies:




---

Brett Meyer said...
Financing provided by the homosexual and abortion advocates at your local ELS, WELS, LCMS and ELCA supported Thrivent.

Thrivent Grants􀀀
In 2007, Trinity received $13,205.00 from Thrivent Financial in􀀀
matching funds for the following:􀀀
$7,480.00 - Giving Plus for Trinity School􀀀
$1,557.00 - Golf Tournament (for new computers)􀀀
$1,500.00 - TEL silent auction (new scoreboard)􀀀
$ 450.00 - Candy Sales (new pre-school equipment)􀀀
$ 468.00 - Boy & Girl Pioneers􀀀
$ 50.00 - Vacation Bible School􀀀
$ 100.00 - Debt Retirement Fund (Coordinators worked􀀀
Thrivent booth at Scott Co. Fair for this grant)􀀀
$1,600.00 - Polka Service & Pork Chop Dinner (audio-􀀀
visual fund)

http://www.trinityluthbp.com/newsletters/Trinity%20news%20letter%20March,%202008.PDF

Trinity Seminary, Deerfield, Loves WELS/ELS




See the report here, page 7.

Willow Creek is there, too, of course.

The Evangelical Lutheran Synod? See for yourself. If they are listed, they are just experimenting.

Bailing Waters Comments on Missional



Church and Change has adopted the Becoming Missional model, which means turning the Sunday service into something the anti-church people like. Since Church and Changers hate Lutheran doctrine and worship, the method is perfect for them. Likewise, store owners should change their business model to appeal to burglars.


From Bailing Water:

Anonymous said...
"One side says there is danger in changing things. I think if you are prudent, change is OK. On the other hand I see this clinging to tradition just as dangerous."

No! This is the biggest strawman fallacy in this entire debate. The Church and Changers try to portray liturgical worship as a stagnant clinging to the way things have always been done. This is stupid and untrue. The liturgy is very accepting of change. That's why it has been used by Christians across the world across the centuries. The liturgy is the basic framework upon which all sorts of different musical styles and settings can be placed. High mass at the Vatican and a liturgical service in the African bush will look completely different, yet they are both the liturgy, they both focus on Christ, no man.

Contempo worship, on the other hand, is not about small, prudent change. It is about abandoning 2000 years of wisdom and history and tradition for the sake of modern trends. Think about that for a second. This is the first time in the history of the Church in which Christians have seen fit to reject wholesale everything the Church has ever done for the sake of doing their own thing and following their own desires. That's what is truly dangerous.

November 21, 2008 8:55 AM


Anonymous said...
I think we are talking about two different things. If I keep the important elements and use a different music style, I believe there is nothing wrong with this. What's wrong is clinging to high church litugical saying this is the ONLY way and not willing to budge one iota. That is dangerous.

November 21, 2008 9:38 AM


Anonymous said...
Part of the CG methodology is to start small or as an addition or as a temporary trial. Well, a little yeast leavens the whole lump. And dynamic change is the professed goal of church growth advocates. So it won't stop - as evident by those having their foot in the door already.

What's interesting, though, is the research has been done (as Freddy's posts have attested) and the methodology is a documented failure. Yet, for some reason, we should give it a shot in the Lutheran church to see what the Holy Spirit can do with it here. We're trying the same failed methods but expecting a different result. Insanity. Maybe this time it will be different...

I think it's difficult to be prudent with the experimentation because it opens up so many subjective alternatives - making church a social science project; constantly having to reinvent itself to keep up pace with the culture - a culture that abhors Christ. And once we see church as a place to go for what becomes primarily an emotional experience, we'll see the mega-church down the street can do it much better.

What is the purpose of church? Is it not to feed the sheep - even, gasp, those in the fold? What is the need that everyone has and everyone needs to feel? Forgiveness of sins. That doesn't need to be marketed, it just needs to be proclaimed. You can't minimize the Law to lessen its offensiveness. The Gospel isn't sweet without knowing the fatal situation of the flesh. This can't be watered down to make people feel comfortable. This can't be marketed to convince people it's a good buy. The Gospel doesn't need man's innovation. It only needs proclamation.

The beauty of the Divine Service is its Gospel proclamation in a reverent fashion before a Holy God with a focus on Christ. Rock and roll was designed to be associated with rebellion and to focus on man. Well, let's try hip hop then, or country, or whatever ... as long as the words include Jesus.

I believe that many of those entrapped by the CG methodology really have good intentions with a love for the lost. But we all know where even best intentions can lead.

Rob

November 21, 2008 10:18 AM


Anonymous said...
"If I keep the important elements and use a different music style, I believe there is nothing wrong with this."

And what exactly would you consider "the important elements"? And who are you to get to decide what's important or not? Two-thousand years of church history have taught us what's important and what's not.

Besides, the contempo crowd does not advocate retaining the liturgy while changing musical styles. The contempo crowd favors dumping the liturgy in favor of chancel dramas and reading mission statements in the middle of worship. Or are those the things that you deem to be "the important elements"?

November 21, 2008 11:18 AM

Becoming Missional




Scott McLaren is one of many salesmen of Becoming Missional, a new or old flavor of the Church Growth Movement. This flavor is more like chewing gum left on the bedpost overnight.

Innocents in the WELS, ELS, and Missouri should listen to these videos to arm themselves against the final destruction being accomplished by these hot air merchants.

The central message seems to be that all Sunday services must change to appeal to those who hate traditional Christianity. The Stetzer video below is fun for its weirdness. Maybe it should be called Natural Born Missionals.



As of today, Church and Change is still not admitting that they booked Babtist Ed Stetzer for their November, 2009 conference.

I Used To Give Free Donuts To Guys Who Wandered into the Bakery and Talked Like This




This man headed the seminary which trained Rev. Jeremiah Wright (God d___ America).

My father's bakery in downtown Moline often featured bizarre characters who came in and jabbered about their favorite topics, never making much sense.

CGM Dropout, Reprise



Baby Busta Gut, Sings the Oldies, Too


CGM Dropout, Church and Change Exile
With Apologies to Grease, "Beauty School Dropout"

Your story sad to tell,
A pastor ne'er do well,
Most mixed up non-Reformed kid on the block!
Your future is so clear now,
What's left of your career now?
Can't even get a job that’s worth a hoot!

Angels: (La lalala lalala lalala...)

CGM dropout,
Your handshake is like ice,.
CGM dropout,
A mistress would be nice.
Well at least you could have taken time, to fix and pad your vita,
After spending all that dough to go to Pasadena.


Reverend get moving (Reverend get movin),
Why keep your feeble hopes alive?
What are you proving (What are you provin)?
You're not loyal to the hive.

If you market what we have, you could be our new fool.
Forget the Book of Concord and go back to our School. (Fuller)

CGM dropout (CGM dropout),
Hanging around the conferences.
CGM dropout (CGM dropout),
It's about time you knew the score.

Well they couldn't teach you anything,
You think you’ve got a D.Min.
But no call will come to you unless you think and talk like vermin!

Reverend don't sweat it (Don't sweat it),
You're not cut out get a call.
Better forget it (Forget it),
Church Growth is all in all.

Now your Luther’s old, your Chemnitz’ bold, your doctrine is outrageous.
You still won’t get our nod until your parish is contagious.

Junior don't blow it,
Don't put my good advice to shame.
Junior you know it,
Even Valleskey’d say the same!

Now I've called the shot, get off the block, I really gotta fly!
Gotta be going to that beehive, in the sky!

CGM dropout (CGM dropout)
Go back to Fuller
CGM dropout (CGM dropout)
At least to Willow Creek
CCM dropout (CMG dropout)
Go back to Fuller.

Friday, November 21, 2008

Church and Change's Six Secrets:
The Not So Hidden Agenda



Baby Busta Gut,
Rehearsing for the Ed Stetzer Church and Change Conference,
November, 2009



The triangles going up to the fish's mouth represent offering money
devoured by Church and Change buddies
(free vicars for Patterson, grant for Doebler, etc).
The triangles leaving the fish's rear end
symbolize Church and Change pooping on the synod
at every opportunity, fouling the water.


Church and Change, yea verily, all Church Growthers in WELS, have followed the six secret steps promoted by Charles Arn, one of the pioneers in ruining American Protestantism. His actual words are reverently reproduced in italics below, with insightful commentary added. By me.

FIRST SECRET:
Introduce the idea as a way to reach an agreed upon goal.
The perish assistant gets the group to say something like, "We want more attendance," or "We need more youth here." Magic is misdirection of the eye, and Church Growth is misdirection of the brains. No matter what the people say, the answer is, "Contemporary Services!" Then the new program becomes what people asked for, prayed for, demanded, and paid heavily for. Perish Services wants thousands of bucks to ape Fuller and Willow Creek entertainments.

SECOND SECRET:
Introduce the idea as an addition, not a replacement.
Paul Copycat Kelm will say, "No, we are not going to take away the traditional service, where the pastor wears a rob (sic). You will add an contemporary service. More is better." The traditional service will probably be moved to 8 AM, which is earlier than the older members care to get up. Later, someone can sigh and say, "People just prefer the contemporary service." Schuller put his traditional service up in the chapel far away, at an odd time. You will never see that on TV. Besides, very few attend his traditional service.

THIRD SECRET:
Introduce the idea as a short-term experiment, not a long-term commitment. Members who question whether the change is an appropriate or wise move for the church will be more open to accepting a "trial period" in which the new idea is implemented and then evaluated.
Paul Kuske introduced his Pilgrim Community Church as "an experiment." Lutheran Parish Resources was "an experiment." CrossRoads Community Church was another VP Kuske and DP Mueller "experiment." Now the Church and Change people are experimenting all over the map. It's just like the phrase "experimenting with sex," which means doing it while pretending otherwise. Norm Teigen said the Little Sect on the Prairie did not have Church and Change congregations. When one was pointed out, he said, "It's an experiment." That is not Norm's fault - it's what Pope John the Malefactor told him. The Left Foot of Fellowship is not extended toward Church and Changers, eh, Pope John?

FOURTH SECRET:
Encourage enhancements to create ownership. Good goals are my goals; bad goals are your goals.
Group facilitation is often group manipulation. The leader frowns when the wrong suggestion is made, lights up when the right one is voiced. The group is reminded that they are voicing and voting on their own goals, but they are being guided to the kill point, just as the German tanks were at Kursk. Keeping a group going to the point of exhaustion is another good way to manipulate the outcome. They are more irritated with dissent, more passive about change.

FIFTH SECRET:
Sow seeds of creative discontent. Here is a principle of change that applies to all of life, including the church: "Voluntary change only occurs when there is sufficient discontent with the status quo."
The first thing I heard in WELS was - They are a page 5 and 15 church. The face where these sounds came from was always wrinkled in disgust, as when walking into a mess from a dog. Discontent with "boring" liturgical services was a necessary introduction to "exciting" contemporary services. This has reached its ultimate level (we hope) with that LCMS church where Satan broadcasts absurd messages on billboards. The ultimate outcome is the casting aside of anything edifying in worship. Everything is casual, entertaining, anti-traditional, and superficial. These Antinomians throw out the Ten Commandments but they replace the tablets of stone with their own myriad laws, which cannot be broken.
Adultery among the leaders? - "God forgives sinners, especially the unrepentant." Liturgical service with Holy Communion - "You are destroying our lovely church!"

SIXTH SECRET:
Start with the leaders. "A wise leader," observes Doug Murren, "will subscribe to a basic 3-step process in presenting new directions to the church: 1) explain the idea to the core group, 2) collaborate with the committed workers, and 3) share with the entire congregation,"

Ron Roth, Paul Kelm, David Valleskey, and Frosty Bivens were the first initiates into the secretive cult of Church Growth in WELS. They always jumped up to defend one another and reject any involvement with Church Growth, even to the point of denying Fuller three times. They were able to get District Popes brainwashed. World mission and American mission leaders were all sent to Fuller for total cranial cleansing, which took only a few minutes in some cases.

Church Growth apostates were installed at every level of the synod. Here is one survey of the situation by a WELS observer:

"It's in every generation back to 60s sem grads (they're some of the worst!), both Preps, the college, the Sem, every district, every state, every conference, every mission district, every area high school and day school, and probably 75 to 80% of the Circuits, half the Pastors, 90% of the teachers, and maybe even up to two thirds of the congregation leaders."

Church and Change Members Have To Learn The Truth About Stetzer Here



Many in WELS are just as appalled by Church and Change as I am.
Notice the argumentation and invention of facts, via "I heard that..."



From the Church and Change List-serve. They refused to include me on the list, but they like to talk about me.


I have been trying to uphold the C & C banner; WELS; and Confessional Lutheranism in a post modern age on Gregory L. Jackson's blog. He has a skewed MO, but his latest blog has my attention:

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2008/10/is-ed-stetzer-lying-about-church-and.html

I have been to Stetzer's blog and verified what Rev. Jackson has posted. Can anyone here verify that Ed Stetzer is in fact booked to speak at the 2009 Conference? Especially after his cutesy remarks about 'Lutheran Tribes' and his down playing of the Reformation as some trivial 'European event'? (See 8-4-08) Does he realize he would not be a Baptist able to post arrogant remarks if it weren't for Martin Luther and the posting of the 95 theses?

Sincerely In Christ,

Joe Krohn
(A Lutheran trying to remain relevant in a Post Modern World.)

[GJ - Joe's question was never answered, certainly not by Parlow, who hosted the first Church and Change conference. They even lie to their own members on their list-serve.]


Joe,

I compliment you for standing up. I have also seen this blog from Gregory L. Jackson. I don't have the answer but thank you for taking your time to look into this issue.

Rick Kozinski


OK, I may have been a little harsh on the guy. It was late and I should have refrained. After some pointed emails and a nite of rest, it seems it was in jest. I read some of his other comments and he seems to genuinely appreciate us Lutherans.

Sometimes I am just too serious. :)

Blessings,
Joe


I looked at the Gregory L. Jackson blog and was rather astounded. This man was originally an LCA pastor and then a WELS pastor. Is he still shepherding a Lutheran flock? He is no longer listed as a WELS pastor.

The Jackson blog with its three part "Stealth Congregations of the WELS" is a vicious attack on individuals and congregations. How could anyone think that such an article could be beneficial to the Kingdom of Christ? If Jackson wishes to convince WELS leadership to keep our more traditional worship style, then why not stick with a clear presentation of reasons, such as was done by Pastor Strey in the fall 2008 Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly. Pastor Strey's article "Proclaiming The Gospel In Worship" is available from his website at:
http://pastorstrey.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/proclaiming-the-gospel-in-worship/

I am a WELS lay leader who supports varied worship styles. I am also concerned about maintaining clear gospel based Lutheran worship. I do not agree with some of Pastor Strey's conclusions, but his article works to build the church through a loving examination of the situation. I see no love for the kingdom in Pastor Jackson's blog.

Mark Bergemann
To God be the glory


Mark,
It is my understanding that Jackson left the WELS (and the ELS) some time ago. It is my recall that the issue was doctrinal and specifically that Jackson does not believe in objective justification.

[GJ - Let's try clergy adultery and Church Growth supported by the Michigan District leaders and pastors. The facts pinch a bit, don't they?]


With best regards,
Harvey Dunn

Gregory Jackson's situation and history are easy to oversimplify considering all that's there. Suffice it to say that he is no longer a part of the LCA, the LC-MS, the WELS/ELS, or the CLC. There may be other bodies in which he has either studied or served but I can't recall any off the top of my head.

[GJ - What omniscience does Aaron Frey have? He does not know me and has no contact with me. He just proved he is willing to substitute his ignorant comments for actual facts. He cannot even come to grips with the doctrinal issues in WELS' Pietistic double-justification.]

His blog has little to commend it. My experience with his writings is that they are not entirely truthful (and I am speaking only of those articles that spoke of situations in which I had personal involvement). If you read his stuff about Objective Justification, I think you will find that it reveals a mind of great intellect but little subtlety and not enough patience to deal with people in the process of dialoging until we truly understand one another's words and then either reject or accept one another as brothers with all the issues on the table. My conclusion is that his issue with Objective Justification is with the confusing nature of the term, not with the actual WELS confession concerning justification. However, he can't seem to separate the two. Quite frankly, I think the problem that he and others have had with it are evidence that it wasn't a great term in the first place. It requires so much explanation so as to be not misunderstood that we might be better off just using different terms when speaking of the full payment Jesus has made for the sins of the whole world.

As for the speaker at the 2009 Church and Change gathering, I hope the information is incorrect and that Ed somehow greatly misunderstood some communication from the Church and Change board--or that, for some reason, the keynote address at the conference has only tangental relationship to what the church should be doing to fulfill its mission more faithfully, which is an inherently spiritual and theological topic. More information from any of the board members who follow this forum would be appreciated.

Aaron Frey


Someone in my training (Prof Harstad at Bethany Seminary, maybe?) opined about the Gregory Jackson (and similar incidents) with the theory that those coming from a heterodox church body into an orthodox church body are so used to fighting doctrinal fights that the behavior continues. Not to defend the essays of Dr. Jackson, just maybe look at it in another vein. You know that "best construction" adage.

[GJ - Harstad does not know me, but he is known for joining the Amen Chorus for Church Growth in the ELS. Maybe Harstad has a chip on his shoulder?]

John Hoh, Jr.

Prof. Harstad's (or whoever's) observation seems very insightful. It reminds us also that when we are part of a church body that appears to receive correction but changes nothing, we no longer belong to an orthodox church body. That is why I will be watching what happens with the 2009 C&C keynote address speaker. It is hard to imagine a context in which we can have Ed Stetzer take the stage in front of us for an address that doesn't come out as a violation of the principles God has given us when it comes to handling false teachers.

Romans 16:17-18 says, "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."

The verb for "watch out for" in verse 17 is skopeo in Greek. It means to scrutinize something, investigate it carefully. That's not what we're doing with false teachers when we pay them to take the stage in front of us in order to set the tone for a conference on how to carry out the mission of the church faithfully. We're sitting at his feet. We're giving him the floor. We're not being critical of his teaching at all. This is exactly what we did in 2005 with Leonard Sweet. No correction. No criticism. Just a standing ovation, a check, a handshake and continual praise for the message he had delivered.

Now, if we believe him to be a brother who is just misled in his weaknesses, then our duty of love to him is clear: Correct him. Matthew 18, of course, is oft quoted in this regard. But consider Titus 3:10, too, which deals more directly with the teacher who falls into false doctrine: "Warn a divisive person once, then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him." Are we bringing Ed Stetzer in to warn him? Certainly not by any outward indication, and such an indication would be necessary to distinguish such an engagement from the invitation to Sweet in 2005. We are inviting him before us to speak on the very topic in which his false doctrine most plainly manifests itself: The "health" of congregations and their mission (he is the "missiologist in residence" for LifeWay Research, a division of one of the publishing arms of the Southern Baptist Convention--cf. www.lifewayresearch.com.).

Believe me, I have a lot of frustrations in my ministry and a lot of concern about the health of my congregation, but I'm not going to be addressing those concerns in a godly way if I violate God's direction. We will serve our people and our prospects better if we hold to the Word and stay away from false teaching. If we refuse to do that, then it's no wonder that pastors who join us from heterodox bodies can see no difference between us and the bodies they left.

Members of the C&C board, it is a necessity that you set consciences at ease on this matter which you have done in view of the entire church. This man is not an accountant or an architect who speaks only on external, common sense matters. He is a congregational spiritual health consultant. I'm sure that makes him a fascinating guy to scrutinize as men of God called to watch over the flocks entrusted to us. But we serve neither our flocks nor Ed's endangered soul when we pay him to stand in front of our people and talk with them about what improves a congregation's health. His teachings show that he doesn't even know what that is. Just look at the featured quotes from Ed in this article from Baptist Press http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=26914). The article is all about the rise in the number of confessing Calvinists graduating from Southern Baptist Convention seminaries. While that ought to concern Ed as a missiologist because the message being sent is distorted (even from a Baptist's perspective), all he can say is, "At the end of the day, Calvinists and non-Calvinists alike in our churches are failing to engage lostness in North America. This theological discussion has to lead to missional action and that missional action needs to cause Calvinists and non-Calvinists alike to love each other and to encourage each other and to provoke one another on to love and good deeds."

I think that we addressed it well from the floor at the last Church and Change Conference, but it did become obvious that some of our members who are excited about evangelism have difficulty seeing doctrinal purity as an integral part of mission. Ed would obviously make that worse. As I proofed this message (I sat on it for a few days, following the good advice of our moderator), Ed was finishing up a speaking engagement with the American Society for Church Growth. We serve ourselves, our Savior and our people well when we distance ourselves from such organizations and from people who take leading roles in them--unless, of course, we are coming to them to correct them in love.

Members of the board, please address this in the listserv as well as on the C&C website. And don't relegate it to the discussion listserv, either. This is "a place where [we] can talk about any issue in a safe and caring environment" (that's from our etiquette document). Here's my issue, my idea I want to discuss for sharing the message of God with the lost better than ever: Let's stop inviting false teachers in to set the tone for our gatherings about sharing the message with the lost. Now let's share.

In his name,
Aaron Frey

PS We have so many members within our own midst with so much expertise, any of whom would be better than a false teacher. Even I could do it! I did a whole Bible class from scratch a couple of years ago called "Straight Talk on Evangelism: How to Speak Like the Apostle who Took the World by Storm." It was very well received, my Bible class attendance surged (in case you wonder about such things) and I've even had more people in BIC since then. I think I could easily boil that down into the time of a typical keynote address. I know it would be easy to read facetiousness into that, but, believe me, this is said with complete sincerity.


Friends,

I thought this Q & A was very helpful for our discussions about the importance of always trying to seek an audience for the Gospel in our ministry contexts. It certainly addresses some of our "excuses"!

Q:
I have always been taught that the doctrine of predestination/election was given to comfort and assure believers that your heavenly Father loves you and that his providing you with a Savior and the gift of faith through the Holy Spirit is fully dependent on God, not yourself. Recently I have read on WELS blogs that some appear to use this doctrine as an excuse to refuse to change the things that can change so we can share the Gospel with more people. It seems some
pastors use the doctrine as an excuse for failing to reach out to their communities. Some even say, "God knows those who are his and he will bring them to us. All I need to do is be faithful. Exploring new ways to reach people with the Gospel is an indication that you don't trust in the Means of Grace. It's Church Growth!" Isn't that misusing the doctrine of election? If such thinking were true why would God make us a part of his ministry on earth (Matthew 28)?

A:
I sense that your question is really rhetorical, but the point you make is certainly valid. The doctrine of election has been revealed to mature believers for our comfort. God certainly did not intend it to furnish us with a pretext for carnal security. We don’t draw from it the conclusion that there is no possibility of our being lost and therefore no need for us to nourish our faith with the means of grace.

In the same way, carnal security is involved if we conclude that, because God won't fail to gather his elect into his kingdom, there is no need for us to reach out with the Gospel. The Gospel proclaimed by his church is the means by which God gathers his elect, and proclaiming it is our God-given task.

As for faithfulness, God calls us to be faithful, not just with the means of grace, but with everything that he has put into our hands--our time and energy, our people and their gifts, and even human arts and sciences. It is an odd concept of faithfulness that refuses to explore how all of these could be used in the service of the Gospel, for fear that to do this is somehow Church
Growth.

That said, there is a valid concern on the other side. The Church Growth Movement confuses methodology derived from the social sciences with the means of grace as “the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes (Romans 1:17). It automatically equates God-pleasing growth with growth in numbers and attributes the growth of the church to technique correctly applied rather than to the blessing of a gracious God. None of this is scriptural; and because its not scriptural, it's not Lutheran (AC V).

It is one thing for us, when our very best evangelism efforts do not bring the visible results that we had hoped for, to take comfort in the fact that the salvation of the elect is ultimately God's job, and God will see that the job gets done. It is another thing entirely to use this truth as an excuse for slipshod efforts at evangelism or none at all.

"Dream big ... the Word works!

John Parlow

"So I run straight to the goal with purpose in every step. I am not like a boxer who misses his punches."; -- 1 Cor. 9:26 (NLT)


Dennis, thanks for the reminders to take each other's words and actions in the kindest way possible. Maybe the person who posted the original question on the WELS.net Q&A forum might have been more careful with his (or her) words. (And, of course, we owe him/her the same charity.)

Thanks, also, for coming back to the real issue at the end of your remarks:

" 'Changing how we do things' has value if, and only if, it gives more opportunity for God's people to be the Holy Spirit's handiwork, as he works in them daily contrition, repentance, and renewal through Law and Gospel."

That actually sounds very much like the goal of Church and Change:

"Church and Change folk are... thinking about, working with, and pioneering different ways to reach more people, more often, with the gospel so the Holy Spirit can do His thing..."

That's from C&C's website. And isn't that a rather good description of faithfuness (as long as we're on the subject)?
Mike Borgwardt

[GJ - Borgwardt is one of the stealth congregation pastors, CrossEyes or something like that.]


Doesn't the Great Commission say, "GO INTO the world and MAKE disciples...." It doesn't say, "Wait in your churches and I will bring the crops to you." Coming from a farm, the feature of going to the fields for the harvest is ripe doesn't mean I sit in the barn or granary and the grain will come. I actually have to hop aboard my John Deere combine and actually go out into the field and get the crop. Even in inclement weather (lest my lack of action would forfeit my crop).

If we as a church body have to have people tell us how to reach people today, then I wonder how well we are training people. OK, bad analogy when 5% attend Bible class (and I provide study sheets and no one takes them home for personal study, but I'll let you draw your own conclusion). If we don't know about the people around us, are we not connecting with neighbors, co-workers, etc.? Are we socializing with *only* other church people? (I know there are "Christian Business Directories" out there that don't help matters.) Take one day a week to read a copy of the "Wall Street Journal." For a business newspaper it may seem amazing what they report and write on, yet how do businesses find where trend are going or where the next trend is coming? They read what's happening in society. Makes sense to me.

We cannot assume people have a reverence for church or see it as relevant. A generation has stayed away from church; the following generation does not know what church is or what church is about.

Yet people seek spirituality and answers in life. I hope that Bible studies in our synod do more than study the Bible as a collection of historical books. I hope we teach in a way that touches hearts, makes personal application, shows the people in the Bible as real, living, breathing, blood-flowing and flawed individuals.

But we do need to"get out there." We need to take the Gospel to the streets and teach it in all its truth and purity. God does promise to do all the work behind the scenes to create and strengthen faith. But he calls us to be the face of His Gospel.

A book to read is by Thom Rainer's "The Unchurched Next Door." This book looks at prospects and "grades" them from 1 to 5 based on where they start in their faith life. It's rare for someone to jump from a "5" to a "1." It proposes an incremental approach to faith buildling and witnessing. (Of course that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit cannot effect such a change; I think St. Augistine is an example.) Even at that, even if new people come through our church doors, do we have patience to build that relationship and grow, like a child, in faith? Or do we burden them with "Christian" obligations without training and timely instruction?

As for the doctrine of Election, I have always wondered why a church body that teaches "Some saved, others condemned" (double pre-destination) even has an evangelism program. Seems kind of pointless, no, to evangelize if the destination is already determined? It makes as much sense as the couple that knocks on my door to save me, then tell me only 144,000 will get to heaven and that the 144,000 have already been selected, and there is no place called hell, but we want to save you. Save me from what?

JOHN L. HOH, JR.


John, I have to correct a few points you made that would likely lead some astray in this discussion.

First, I couldn't agree more with the report of the commission passages task force at the last convention regarding commission passages. There are things I'm still working out in their report, but you can't argue this one point they made: What makes Matthew 28 the Great Commission? We don't know who ever gave it that name, and it is certainly not to be considered with greater weight than other commission passages.

Secondly, the go in Matthew 28:19 is a rhetorical device in Greek that indicates a change in the direction of the story or approach. In this case the context would plainly indicate the change from going only to the lost sheep of Israel to going to all nations. While I would agree that it would be unfaithful never to say a word of the gospel to anyone but the folks inside our church, the command in Matthew 28 doesn't give us an indication of how much we should be knocking door-to-door and how much we should be preaching in our churches. For most of the Apostles, it was years before they ever left Jerusalem, and, while they were there, the church got its message out just as much through joining together in the Temple (and even in believers' homes!) as it did any other way that has been indicated to us (cf. Acts 2:42-47).

Even so, Thom Rainer would be a bad fountain of knowledge to turn to. Here's the motivation and foundation of his research according to pages 22 and 23 of The Unchurched Next Door:

Perhaps as much as any information we gleaned throughout this process, we have been amazed at how much unchurched people look and act like us, Christian churchgoers. At first glance such a statement may seem appalling, for Christians are to be "the light of the world" and "the salt of the earth." We are supposed to be significantly different from the lost and unchurched world.

I do not mean to suggest that there are no differences between a lost and a saved person. Obviously one has been saved by Christ and one has not. One is heavenbound and the other is hellbound. One is, it is hoped, motivated to do those things that please the Savior; the other has no such foundation.

But when I speak of common ties, I am referring to that which takes place in the everyday walks of life. Most of the unchurched are concerned for their families. Their moral values are not radically different from ours. They work alongside us, and their children and our children play together. Some of the unchurched are the teachers of our children. The unchurched live in our neighborhoods and carry on friendly conversations with us. They often carry the same financial burdens we do, and they are just as patriotic as we are. And many of the unchurched live in the same home we do; they are our family members.

Yet I have been in churches where a Christian leader has spoken of the "pagans" as if they are fire-breathing aliens from another planet. They are often stereotyped as angry at Christians, doubtful of the existence of God, and bitter toward the church. Yet the reality is that 95 percent of the unchurched would meet none of these descriptions.

The faith stages concept helped us immensely in our understanding of the demeanor of the unchurched world. Only the U5s were antagonistic toward the gospel and angry at the church. Yet the U5 group accounted for only 5 percent of the unchurched in America.

How amazingly naive is this? He had to do a research project to discover that the unchurched aren't fire-breathing aliens who are totally atheistic and bitter toward the church? I can learn that from Jesus' ministry, especially from his encounters with the Pharisees. And Jesus didn't go up to them and say, "You know, you and I have a lot in common. We both care about the temple. We both care about our country. We both love our moms." Jesus preached as Paul and all other faithful preachers of the gospel do, with the assumption that people without faith are dead in transgressions and sins (Ephesians 2), completely hostile to God (Romans 8) and yet completely unable to understand these truths because such things are spiritually discerned (1Co 2). He preached a message of repentance to those who thought they were close to God without faith in the Savior (the U1s on the "Rainer Scale" or receptivity), just as he would have preached repentance to those who were antagonistic toward the church (U5s). He reached them not through what they held in common but with the offense of the cross at the fore.

I remember sitting back in unbelief when I read what Rainer wrote about only 5 percent of the population in America being antagonistic toward the gospel. Such a statement displays a complete misunderstanding of what the gospel is, brothers and sisters. The paper I was researching for when I first read this is called Tendrils of the Church Growth Movement and it is available in the Files section of the listserv website, if you would like to read what I discovered about receptivity scales and other tools of the modern evangelicals who are looking for "effective" ways to preach the gospel to unbelievers. They don't understand the gospel and they don't understand conversion. That means they don't understand the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.

Could we possibly learn something interesting from their books? Possibly. Incidentally. But do not seek their wisdom for carrying out God's will for the church. Leave them, brothers and sisters. They are blind guides. Anything we actually need in order to carry out the will of God for saving the lost is already in the Scriptures that God has given us, and the Holy Spirit will lead us into that truth without us having to go to false teachers that he warns us to avoid.

In his name,
Aaron Frey


***

GJ - I think they should open up their list-serve to the public, so everyone can see what deep thinkers and fact-seekers inhabit Church and Change.

A doctor of divinity asked me if Leonard Sweet actually spoke at a WELS conference apart from the one canceled. One writer above seems to say Sweet did. I am not sure. I know Church and Changed pouted ferociously when they were challenged openly and the Sweet-Hunter-Werning event was deep-sixed. I would have gone there just to see the Church Doctor (Hunter) speaking in tandem with the Dr. Kevorkian of Evangelism (Werning).

UOJ Comes from Halle Pietism - Not From the Scriptures, Luther, or the Confessions



Suddenly the UOJ Stormtrooper realized he was in the wrong denomination.


UOJ fanatics - here is your theologian, George Christian Knapp, Professor at Halle University. The book was widely used throughout America, printed in German and translated into English by one of the best known Protestant leaders of the time.

The copy on my desk is from 1859, but Knapp was already translated by Woods from German in 1833. Books were relatively few in number then, but I ended up with two copies of Knapp from 150 years ago. Knapp's Lectures must have been like copies of Reader's Digest Condensed Books.

The English editions show how popular Knapp was in the 19th century. The Missouri Synod leaders were more familiar with German, so an edition printed in both languages was bound to be appealing. Doubtless all the Midwest Lutheran clergy were very familiar with German as the language of theology. That is no longer true at the same seminaries they established.

Here are some statements from the English edition, 8th, 1859, p. 397ff:

The Scripture doctrine of pardon or justification through Christ, as an universal and unmerited favour of God.

1. The Universality of this Benefit

It is universal as the atonement itself...If the atonement extends to the whole human race, justification must also be universal--i.e., all must be able to obtain the actual forgiveness of their sins and blessedness on account of the atonement of Christ. But in order to obviate mistakes, some points may require explanation.

*[Translator note - This is very conveniently expressed by the terms objective and subjective justification. Objective justification is the act of God, by which he profers pardon to all through Christ; subjective is the act of man, by which he accepts the pardon freely offered in the gospel. The former is universal, the latter not.]


Read it from Google here, link provided by Bruce Church.

***

GJ - Note that the translator was using these new terms, objective and subjective, in 1859, perhaps as early as 1833, when the work was first done. The print edition uses italics for those two terms.

Knapp taught at Halle University, a school set up by Spener to teach his version of unionistic theology.

Knapp rejected the efficacy of the Sacraments, pooh-poohing infant faith, in these lectures.

Some questions to be pursued:
1. What did Tholuck teach at Halle? That would tell us more about Hoenecke.
2. How extensive was this double-justification language?

Read Your Own Copy of Knapp


Google Books copy of Knapp's Christian Theology lectures.

New Governor of Arizona Is LCMS Member, Stone's Throw from Ichabod Global Headquarters



Jan Brewer, GOP, Secretary of State, will inherit the governor's job when Napolitano accepts an appointment to D.C.




Christ Lutheran Church, LCMS, Peoria, Arizona,
north of 75th Avenue and Thunderbird


"Gov. Janet Napolitano's appointment to the incoming Obama administration would put a Republican at the state's helm, potentially leading to harsher budget cuts and a U-turn on state policy governing everything from gun restrictions to abortion.

One thing is certain: It would dramatically alter the Arizona political landscape.

Napolitano's departure, which could come in weeks, would place Republican Secretary of State Jan Brewer, 64, in control of the Governor's Office. It would be the first time since 2002 that the GOP has controlled both the executive and legislative branches of state government, giving the party its best opportunity in years to enact a conservative agenda.

More blunt was state Sen. Ken Cheuvront, a Phoenix Democrat: "It's going to be a travesty. We will have no one to stop the extremist legislation that inevitably will be put forward by the Republican majority."

Office remains mum

Speculation on Napolitano's departure ran wild at the Capitol on Thursday, although her office was again mum. The governor didn't appear for an afternoon closed-door meeting with Cabinet members, according to multiple sources. Brewer hasn't been notified of anything by Napolitano or her staff and issued a statement declining to comment until she knows more.

She would serve the remaining two years of Napolitano's term, inheriting a state with a budget more than $1 billion out of balance, a flagging economy and a host of tough choices in terms of spending cuts.

The change in leadership could be most dramatic in how the state handles that shortfall."

---

"Secretary of State Jan Brewer, a Republican, will become governor if Janet Napolitano leaves the position to become secretary of Homeland Security. Brewer has been active in state and county government for 26 years, serving as a member of the state House, the Senate and the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors. Here is a brief look at her life, career and accomplishments.

Biography

Age: 64.

Residence: Glendale.

Moved to Arizona: 1970.

Family: Married to Dr. John Brewer Mother of three sons, one of whom died in 2007 after a lengthy illness.

Education: Radiological technologist certification.

Church: A member of Life in Christ Lutheran Church in Peoria.

Former occupation: Small-business owner.

Community and professional activities: A charter member of Luke Fighter Country Partnership, dedicated to preserving the missions of Luke Air Force Base. A board member of Hope and a Future, Child Help USA and Arizonans for Children and a member of the Arrowhead Republican Women's Club, the Arizona Rifle and Pistol Association and the Japanese-American Citizens League.


Timeline

1982: Elected to the state House of Representatives.

1986: Elected to the state Senate.

1993: Chosen majority whip of the Senate.

1996: Elected to the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, eventually serving as chairwoman.

2002: Elected Arizona Secretary of State; re-elected in 2006.


Legislative highlights

1988: Offered an emotional defense of Republican Gov. Evan Mecham when the state Senate voted to impeach him and remove him from office. She described his actions as "shockingly self-centered and far beneath the standards the people of Arizona have a right to expect," but said the governor's error was not enough to convict him. "The charge is not arrogance, incompetence or insensitivity, all of which I believe this governor is guilty of. It is obstruction of justice," she said.

1990: Sponsored legislation to require labeling of record albums with "offensive" lyrics so that no one under 18 could purchase them. She cited the state's responsibility in safeguarding the health and welfare of its youths as the constitutional justification in passing such a bill. Although the bill did not become law, the recording industry introduced a uniform warning label for albums with explicit lyrics and expressed hope that an improved voluntary system would halt campaigns in states such as Arizona for mandatory labeling. "We accomplished what we wanted to," Brewer said.

1994: Fought successfully to put a measure on the November ballot that would create the position of lieutenant governor, who, rather than the secretary of state, would be first in line to become governor. Voters defeated the measure.

2003: As secretary of state, took the lead in federal election reform by compiling the Help America Vote Act State Plan, leading to voting reforms that included touch-screen voting devices for voters with disabilities and a centralized and uniform voter-registration system.

2007: Also as secretary of state, spearheaded legislation to move the state's primary election a week earlier to give elections officials more time to deal with ballot challenges and to get the general-election ballot printed in time.

Qualifications to be governor

When Brewer ran for secretary of state in 2002, The Arizona Republic asked her about her qualifications to serve as governor should the office become vacant. While saying she had no aspirations to hold the position, she cited her experience owning and operating several businesses, as well as her long service in the Legislature. Perhaps most notably, she pointed to her work on the Board of Supervisors in helping Maricopa County revive its fortunes.

"Maricopa County had been designated the worst-run county in the country. . . . When I was elected chairman, I put out an edict that instituted a new way to do business. We implemented pay-as-you-go, reduced our long-term debt, got our bond rating back and didn't demoralize our employees."

She noted that in December 2001, before she resigned to run for secretary of state, the county was honored by Governing magazine as the "best-run county in the country."

What's next

If Brewer takes over as governor, her most formidable task would be to deal with the state's billion-dollar-plus budget deficits for this year and 2009-2010. The 2009 legislative session begins Jan. 12, and Napolitano traditionally has unveiled her budget plan during the first or second week of the session. But even before that, Brewer and lawmakers may have to take the initial steps in dealing with this year's shortfall."

Thursday, November 20, 2008

George Christian Knapp, UOJ Inventor, Was Translated into English by an Influential Protestant, L. Woods


Leonard Woods was quite famous as an American Protestant leader.

WOODS, Leonard, clergyman, born in Princeton, Massachusetts, 19 June, 1774; died in Andover, Massachusetts, 24 August, 1854. His father, Samuel, possessed "Puritanic piety," and his habits of serious thought on metaphysical subjects obtained for him the title of "Philosopher Woods." The son was brought up strictly, and while very young was conversant with the works of John Locke and Jonathan Edwards. He was graduated at Harvard in 1796, taught, studied theology at Somers, Connecticut, and in 1798 was ordained pastor at Newbury, Massachusetts When the Andover theological seminary was founded in 1808 he became professor of Christian theology there, holding that chair for thirty-eight years, and becoming professor emeritus in 1846. Dartmouth gave him the degree of D. D. in 1810. Dr. Woods was active in the establishment of the American tract society, the Temperance society, and the board of commissioners of foreign missions, of whose prudential committee he was a member for twenty-five years. He ably defended orthodox Calvinism against Unitarian theology, and while he admitted improvements in theologians and theological science, thought theological truths were fixed and unalterable. His literary reputation dates from his contribution in 1805 of a series of papers in the " Panoplist," a religious periodical, in which he defended Calvinism against Joseph Buckminster, William Channing, and other Unitarian divines. Dr. Henry B. Smith says of him : "He is emphatically the' judicious ' divine of the later New England theology. He educated more than 1,000 preachers, who had neither crotchets nor airy aims." He left in manuscript a "History of Andover Seminary." His publications in-chide " Letters to Unitarians" (Andover, 1820) ; "Lectures on the Inspiration of the Scriptures" (1829); " Memoirs of American Missionaries" (1833); " Examination of the Doctrine of Perfection" (1841); "Lectures on Church Government" (New York, 1843);" Lectures on Swedenborgianism" (1846); and his collected works, containing lectures, essays, sermons, and reviews (5 vols., Andover, 1849-'50).
His son, Leonard, scholar, born in Newbury, Massachusetts, 24 November, 1807; died in Boston, Massachusetts, 24 December, 1878, was graduated at Union college in 1827 and at Andover theological seminary in 1830. In 1831-'3 he was resident graduate scholar at Andover, and in 1833 he was licensed to preach. His private pupil, Richard Henry Dana, says of him: " At the age of twenty-four years he had been the first scholar in the Phillips academy, the first in every branch at Union, had been graduated at the Theological seminary the acknowledged foremost man of his period, and had published a translation of Knapp's 'Christian Theology, ' enriched with a long and fully thought-out preface, with original notes showing profound scholarship. He was assisting Professor Stuart in his commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, ' and aiding Professor Robinson in editing the ' Biblical Repository, ' then the most scholastic periodical in America, and was assistant instructor of Hebrew in the seminary." He edited the " Literary and Theological Review" in New York city in 18"34-'7, and although that periodical was the organ of the Presbyterian and Congregational churches, he directly opposed the opinions of many of its supporters, objecting to the proposals of temperance and anti-slavery societies and popular revivalists, and to the German Reformation, and defending the few and simple conditions of admission into the Anglican communion, as compared with the minute requirements of doctrine in his own church. He was professor of sacred literature in Bangor theological seminary in 1836-'9, and from 1839 till 1866 president of Bowdoin. He never accepted a pastoral charge, but occasionally delivered sermons and addresses. He went abroad in 1833, and contracted friendships with eminent theologians in Rome and in Oxford. His familiarity with the classics caused him to be congratulated by Gregory XVI. for his "excellent Latin and the richness of his discourse," and the Oxford theology having won his approval, he was the theological champion and personal friend of Dr. Edward B. Pusey. "He was even more remarkable, perhaps, for his conversations than for his public addresses," says his biographer, Professor Edwards A. Park. Having resigned the presidency of Bowdoin in 1866 (see the accompanying vignette), he accepted from the legislature of Maine a commission to visit Europe to obtain materials for the early history of the state. "He engaged the assistance of Dr. John G. Kohl in the work, which subsequently assumed shape in his "Discovery of Maine" (Portland, Maine, 1868), and procured the Hakluyt manuscript of the "Westerne Planting." Dr. Woods was preparing this document for the press when his health declined, and the papers were completed and published by Charles Deane, in the "Proceedings of the Maine Historical Society" (Portland, 1877). Dr. Woods furnished other valuable matter, which appeared in the 1st and 2d volumes of the publications of that society, and was engaged in further work when his materials were destroyed by a fire that consumed his entire library. Harvard gave him the degree of D. D. in 1846, and Bowdoin that of LL. D. in 1866. Besides the works already referred to, including his translation of George Christian Knapp's "Christian Theology" (2 vols., New York, 1831-'3), Dr. Woods published an "Address on the Life and Character of Parker Cleveland (Portland, Maine, 1859), and "Address on the Opening of the New Medical Hall of the Medical School of Maine" {1862). See a "Memorial " of him. by Edwards A. Park (Andover, 1880), and an article by Richard H. Dana in the "Century Magazine" for June, 1881.

Edited Appletons Encyclopedia, Copyright © 2001 VirtualologyTM

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Leonard Woods (1807-78) was the fourth president of Bowdoin College.

Life and career

"Born in Newbury, Massachusetts, Woods attended Phillips Andover Academy before graduating from Union College in 1827. After having graduated from Andover Theological Seminary, he made a translation of George Christian Knapp's Christian Theology, which became long used as a textbook in American theological seminaries. "


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From the Net

(7.) George Christian Knapp, Lectures on Christian Theology, trans. Leonard Woods Jr. (Philadelphia: J. W. Moore, 1851). According to Woods's biographer Edwards Amasa Park, the Lectures on Christian Theology was first published at Andover Theological Seminary in 1831. Park, The Life and Character of Leonard Woods (Andover, Mass.: Warren F. Draper, 1880), 8.

(8.) For a discussion of Knapp, see John Ker, Lectures on the History of Preaching (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1888), 224-25; and B. B. Edwards and E. A. Park, Selections from German Literature (Andover, Mass.: Gould, Newman, and Saxton, 1839), 204-5.

(9.) Woods's private papers show that as early as 1832 he was exchanging books in German by both Tholuck and Neander with John Yates, a professor at Union College. John A. Yates to Leonard Woods Jr., Nov. 6, 1832, and Yates to Woods, Dec. 5, 1832. In the first-named letter, Yates asked Woods, "when you visit Germany I wish you would bring back another copy [of Neander's Church History] in manuscript or (it maybe published) in print for which I will pay you the cost." Leonard Woods Papers, Bowdoin College Archives, Brunswick, Me. For the influence of the German mediating theology on American Congregationalism, see Robert T. Hardy, A History of Union Theological Seminary in New York (New York: Columbia University Press, 1987), 2-25.

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Where did Knapp teach? Halle University - the warm womb of Pietism.

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Tholuck taught at Halle. He is far better known today than Knapp. Here is Wikipedia on Tholuck.

Here he made it his aim to combine in a higher unity the learning and to some extent the rationalism of Johann Salomo Semler with the devout and active pietism of A H Francke; and, in spite of the opposition of the theological faculty of the university, he succeeded in changing the character of its theology.

This he achieved partly by his lectures, but above all by his personal influence on the students, and, after 1833, by his preaching. His theological position was orthodox, but laid more stress upon Christian experience than upon rigid dogmatic belief.


Hoenecke was Tholuck's pupil, maybe even his star pupil.
So we have Knapp's book used all over America as a doctrinal book. The advantage it had for the Synodical Conference was its printing both in German and English.
Knapp's book was available in time for the Synodical Conference to form.
So the next question is - what did Knapp teach and did other influential (non-Lutheran) theologians teach the same thing?

SP Schroeder



Comments featured on Issues, Etc.



WELS President: Church Growth Q & A
November 10, 2008 by Rick

This question and answer recently appeared on the WELS Q & A website. Normally the questions are answered anonymously, but this question was answered and signed by WELS President Mark Schroeder:


"Q: I have one grandfather that was an LCMS minister and another was a WELS minister. I understand the history of their division and I accept the need. What I fear there is a trend in WELS to follow the same route as LCMS. In the desire to increase church attendance many WELS congregations are not making a solid doctrinal stand. Law and Gospel are still present but one must look for it. Do these same concerns exist at our seminaries and synod offices?

A: Thank you for your concern about the centrality of Law and Gospel in our preaching and teaching. God has promised that his Church will endure until Jesus returns again, but he has made no promises that individual church bodies or synods will always be blessed with the pure doctrine. That is why the words of the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:2 are such an important reminder for our synod: “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel which I preached to you and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you will have believed in vain.” In other words, our synod and its congregations will need to be vigilant in holding on to the truth of Scripture and careful to preach solid Law and Gospel boldly and consistently.

I assure you that I share these concerns, and I know that our seminary faculty would say the same. As we face declining numbers in worship and in church membership, we will want to avoid the temptation to resort to methods or “quick fixes” which rely on something other than the means of grace, which alone can bring people to know their Savior and through which the Holy Spirit will work. All efforts to increase church attendance and membership need to be carefully evaluated in the light of God’s Word, not on the basis of “what works.” If we water down the message of Law and Gospel, if we change the message to a generic message that simply tells people what they want to hear (instead of what they need to hear), we will eventually have no gospel message left. We may fill churches, but the danger is that those churches will be filled with people whose true spiritual needs—the call to repentance and the assurance of full forgiveness in Christ—will not be met.

Please keep our synod, its congregations, and its pastors in your prayers as we address these important matters. Thank you for your concern.

In Christ,
Mark Schroeder, WELS president
[e-mail: mark.schroeder[at]sab.wels[dot]net]"

The watering down of Law and Gospel in our preaching and teaching is an extremely serious matter. In these difficult times, please pray also for President Schroeder, all laymen, and the one true Christian Church. We need God’s help.

***

GJ - This was copied from Rick, who copied it from WELS.net. There are some hints that Schroeder got his ideas from the Book of Concord. He sure did not learn this at the last Church and Change conference or at the WELS Airport.

Kelm may copy me on this: Faithfulness to the Word is success. I copied that from the ending of Walther's Law and Gospel, and Walther got it from Luther, so you can borrow it from me and pretend you made it up on your own.

---

From Bailing Water:


Anonymous said...
I didn't take it that Ben had already sold out to C&C, just as bored with his traditional service and curious about contemporary. I also took him seriously inquiring as Freddy did, and thought he was approaching it rationally. That is unlike many C&C advocates who I think would find Freddy's argument difficult to refute.It's interesting to me, in viewing a bit about Ed Stetzer, it seems his battle is against the conservatives in the Southern Baptist denomination as well, not unlike what the church growth crowd finds in WELS. That really defines it as a methodology for me.And, as kind of an aside, it is curious to me that WELS (even conservative WELS) would rather read something from outside of Lutheranism than something from someone from Missouri. Just an observation. I read Parton's article about white-wine pietists, written over a decade ago, and things haven't changed much. An interesting short read if you have the time.Rob
November 19, 2008 7:51 PM

rlschultz said...
Rob,Your observation about conservative WELS laity reading outside of Lutheranism is spot on. I have noticed that in my own WELS congregation. Lifelong WELS members quickly jump on the latest evangelical book offering without being faithful Bereans. It is very disheartening. One explanation that I heard is that that there is so much that is wrong in the secular realm, that we should use whatever we can from "Christian" resources. All that glitters is not gold. As a WELS lifer, I can say with a great degree of certainty that we have been taught in a subtle way to hate Missouri. Yes, NPH sells some of the more common books of Walther, etc. Apparently, the synodical conference breakup has created a lot of bad blood. Still, it would be great to see WELS members think outside of the synod box. Unfortunately, my assessment is that there is a great degree of ignorance of the Lutheran Confessions among WELS laity. This may explain why we are in the current mess.
November 20, 2008 7:00 AM

Anonymous said...
"my assessment is that there is a great degree of ignorance of the Lutheran Confessions among WELS laity."Which comes from their pastors which comes from the Seminary. Sad, but true.
November 20, 2008 8:48 AM

Anonymous said...
To be honest, I think you are seeing a subtle shift in some of the younger fresh-out-of-seminary pastors, who seem to be taking a more confessional stance. Maybe it's just me, but that's my take.Also, I would suggest that anyone who has any interest in worship (and it seems like most here do) read "Gathered Guests" by Timothy Maschke. It is wonderful book that I found I couldn't put down. It is a book that the worship mavens in WELS think highly of (the Aaron Christies etc.), and is considered to be one of the top resources on Lutheran liturgical worship.Mr. Humility Police
November 20, 2008 10:19 AM

Enthusiasm-->Pietism-->UOJ-->Church and Change-->Doom




Universal Objective Justification owns the Synodical Conference partners: WELS, LCMS, ELS, even the nano-sects like the CLCs and LCR.

They are all doomed, bankrupt with Schwan's 30 pieces of silver, owned by Fuller, Willow Creek, Leonard Sweet, and Ed Stetzer.

UOJ Study and Commentary



UOJ has Spener for their father.


Bible study, Evergreen Lutheran High School Board of directors, Pastor Nathan Seiltz – 10/26/08

A. Objective justification is universal. Scripture teaches that God has reconciled the world to himself. This includes all people, believers and unbelievers. All, believers and unbelievers, have deserved death and damnation. Jesus came as the substitute for all. He obeyed the law for all. He died in the place of everyone. When Jesus rose, he rose as the substitute for every sinner. By his resurrection God declared sinners, all of them, forgiven. [GJ - Justification does mean the declaration of forgiveness, but where is this declaration of forgiveness for the whole world found in the Scriptures? It is found in the Brief Statement of the LCMS, but there too it is a claim without a foundation. Yet this claim is the basis for all UOJ opinions.] This is the good news Scripture reveals. This is the good news we proclaim to contrite sinners: “God has reconciled you to himself. Your sins are already forgiven. Calvary and the empty tomb are the proof of it.”

B. It is suggested, if not argued, that such an interpretation of Scripture and the teaching of objective justification we defend is something relatively new in Lutheranism. [GJ - Everything in this so-called Biblical study is found in the Pietistic, non-Lutheran lectures of George Christian Knapp, 1866, a very popular dogmatics book in English and German. Date? 1866. UOJ is from the mid-19th century and erupted from Pietism.] It is true that the terms objective and subjective justification are relatively recent. They are not found in the Confessions. It is also true that most of the time when the Scriptures speak of justification they do so in connection with believing. [GJ - The Scriptures and the Book of Concord agree in treating justification the same way - justification by faith.] They speak of subjective justification. Yet the fact remains that terms objective justification and subjective justification do convey thoughts which the Scriptures teach, as all orthodox theologians have confessed. [GJ - This is gourmet baloney. No one taught OJ or UOJ before the 19th century. Robert Preus, who actually read the orthodox theologians, refuted the pastor's claim years ago, in Justification and Rome.]

C. When objective justification is denied, faith becomes a condition of salvation instead of the means through which we receive salvation. When speaking of salvation, we don’t want to turn a person’s attention inward to his faith, but outward to the grace of God. Preaching about faith will not produce faith, but proclaiming God’s love and mercy and forgiveness will produce believing hearts.
[GJ - This is a Straw Man fallacy. UOJ is Enthusiasm and should be denied. Justification by faith is a message about the Gospel. Preaching against faith will exterminate faith, which can be proven in the apostasy of Church and Change, the last belch of the UOJ generation. Emphasizing the efficacy of the Word, which is taught in the Scriptures and the confessions, increases trust in God's Word.]

D. To justify in the Bible always has the meaning “to declare righteous.” Never do the terms denote a qualitative change in man, a physical or medicinal thing. The change which is meant is not a change in one’s person, but a change in one’s status before God. In the matter of salvation it is God’s pronouncing a sinner righteous—an act which takes place apart from man. God declares sinners righteous not because of anything he foresaw in man, but for the sake of Christ, the sinner’s substitute. [GJ - He appears to be arguing against "in view of faith" but that is not the issue. He concedes the meaning of justify, so where are the words of Universal Forgiveness?]

E. A quick look at the terms ought to be sufficient to remind ourselves of the Lutheran doctrine of objective or universal justification–that God at the resurrection of Christ declared sinners justified, universally, excluding none, and objectively, whether they believe it or not.
[GJ - Where exactly is this declaration of universal forgiveness recorded?]

F. Romans 5:18, 19: “Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.” [GJ - He has refuted himself. Many are justified. No verse says or implied that everyone is forgiven, without faith, without the Word, without the Means of Grace. To say that people have grace--forgiveness--without the work of the Spirit is pure Enthusiasm. Enthusiasm-->Pietism-->UOJ-->Church and Change. By the way, Enthusiasm is roundly condemned in the Book of Concord.]

Historically, this reference in Romans is ranked as the principal sedes doctrinae for objective justification. Verse 18 informs us that because of Adam’s sin a verdict of condemnation was pronounced on all men; because of the one act of righteousness by Christ a verdict of acquittal was pronounced on all men. There can be no question that verse 18 teaches universal and therefore objective justification.
[GJ - Yes, historically, in the sects of a few Midwest Lutherans, from C. F. W. Walther and his disciples.]

G. 2 Corinthians 5:19: “God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the word of reconciliation.”
The passage does not contain the word righteousness, but it ranks as strong support for the doctrine of objective justification because of the manner in which it speaks of the synonymous term reconciliation. In Christ God has reconciled the world to himself. A change has taken place. The change was not in man. Man remained unchanged, by nature sinful, hostile to God.

Orthodox theologians for the most part have spoken of the change as a change in man’s status before God. Previously God viewed the world apart from Christ—and it stood condemned. Now God views the world in the light of Christ’s work of redemption and has declared the world righteous, forgiven.
[GJ - Oh yes, all the people in Hell have been given the status of guilt-free saints. And the Hottentots are justified without faith too. All this can be found in the fanatical UOJ books, 19th century and later. Their favorite UOJ theologian, E. Preuss, turned Roman Catholic.]

H. There are many other passages of Scripture that support the doctrine of objective justification:
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world” (Jn 1:29).

“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 Jn 2:2).
[GJ - The Atonement is universal. The message of reconciliation is the Gospel Promise which produces faith. Man's faith receives the Promise, which is forgiveness of sin.]

Any reference that announces that Christ has paid for sin, offered himself as a sacrifice, paid the ransom, shed his blood, finally teaches objective justification. Men’s sins are paid for whether they believe it or not.
[GJ - It is true that Christ has paid for the sins of the world. This payment or redemption is true, but the effect does not take place apart from the Means of Grace.]

I. To illustrate the history of universal and therefore objective justification in Lutheran doctrine we go back to Luther. Anyone who has read Luther’s “Treatise Concerning the Keys” of 1530 can hardly deny that Luther believed in objective justification. The following paragraph sums up Luther’s thoughts quite well:
Even he who does not believe that he is free and his sins forgiven shall also learn, in due time, how assuredly his sins were forgiven, even though he did not believe it. St. Paul says in Ro 3(3): “Their faithlessness nullifies the faithfulness of God.” We are not talking here either about people’s belief or disbelief regarding the efficacy of the keys. We realize that few believe. We are speaking of what the keys accomplish and give. He who does not accept what the keys give receives, of course, nothing. But this is not the keys’ fault. Many do not believe the gospel, but this does not mean that the gospel is not true or effective. A king gives you a castle. If you do not accept it, then it is not the king’s fault, nor is he guilty of a lie. But you have deceived yourself and the fault is yours. The king certainly gave it. LW 40 363-369
[GJ - This shows the Atonement is universal. Luther is very clear about the Means of Grace and his condemnation of Enthusiasm.]

J. The Confessions also speak frequently of universal and therefore objective justification:
1) But the Gospel is properly such a doctrine as teaches what man who has not observed the Law, and therefore is condemned by it, it to believe, namely, that Christ has expiated and made satisfaction for all sins, and has obtained and acquired for him, without any merit of his, forgiveness of sins, righteousness that avails before God, and eternal life. Formula of Concord V, 4; Trig., p 801.
[GJ - This is another attempt to turn the Atonement into universal forgiveness without faith. Sorry. No go.]

2) (God in His purpose and counsel ordained:) That the human race is truly redeemed and reconciled with God through Christ, who, by His faultless obedience, suffering, and death, has merited for us the righteousness which avails before God, and eternal life. Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration XI, 15, Trig., p 1069

K. While the election controversy was in its second stage in the first years of the 20th Century, a somewhat related controversy over objective justification erupted. This development prompted August Pieper to write for the third volume of the Quartalschrift his unforgettable article. The conclusion reads:

One cannot oppose any doctrine of God’s Word with impunity; this increases sin and guilt, damages consciences and blinds the heart. One error begets another, as in the election controversy the insistence on intuitu fidei soon brought with itself the synergistic doctrine of conversion. But whoever molests the doctrine of justification stabs the gospel in the heart and is on the way of losing entirely Christian doctrine and personal faith and of falling into the arms of heathenism, even if he ever so much emphasizes justification by faith.
[GJ - Augie got one thing right - failing seminary, failing college, failing synod: apostasy reigns at The Love Shack. UOJ has almost destroyed the sect, but the Gospel cannot be stabbed in the heart. The Gospel needs no protection from man.]

***

GJ - As I wrote to one WELS District President, "Why is WELS rife with Enthusiasm, Church and Change, Rock-N-Roll?" The answer is - UOJ.

Here is one source of UOJ, from 1866, a famous book printed in English and German, just in time to influence the Synodical Conference:

Leonard Woods (1807-78) was the fourth president of Bowdoin College.

Life and career

Born in Newbury, Massachusetts, Woods attended Phillips Andover Academy before graduating from Union College in 1827. After having graduated from Andover Theological Seminary, he made a translation of George Christian Knapp's Christian Theology, which became long used as a textbook in American theological seminaries.

Knapp is the man who agrees with WELS. Not Luther. Not Calov. Not J. Gerhard. Certainly not the Book of Concord. Not Chemnitz. Not Melanchthon.

Hoenecke came from Halle, the center of German Pietism.

Let's hear from Melanchthon and Luther, quoted in the Book of Concord:

J-528
"Faith is that my whole heart takes to itself this treasure. It is not my doing, not my presenting or giving, not my work or preparation, but that a heart comforts itself, and is perfectly confident with respect to this, namely, that God makes a present and gift to us, and not we to Him, that He sheds upon us every treasure of grace in Christ." Apology of the Augsburg Confession, IV. #48. Of Justification. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 135. Heiser, p. 36.

J-545
"These treasures are offered us by the Holy Ghost in the promise of the holy Gospel; and faith alone is the only means by which we lay hold upon, accept, and apply, and appropriate them to ourselves. This faith is a gift of God, by which we truly learn to know Christ, our Redeemer, in the Word of the Gospel, and trust in Him, that for the sake of His obedience alone we have the forgiveness of sins by grace, are regarded as godly and righteous by God the Father, and are eternally saved." Formula of Concord, Thorough Declaration, III. #10. Of the Righteousness of Faith before God. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 919. Tappert, p. 541. Heiser, p. 250.

The Lutherans Song Link




You must click on this link to get the hilarious Lutheran song.

Big mistake in the video - Garrison Keillor was never a Lutheran. He belonged to the Pietistic sect, the Plymouth Brethren. He feigned being a Lutheran because many in his Minneapolis audience were. Besides, it is difficult to tell a nominal Lutheran from a Pietist.

Luther: A Mighty Fortress, Organ




"A Mighty Fortress is Our God"
by Dr. Martin Luther, 1483-1546
Composite Translation from the Pennsylvania Lutheran CHURCH BOOK of 1868

1. A mighty Fortress is our God,
A trusty Shield and Weapon;
He helps us free from every need
That hath us now o'ertaken.
The old evil Foe
Now means deadly woe;
Deep guile and great might
Are his dread arms in fight;
On Earth is not his equal.

2. With might of ours can naught be done,
Soon were our loss effected;
But for us fights the Valiant One,
Whom God Himself elected.
Ask ye, Who is this?
Jesus Christ it is.
Of Sabaoth Lord,
And there's none other God;
He holds the field forever.

3. Though devils all the world should fill,
All eager to devour us.
We tremble not, we fear no ill,
They shall not overpower us.
This world's prince may still
Scowl fierce as he will,
He can harm us none,
He's judged; the deed is done;
One little word can fell him.

4. The Word they still shall let remain
Nor any thanks have for it;
He's by our side upon the plain
With His good gifts and Spirit.
And take they our life,
Goods, fame, child and wife,
Let these all be gone,
They yet have nothing won;
The Kingdom our remaineth.

Hymn #262
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: Psalm 46
Author: Martin Luther, 1529
Translated by: composite
Titled: "Ein' feste Burg ist unser Gott"
Composer: Martin Luther, 1529
Tune: "Ein' feste Burg"
1st Published in: Klug's Gesangbuch
Town: Wittenberg, 1529

Neander: Praise to the Lord, The Almighty




Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750)
LOBE DEN HERREN BWV 137 (1725)
Thomanerchor Leipzig
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig
GÜNTHER RAMIN (1898-1956)
rec. 1953

Lobe den Herren, was in mir ist, lobe den Namen!
Alles, was Odem hat, lobe mit Abrahams Samen!
Er ist dein Licht,
Seele, vergiss es ja nicht;
Lobende, schließe mit Amen!

---

"Praise to the Lord, the Almighty"

by Joachim Neander, 1650-1680
Translated by Catherine Winkworth, 1829-1878

1. Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of creation!
O my soul, praise Him, for He is Thy Health and Salvation!
Join the full throng:
Wake, harp and psalter and song;
Sound forth in glad adoration!

2. Praise to the Lord, who o'er all things so wondrously reigneth,
Who, as on wings of an eagle, uplifteth, sustaineth.
Hast thou not seen
How thy desires all have been
Granted in what He ordaineth?

3. Praise to the Lord, who hath fearfully, wondrously, made thee;
Health hath vouchsafed and, when heedlessly falling, hath stayed thee.
What need or grief
Ever hath failed of relief?--
Wings of His mercy did shade thee.

4. Praise to the Lord, who doth prosper thy work and defend thee,
Who from the heavens the streams of His mercy doth send thee.
Ponder anew
What the Almighty can do,
Who with His love doth befriend thee.

5. Praise to the Lord! Oh, let all that is in me adore Him!
All that hath life and breath, come now with praises before Him!
Let the Amen
Sound from His people again;
Gladly for aye we adore Him.

The Lutheran Hymnal
Hymn #39
Text: Neh. 9:6
Author: Joachim Neander, 1679
Translated by: Catherine Winkworth, 1863, alt.
Titled: "Lobe den Herren, den maechtigen"
Tune: "Lobe den Herren, den"
1st Published in: _Erneuertes Gesangbuch_
Town: Stralsund, 1665