Treasure Quotations

"For the Word of God is the sanctuary above all sanctuaries, yea, the only one which we Christians know and have. For though we had the bones of all the saints or all holy and consecrated garments upon a heap, still that would help us nothing; for all that is a dead thing which can sanctify nobody. But God's Word is the treasure which sanctifies everything, and by which even all the saints themselves were sanctified. At whatever hour, then, God's Word is taught, preached, heard, read or meditated upon, there the person, day, and work are sanctified thereby, not because of the external work, but because of the Word, which makes saints of us all. Therefore I constantly say that all our life and work must be ordered according to God's Word, if it is to be God-pleasing or holy. Where this is done, this commandment is in force and being fulfilled."
The Large Catechism, The Third Commandment, #91-2. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 607. Tappert, p. 377. Heiser, p. 175. Exodus 20:8-11.


Johann Franck (1618-1677), enjoyed a career in law but devoted himself to writing hymns, giving us several well known titles, including: Soul, adorn thyself with gladness #305; and Jesus, Priceless Treasure, #347.

"Thus we arrive at the apostle's meaning in the assertion that a minister of Christ is a steward in the mysteries of God. He should regard himself and insist that others regard him as one who administers to the household of God nothing but Christ and the things of Christ. In other words, he should preach the pure Gospel, the true faith, that Christ alone is our life, our way, our wisdom, power, glory, salvation; and that all we can accomplish of ourselves is but death, error, foolishness, weakness, shame and condemnation. Whosoever preaches otherwise should be regarded by none as a servant of Christ or a steward of the divine treasurer; he should be avoided as a messenger of the devil." Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholaus Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, VI, p. 73. Third Sunday in Advent, 1 Corinthians 4:1-5,

"Thus also the devil is angry because God wants to trample him under foot by means of flesh and blood. If a mighty spirit were opposed to him, he would not be so sorely vexed; but it greatly angers him that a poor worm of the dust, a fragile earthen vessel defies him, a weak vessel against a mighty prince. God has placed his treasure, says St. Paul, in a poor, weak vessel; for man is weak, easily aroused to anger, avaricious, arrogant, and weighed down with other imperfections, through which Satan easily shatters the earthen vessel; for if God would permit him, he would soon have utterly destroyed the whole vessel."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholaus Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, V, p. 268. Twenty-first Sunday after Trinity, John 4:46-54; 1 Peter 5:8; Ephesians 6:12

"Therefore you should not imagine it is enough if you have commenced to believe; but you must diligently watch that your faith continue firm, or it will vanish; you are to see how you may retain this treasure you have embraced; for Satan concentrates all his skill and strength on how to tear it out of your heart."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholaus Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, V, p. 255. Twenty-first Sunday after Trinity, John 4:46-54

"Let a prince give a person a castle or several thousand dollars, what a jumping and rejoicing it creates! On the other hand, let a person be baptized or receive the communion which is a heavenly, eternal treasure, there is not one-tenth as much rejoicing. Thus we are by nature; there is none who so heartily rejoices over God's gifts and grace as over money and earthly possessions; what does that mean but that we do not love God as we ought?"
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholaus Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, V, p. 190 Eighteenth Sunday after Trinity, Matthew 22:34-46

"Let a prince give a person a castle or several thousand dollars, what a jumping and rejoicing it creates! On the other hand, let a person be baptized or receive the communion which is a heavenly, eternal treasure, there is not one-tenth as much rejoicing. Thus we are by nature; there is none who so heartily rejoices over God's gifts and grace as over money and earthly possessions; what does that mean but that we do not love God as we ought?"
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholaus Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, V, p. 190 Eighteenth Sunday after Trinity, Matthew 22:34-46

"If I only kept in mind that He gave me eyes, truly a very great treasure, it would be no wonder if shame caused my death, because of my ingratitude in that I never yet thanked Him for the blessing of sight. But we do not see His noble treasures and gifts; they are too common. But when a blind babe happens to be born, then we see what a painful thing the lack of sight is, and what a precious thing even one eye is, and what a divine blessing a healthy, bright countenance is; it serves us during our whole life, and without it one would rather be dead; and yet no one thanks God for it."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholaus Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, V, p. 129. Sixteenth Sunday after Trinity Luke 7:11-17

"The Master uses here the Hebrew, which we do not. 'Mammon' means goods or riches, and such goods as one does not need, but holds as a treasure, and it is gold and possessions that one deposits as stock and storage provisions."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed. John Nicholas Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, V, p. 107. Trinity 15 Matthew 6:24-34

"It is a faithful saying that Christ has accomplished everything, has removed sin and overcome every enemy, so that through Him we are lords over all things. But the treasure lies yet in one pile; it is not yet distributed nor invested. Consequently, if we are to possess it, the Holy Spirit must come and teach our hearts to believe and say: I, too, am one of those who are to have this treasure. When we feel that God has thus helped us and given the treasure to us, everything goes well, and it cannot be otherwise than that man's heart rejoices in God and lifts itself up, saying: Dear Father, if it is Thy will to show toward me such great love and faithfulness, which I cannot fully fathom, then will I also love Thee with all my heart and be joyful, and cheerfully do what pleases Thee. Thus, the heart does not now look at God with evil eyes, does not imagine He will cast us into hell, as it did before the HS came...."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholas Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, III, p. 279. Pentecost Sunday John 14:23-31.

"Here are no learned, no rich, no mighty ones, for such people do not as a rule accept the Gospel. The Gospel is a heavenly treasure, which will not tolerate any other treasure, and will not agree with any earthly guest in the heart. Therefore whoever loves the one must let go the other, as Christ says, Matthew 6:24: 'You cannot serve God and mammon.'" Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholas Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, I, p. 154. Christmas Day Luke 2:1-14; Matthew 6:24. (10)

"What I have done and taught, teach thou, My ways forsake thou never; So shall My kingdom flourish now And God be praised forever. Take heed lest men with base alloy The heavenly treasure should destroy; This counsel I bequeath thee."
The Lutheran Hymnal, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1941, Hymn #387. Romans 3:28. (10)

"What I have done and taught, teach thou, My ways forsake thou never; So shall My kingdom flourish now And God be praised forever. Take heed lest men with base alloy The heavenly treasure should destroy; This counsel I bequeath thee." The Lutheran Hymnal, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1941, Hymn #387. Romans 3:28. "Therefore, do not speak to me of love or friendship when anything is to be detracted from the Word or the faith; for we are told that not love but the Word brings eternal life, God's grace, and all heavenly treasures."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1411f. Ephesians 6:10-17.

"Thus we see what a very splendid thing Baptism is. It snatches us from the jaws of the devil, makes us God's own, restrains and removes sin, and then daily strengthens the new man within us. It is and remains ever efficacious until we pass from this state of misery to eternal glory. For this reason everyone should consider his Baptism as his daily dress, to be worn constantly. Every day he should be found in the faith and its fruits, suppressing the old man, and growing up in the new; for if we want to be Christians, we must practice the work whereby we are Christians. But if anyone falls from baptismal grace, let him return to it. For as Christ, the Mercy Seat, does not withdraw from us or forbid us to come to Him again even though we sin, so all His treasures and gifts also remain with us."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, I, p. 61. Article on baptism, 1529

"Therefore, do not speak to me of love or friendship when anything is to be detracted from the Word or the faith; for we are told that not love but the Word brings eternal life, God's grace, and all heavenly treasures."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1411f. Ephesians 6:10-17.

"Faith is that my whole heart takes to itself this treasure. It is not my doing, not my presenting or giving, not my work or preparation, but that a heart comforts itself, and is perfectly confident with respect to this, namely, that God makes a present and gift to us, and not we to Him, that He sheds upon us every treasure of grace in Christ."
Apology of the Augsburg Confession, IV. #48. Justification. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 135. Not in Tappert. Heiser, p. 36.

"...the Ukraine project of Thoughts of Faith (Pastor Kovaciny)" Use of mission funds. Charlotte Proctor, treasurer Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, Cornerstone, Emmanuel Lutheran Church Columbus, Ohio November, 1995 Recording secretary, Christine E. Scheiderer; treasurer, Charlotte Proctor. Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, Cornerstone, Emmanuel Lutheran Church Columbus, Ohio November, 1995

"Pastor Kovaciny, in an effort to respond to our request, sent a copy of the third quarter treasurer's report of the Ukrainian congregation, signed by the treasurer and written in his own hand. We thought you might enjoy seeing it! You should be aware that our budget offering goes to pay for Pastor Kovaciny's salary and expenses through 'Thoughts of Faith,' the radio ministry which has been bringing the Gospel to the Ukraine for many years...." Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, Cornerstone, Emmanuel Lutheran Church Columbus, Ohio January, 1995

"These treasures are offered us by the Holy Ghost in the promise of the holy Gospel; and faith alone is the only means by which we lay hold upon, accept, and apply, and appropriate them to ourselves. This faith is a gift of God, by which we truly learn to know Christ, our Redeemer, in the Word of the Gospel, and trust in Him, that for the sake of His obedience alone we have the forgiveness of sins by grace, are regarded as godly and righteous by God the Father, and are eternally saved."
Formula of Concord, SD, III 10, Righteous of Faith before God, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 919. Tappert, p. 541. Heiser, p. 250.

(8) "What is the world to me! My Jesus is my treasure, My Life, my Health, my Wealth, my Friend, my Love, my Pleasure, My Joy, my Crown, my All, Bliss eternally. Once more, then, I declare: What is the world to me!"
Georg M. Pfefferkorn, 1667, "What Is the World to Me," The Lutheran Hymnal, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1941, Hymn #430. 1 John 2:15-17. "

(3) Hollazius (ib.): 'The Word of God, as such, cannot be conceived of without the divine virtue, or the Holy Spirit, who is inseparable from His Word. For if the Holy Spirit could be separated from the Word of God, it would not be the Word of God or of the Spirit, but a word of man. Nor is there any other Word of God, which is in God, or with which the men of God have been inspired, than that which is given in the Scriptures or is preached or is treasured up in the human mind. But, as it cannot be denied that that is the divine will, counsel, mind, and the wisdom of God, so it cannot be destitute of the divine virtue or efficacy.'"
Heinrich Schmid, Doctrinal Theology of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, trans., Charles A. Hay and Henry E. Jacobs, Philadelphia: United Lutheran Publication House, 1899, p. 505.

"Thanks to the dogma of Purgatory, how many souls follow the recommendation of Our Saviour, and lay up to themselves treasures in Heaven, thus becoming rich before God (Matthew 6:20; Luke 12:21)?"
Martin Jugie, Purgatory and the Means to Avoid It, New York: Spiritual Book Associates, 1950, p. 29. 381 Fourth Ave, NY 16, NY Matthew 6:20; Luke 12:21.

"The Gospel shows the Father's grace, Who sent His Son to save our race, Proclaims how Jesus lived and died That man might thus be justified. (2) It sets the Lamb before our eyes, Who made the atoning sacrifice, And calls the souls with guilt opprest To come and find eternal rest. (3) It brings the Savior's righteousness Our souls to robe in royal dress; From all our guilt it brings release And gives the troubled conscience peace. (4) It is the power of God to save From sin and Satan and the grace; It works the faith, which firmly clings To all the treasures which it brings. (5) It bears to all the tidings glad And bids their hearts no more be sad; The heavy laden souls it cheers And banishes their guilty fears."
Matthias Loy, 1863, "The Gospel Shows the Father's Grace" The Lutheran Hymnal, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1941, Hymn #297. John 3:16.

"Indulgences are, in the Church, a true spiritual treasure laid open to all the faithful; all are permitted to draw therefrom, to pay their own debts and those of others."
Rev. F. X. Schouppe, S.J., Purgatory, Illustrated by the Lives and Legends of the Saints, Rockford: TAN Books and Publishers, 1973 (1893), p. 195.

Andy Stanley and Appleton Alliance Refuted
"Therefore it is pure wickedness and blasphemy of the devil that now our new spirits, to mock at Baptism, omit from it God's Word and institution, and look upon it in no other way than as water which is taken from the well, and then blather and say: How is a handful of water to help the soul? Aye, my friend, who does not know that water is water if tearing things asunder is what we are after? But how dare you thus interfere with God's order, and tear away the most precious treasure with which God has connected and enclosed it, and which He will not have separated? For the kernel in the water is God's Word or command and the name of God, which is a treasure greater and nobler than heaven and earth."
The Large Catechism, Part Fourth, Of Baptism. #15-16. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 735. Tappert, p. 438. Heiser, p. 205f.

"Here you see again how highly and precious we should esteem Baptism, because in it we obtain such an unspeakable treasure, which also indicates sufficiently that it cannot be ordinary mere water. For mere water could not do such a thing, but the Word does it, and (as said above) the fact that the name of God is comprehended therein. But where the name of God is, there must be also life and salvation, that it may indeed be called a divine, blessed, fruitful, and gracious water; for by the Word such power is imparted to Baptism that it is a laver of regeneration, as St. Paul also calls it, Titus 3:5."
The Large Catechism, Part Fourth, Of Baptism. #26-27. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 739. Tappert, p. 439f. Heiser, p. 206.

"Thus faith clings to the water, and believes that it is Baptism, in which there is pure salvation and life; not through the water (as we have sufficiently stated), but through the fact that it is embodied in the Word and institution of God, and the name of God inheres in it. Now, if I believe this, what else is it than believing in God and in Him who has given and planted His Word into this ordinance, and proposes to us this external thing wherein we may apprehend such a treasure?"
The Large Catechism, Part Fourth, Of Baptism. #29. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 739. Tappert, p. 440. Heiser, p. 206.

"Without faith it profits nothing, notwithstanding it is in itself a divine superabundant treasure. Therefore this single word (He that believeth) effects this much that it excludes and repels all works which we can do, in the opinion that we obtain and merit salvation by them. For it is determined that whatever is not faith avails nothing nor receives anything."
The Large Catechism, Part Fourth, Of Baptism. #34. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 741. Tappert, p. 440. Heiser, p. 207.

"Thus you see plainly that there is here no work done by us, but a treasure which He gives us, and which faith apprehends; just as the Lord Jesus Christ upon the cross is not a work, but a treasure comprehended in the Word, and offered to us and received by faith. Therefore they do us violence by exclaiming against us as though we preach against faith; while we alone insist upon it as being of such necessity that without it nothing can be received nor enjoyed."
The Large Catechism, Part Fourth, Of Baptism. #37. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 741. Tappert, p. 441. Heiser, p. 207.

"For this reason let every one esteem his Baptism as a daily dress in which he is to walk constantly, that he may ever be found in the faith and its fruits, that he suppress the old man and grow up in the new. For if we would be Christians, we must practice the work whereby we are Christians. But if any one fall away from it, let him again come into it. For just as Christ, the Mercy-seat, does not recede from us or forbid us to come to Him again, even though we sin, so all His treasure and gifts also remain. If, therefore, we have once in Baptism obtained forgiveness of sin, it will remain every day, as long as we live, that is, as long as we carry the old man about our neck."
The Large Catechism, Part Fourth, Of Baptism. #84-86. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 753. Tappert, p. 446. Heiser, p. 209f.

"For herein you have both truths, that it is the body and blood of Christ, and that it is yours as a treasure and gift. Now the body of Christ can never be an unfruitful, vain thing, that effects or profits nothing. Yet, however great is the treasure in itself, it must be comprehended in the Word and administered to us, else we should never be able to know or seek it."
The Large Catechism, Sacrament of the Altar. #29-30. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 759. Tappert, p. 449f. Heiser, p. 211.

"This faith He Himself demands in the Word when He says: Given and shed for you. As if He said: For this reason I give it, and bid you eat and drink, that you may claim it as yours and enjoy it. Whoever now accepts these words,and believes that what they declare is true, has it. But whoever does not believe it has nothing, as he allows it to be offered to him in vain, and refuses to enjoy such a saving good. The treasure, indeed, is opened and placed at every one's door, yea, upon his table, but it is necessary that you also claim it, and confidently view it as the words suggest to you."
The Large Catechism, Sacrament of the Altar. #34-35. Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 761. Tappert, p. 450. Heiser, p. 212.

UOJ Refuted
"For neither you nor I could ever know anything of Christ, or believe on Him, and obtain Him for our Lord, unless it were offered to us and granted to our hearts by the Holy Ghost through the preaching of the Gospel. The work is done and accomplished; for Christ has acquired and gained the treasure for us by His suffering, death, resurrection, etc. But if the work remained concealed so that no one knew of it, then it would be in vain and lost. That this treasure, therefore, might not lie buried, but be appropriated and enjoyed, God has caused the Word to go forth and be proclaimed, in which He gives the Holy Ghost to bring this treasure home and appropriate it to us. Therefore sanctifying is nothing else than bringing us to Christ to receive this good, to which we could not attain ourselves."
The Large Catechism, The Creed, Article III, #38, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 689. Tappert, p. 415. Heiser, p. 194.

"For where He does not cause it to be preached and made alive in the heart, so that it is understood, it is lost, as was the case under the Papacy, where faith was entirely put under the bench, and no one recognized Christ as his Lord or the Holy Ghost as his Sanctifier, that is, no one believed that Christ is our Lord in the sense that He has acquired this treasure for us, without our works and merit, and made us acceptable to the Father. What, then, was lacking? This, that the Holy Ghost was not there to reveal it and cause it to be preached; but men and evil spirits were there, who taught us to obtain grace and be saved by our works."
The Large Catechism, The Creed, Article III, #43-44, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 689. Tappert, p. 416. Heiser, p. 194f.

"True, the enthusiasts confess that Christ died on the cross and saved us; but they repudiate that by which we obtain Him; that is, the means, the way, the bridge, the approach to Him they destroy...They lock up the treasure which they should place before us and lead me a fool's chase; they refuse to admit me to it; they refuse to transmit it; they deny me its possession and use." (III, 1692)
The. Engelder, W. Arndt, Th. Graebner, F. E. Mayer, Popular Symbolics, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1934, p. 5.

"These means are the true treasure of the church through which salvation in Christ is offered. They are the objective proclamation of faith which alone makes man's subjective faith possible (Augsburg Confession, Article V). The Formula of Concord (Solid Declaration, Article XI, 76) states expressly that God alone draws man to Christ and that he does this only through the means of grace." Walter G. Tillmanns, "Means of Grace: Use of," The Encyclopedia of the Lutheran Church, 3 vols., Julius Bodensieck, Minneapolis: Augsburg Publishing House, 1965, II, p. 1505.

The CORE Twitters

Executive Assistant, The CORE, A-town.
Phone 920-364-0200
920-540-5298
info@gotocore.com
Core Twitter

Twitter


negative place today, must sign off for now
less than a minute ago from TweetDeck

attacking my inbox first thing on a very rainy wednesday morning in a-town....this website management thing is seriously time consuming!
about 1 hour ago from TweetDeck

How much is one soul worth? How do you put a price tag on it?
about 12 hours ago from twitterrific

Wow! God has put some amazing visionaries on our team backing us in a-town. So grateful!!
about 12 hours ago from twitterrific

good mtg with exec comm tnite -I get to work with some awesome ppl. God is good!
about 13 hours ago from twitterrific

if you haven't checked out www.driveinternational.org you should - awesome resource
about 16 hours ago from TweetDeck

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Ski Twitter

At the gym. Had great morning. Going be an even better afternoon. Tweets have great Lent. Hope to see you at St.Peter's. 2 pm & 6:30 pm
19 minutes ago from twitterrific

LOLCats Say - Doctrinal Discipline, Ur Doin It Wrong

LOLCat Demonstrating Epic Fail


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "From Another Blog":

Hmmmm.. 4 congregations nearby with 1,000+ members; 40 congregations total within 20 miles. Does the CORE think that saturation is an EPIC FAIL for WELS? Let's also look at how many "electric slide, jump-n-shout, rock 'n roll" churches are also within 10 miles of CORE. Two huge churches right on 41 - Pathways, Appleton Alliance, dozens of Baptists, Assembly of God, plus lesser enthsiasts (sic)...

Is the CORE concerned that churches aren't reaching people or the Word isn't working and is returning empty and failing to accomplish what God desires?


Ski's Twitter: At Appleton Alliance for worssip (sic) thos (sic) morning. This is my 3rd time. It looks like I'll finally here (sic) Dennis Espiscopo preach. 6:00 AM Nov 30th, 2008 from twitterrific [his spellings]

Here's a quote from Appleton Alliance website: "At Appleton Alliance Church we practice “believer’s baptism”. Baptism not necessary for salvation, but rather is an outward sign of commitment and a changed life. Baptism takes place after a person believes in Jesus Christ and surrenders to Him as lord."

WHERE'S THE CHURCH DISCIPLINE??!?? WHY ARE WE PUNTING CASH TO SYNOD WHEN THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB?!?!?


D o' Worms

DP = Dog-matic President

Drive International - Ski Fans Take Note

A rare photo op of Ski with a tie.

From Ski's pricey executive assistant, on Twitter:

if you haven't checked out http://www.driveinternational.org/ you should - awesome resource
about 6 hours ago from TweetDeck

So what is Drive International? (That is a pun on Drive-In. Enjoy the graphics.)

Creating a church for people who don't like church!

That is the basic theme of Emerging Church or Becoming Missional.

If you want to do research on this, register and attend their web-based brain-washing sessions. Andy Stanley is in charge. Now where have I heard that name before?

I am too busy to look into this event, which appears to be free. I think concerned laity and pastors should get themselves up to date on what WELS Church and Change people are slobbering over.

I remember now - Ski and Babtist Andy Stanley, whom he heard at Atlanta and again at another conference, Catalyst.

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Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "From Another Blog":

If you are going to criticize at lease get your facts straight. I have never heard The CORE say that their motto is "In order to reach people..." I have reviewed the website and haven't found that anywhere. Find the facts for yourselves and stop relying on others to do your dirty work because clearly they are misleading you with false information.

***

GJ - My, my, someone should read the post before commenting. I did not say "In order to reach people" was Ski's motto, but that it is the theme of Emerging Church/Becoming Missional. If Ski and Company need to study Emerging Church all the time, that study will bear fruit - more precious thistle seeds to sow to the wind. That has been and continues to be the goal of Church and Chicanery and its robotic followers. My "false information" comes from Ski's constant blabbing on his blog, his website, and his twitter.

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Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "Drive International - Ski Fans Take Note":

"Pricey executive assistant" - I didn't know you were so privileged as to have access to the financial records of the core to know how much, if at all, the assistant gets paid. Please Greg, if you want to tear people down so be it but at least be sure you have the facts before you do so. And that is a fact I highly doubt you have.

***

GJ - Is Mouse making a claim that the executive assistant is working for free? I would love to have an Excel chart showing the budget figures and where the big bucks are coming from. In a time of financial crisis for the whole country and WELS, Ski is given his own sandbox to play in, and he cannot stop crowing about it. These things have their way of turning into a tarbaby. A lot of other congregations in A-town are already thriving by doing their anti-confessional Emerging Church for the People Who Hate Church thing. Why was Ski at Alliance Church three times? To learn from them. Why did he mark and avoid Deutschlander in favor of Stanley? To learn from the Babtists.

I have served several congregations on mission status. I am sure mission pastors will agree that their budget did not allow for popcorn, gourmet coffee, an energy-hog Imax projector, 20 sub-woofers!, and an executive assistant.

The classic WELS Church and Chicanery spin is to make the message bearer the issue, not their most recent act of apostasy. I welcome the verbal abuse because the cowardly, sniveling comments show how shallow the group is, how limited the members are, how dark its future is.

Welcome Kirk

I see a new name on on followers list - Kirk. That is all I know.

Welcome, Kirk.

From Another Blog

Lent and The CORE Location

February 9, 2009 by Rick

“This year’s Lenten services will begin on February 25th, Ash Wednesday,” and our congregation, St. Peter, will not be a part of the usual pastor rotation. Instead, Pastor Skorzewski (aka “Pastor Ski”) and Pastor Glende (aka “Pastor Tim”) will each lead three of the six services. According to our December/January/February 2008-2009 newsletter, the reason our “Lenten services will not include a pulpit exchange of pastors” is due “to pastor vacancies in the area.”

James Skorzewski is pastor of The CORE, our new daughter congregation. The CORE will begin holding services the Sunday after Easter at the defunct Big Picture movie theater. The Big Picture is similar to an IMAX theater, except the Big Picture’s movie screen is larger than a standard IMAX. The Big Picture boasts an entertainment screen that is 80 feet wide and 60 feet tall.

Also, this puts The CORE only one block away from another WELS church: St. Paul Evangelical Lutheran Church and School. St. Paul is a congregation of over 1100 members and is notable for its outreach efforts among Hmong immigrants. There are over 40 other WELS congregations within a 20 mile radius from The CORE’s new location. Within about a mile of The CORE, there are four other WELS congregations each averaging over 1000 members. Lawrence University is also near by.

The CORE’s plan is to reach out to the people in the Appleton area who would not consider becoming Lutheran or WELS. In other words, The CORE’s goal is to reach all the people those large WELS congregations are not reaching. The CORE’s motto is, “In order to reach people no one else is reaching, we must do things no one else is doing.” One of the things The CORE has been planning to do is avoid public identification as a “WELS” and/or as a “Lutheran” congregation.

St. Peter is not supporting The CORE financially. Anonymous WELS members gave $100,000 as well as a parsonage to get The CORE started.

In other news, St. Peter also called Chris Christenson to be our Assistant Pastor to serve under new Senior Pastor Tim Glende. Pastor Glende’s mentor, Rev. Ron Ash retired in 2008 as pastor, but still serves as advisor for The CORE. Pastor Skorzewski and Pastor Ash both serve on the Board of Directors of a controversial organization called Church and Change.

[This personal web log is about amateur photography, worship, history, and anything else of interest from a WELS confessional Lutheran layman’s Christian perspective. If anyone would like to participate, please leave a comment, or contact me directly at x22sun-wordpress2 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.

“Light from Light” is from the Nicene Creed and refers to Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the three person oneness of God (Trinity). God is three persons. God is one. There is only one God.

“Light from Light” also refers to photography.]

Lunch with the Doctrinal Pussycat: The Anything Goes District

Rev. Douglas J. Engelbrecht
Northern Wisconsin District President
nwdpwels@sab.wels.net
920-722-6712

I heard months ago that the Northern District was going to be cleaned up in various specific ways. This is DP Engelbrecht, Lord of Discipline in the district.

Ski and Babtist Andy Stanley, whom he heard at Atlanta and again at another conference, Catalyst.

Twitter

Great Tuesday. Lunch with my DP, executive meeting, as well as meeting people interested in The CORE. Great things are happening.

Lunch was great. Man it is great to have a DP that wants to reach the Lost and support what we are doing. He's one of the best.
about 1 hour ago from web

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Times have changed,
And we've often rewound the clock,
Since the Puritans got a shock,
When they landed on Plymouth Rock.
If today,
Any shock they should try to stem,
'Stead of landing on Plymouth Rock,
Plymouth Rock would land on them.

In olden days a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking,
But now, God knows,
Anything Goes.

Good authors too who once knew better words,
Now only use four letter words
Writing prose, Anything Goes.

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At his installation:

The CORE will not identify itself as a WELS congregation, and might not identify itself as Lutheran. However, the CORE’s new logo does incorporate a cross.

The service was held in our grade school gymnasium and was well attended. Most of the pastors presiding and attending were wearing jeans and silk shirts, and the Milwaukee band Koine played during the service.

Anything Goes!

Are You Going To Believe Me Or Your Lying Eyes?

Rev. Kristen communing in the new WELS way - gourmet coffee, an evangelism tool never previously revealed to the faithful.

Real Spin has left a new comment on your post "Is the WELS Magazine FIC the Xerox Room for Church...":

Kristin is the "staff minister of worship" not the pastor of the congregation. The Saint Andrews website clearly shows that there is a pastor and vicar (males) as well as a board of elders (all males) presiding over the congregation. www.st-andrew-online.org

The website clearly states that she is "an instrument in ‘administering God’s grace’ in the form of worship gatherings" most likely referring to her help behind the scenes not that she is the one actually administering the means of grace.

If you go further to the sermon downloads you can clearly see that the Pastors preside over the worship service and sermons are delivered by the pastors not the female staff minister.

In the Q&A section of the WELS website there are questions regarding the roles of female staff minister. The answer to one such question is "The specific duties of staff ministers, male or female, will vary with the call extended to them by the calling body. In the case of female staff ministers, of course, the duties may not involve the exercise of authority over men." please see here for context http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=69&cuItem_itemID=7331 additional information on the staff ministry program is available on the MLC website.

Sorry, no female pastor in the WELS just many woman using their God-given abilities in church in a way that is pleasing to God.

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GJ - Short answer: ordained pastors "administer the Means of Grace."

Brief Statement, 2009: The head of Staff Ministry in WELS is Larry Olson, who obtained his drive-by D.Min. from Fuller Seminary, Cloaca Maxima, where anyone questioning women's ordination is disciplined. He also studied at that stealth WELS training center - Trinity, Deerfield. But Larry is known as the Harmless Heretic with only 75 staff ministers trained so far.

Confession of Faith:WELS and Evangelical Covenants AgreeVerbatim!

I started seeing an odd agreement among Church Growth congregations when I read their statements of beliefs. I wondered what the Ur-Document was. I think I have found it. This is better than the Rosetta Stone. I have lined up a few lines with the links. Everyone is encouraged to pursue this.

Craig Groeschel's list is the Rosetta Stone of WELS plagiarism. Let's look at the overall order:

God
Jesus Christ
About the Holy Spirit
About the Bible
About Human Beings
About Salvation
About Eternity

The WELS copycats (and CrossRoads, ECC nee WELS, South Lyons) have listed their beliefs in the same order, with some minor variations. I have listed the Rosetta Stone version first, followed by the rest.

God (Groeschel)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are coequal and are one God.
· Genesis 1:1,26,27,3:22
· Psalm 90:2
· Matthew 28:19
· 1 Peter 1:2
· 2 Corinthians 13:14

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God (Rock and Roll - http://www.ctrtx.net/content/view/20/44/)
God
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty.
Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

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God (CrossRoads, started by WELS in S. Lyons, now Evangelical Covenant - http://www.ecrossroads.net/default.aspx?sectionid=2490&pageid=4060)
About God
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities; the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are coequal and are one God.

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God (CrossWalk, WELS, Phoenix - http://www.crosswalkphoenix.com/explore-faith/statement-of-beliefs.aspx)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons - “ the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty. -- Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

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About God (Crown of Life, Corona, California, WELS - http://www.crownoflifechurch.net/aboutus.html) : God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. Genesis 1:1,26,27, 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14.

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About God (Lord and Savior, WELS, - http://www.lordandsavior.org/site/pastorupdate.asp?sec_id=140001807&nc=1235488527582)

God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.

Genesis 1:1, 26, 27, 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

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ABOUT OUR HEAVENLY FATHER (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
God the Father's special work was to create the universe in which we live. He made us along with every creature, gave us our bodies and souls, as well as our gifts and abilities. He still daily preserves us by richly and daily providing all that we need for our bodies and lives. -- Genesis 1:1-2:3; Psalm 33:6-9; Job 10:10-12; Job 38:36; Psalm 36:6-7; Psalm 145:15-16

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ABOUT GOD (Bethlehem, WELS, Lakeville - http://www.bethlehemlakeville.org/about/our-beliefs)
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty. Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

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ABOUT GOD (Shepherd of the Lakes, WELS, Huebner - Church and Change Board Member - http://shepherdoflakes.com/site/ms.asp?sec_id=140000665)

God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has existed from eternity. Though there is only one God, he is three persons “ the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three persons are equal in power, authority and majesty. -- Genesis 1:1, 26, 27; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19-20; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14

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Jesus Christ (Groeschel)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is coequal with the Father and Holy Spirit. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven and will return again someday to earth to reign as King.
· Matthew 1:22,23
· Isaiah 9:6
· John 1:1-5,14:10-30
· Hebrews 4:14-15
· 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
· Romans 1:3-4
· Acts 1:9-11
· 1 Timothy 6:14-15
· Titus 2:13

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Jesus Christ (Rock and Roll)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life. He offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords.
Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; 1Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4 Acts 1:9-11; 1Timothy 6:14-15; Titus 2:13

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Jesus (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
About Jesus
Jesus is the Son of God. He lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven and will return to take us home to be with Him forever.

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ABOUT JESUS CHRIST (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords. -- Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6: 14-15; Titus 2:13

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About Jesus Christ (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven’s glory and will return again someday to reign as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13

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ABOUT JESUS CHRIST (Bethlehem WELS, Lakeville)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords. Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6: 14-15; Titus 2:13

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ABOUT JESUS CHRIST (Shepherd of the Lakes, WELS, Huebner)

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is equal with the Father in power, authority and majesty. Jesus is both God and man. He lived a sinless life and offered himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all people by dying on a cross. He rose from the dead after three days and demonstrated his power and victory over sin and death. He ascended to heaven to be beside the Father. From there he will one day return to earth to exercise judgment. Jesus lives and rules eternally as King of kings and Lord of lords. -- Matthew 1:22, 23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5; John 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14-15; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; Romans 1:3-4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6: 14-15; Titus 2:13

About the Holy Spirit (Groeschel)

The Holy Spirit is coequal with the Father and the Son of God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. He gives every believer spiritual gifts when they are saved. As Christians we seek to live under His control daily.
· Acts 1:8
· 1 Corinthians 3:17
· John 16:7-13,14:16-17
· Galatians 5:25
· 1 Corinthians 2:12,3:16
· Ephesians 1:13,5:18

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Holy Spirit (Rock and Roll)
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son in power, authority and majesty. Since we cannot by our own thoughts or choices believe in Christ or come to him, the Holy Spirit calls us to faith through the good news of Jesus Christ. He makes us aware of our sin and deep need for Christ. He also draws us to Christ by working through the Word of God and Baptism. After drawing us to faith, the Holy Spirit then carries out the work of renewing us through Word and Sacrament - giving us power for Christian living, understanding spiritual truth and guidance in doing what is pleasing to God. As Christians, we strive to live under his control daily.
2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16-17; Ephesians 1:13

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Holy Spirit (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
The Holy Spirit is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus. He lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding spiritual truth and guidance in doing what is right. As Christians we daily seek to live under His control.

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ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son in power, authority and majesty. Since we cannot by our own thoughts or choices believe in Christ or come to him, the Holy Spirit calls us to faith through the good news of Jesus Christ. He makes us aware of our sin and deep need for Christ. He also draws us to Christ by working through the word of God and Baptism. After drawing us to faith, the Holy Spirit then carries out the work of renewing us through word and sacrament – giving us power for Christian living, understanding spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is pleasing to God. As Christians, we strive to live under his control daily. -- 2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13; John 14:16-17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:18

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About the Holy Spirit (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : The Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Father and the Son of God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ and lead them to faith. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. He gives every believer spiritual gifts. As Christians, we seek to live under His control daily. 2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:18

About the Bible (Groeschel)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs about living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without error.
· 2 Timothy 3:16, 1:13
· 2 Peter 1:20-21
· Psalm 119:105, 160, 12:6
· Proverbs 30:5

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The Bible (Rock and Roll)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors, but this was done under the supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit, a process called inspiration. The Bible is the source of the message of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. It is the source of all truth for Christian beliefs and living. Being inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Bible is completely free of mistakes, errors or contradictions.
2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119: 105, 160; Psalm 12:6; Proverbs 30:5

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The Bible (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. Because it was inspired by God, it is truth without error.

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ABOUT THE BIBLE (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
The Bible is God's Word to us. It was written by human authors, but this was done under the supernatural influence of the Holy Spirit, a process called inspiration. The Bible is the source of the message of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ. It is the source of all truth for Christian beliefs and living. Being inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Bible is completely free of mistakes, errors or contradictions. -- 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119: 105, 160; Psalm 12:6; Proverbs 30:5
About the Bible (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : The Bible is God’s Word to us. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is the truth without any mixture of error. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5

About Human Beings (Groeschel)

People are made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. People are the supreme object of God's creation. Although every person has tremendous potential for good, all of us are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". Sin separates us from God and causes many problems in our life.
· Genesis 1:27
· Psalm 8:3-6
· Isaiah 53:6a
· Romans 3:23
· Isaiah 59:1-2

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Human Beings (Rock and Roll)
People were originally created in the spiritual image of God and were sinless and holy. Since the fall of mankind into sin, this is no longer true. Now, all people are born sinful and are constantly inclined to sin by nature. We are spiritually lost and dead apart from Jesus Christ. However, through faith in Christ we are new-born and are given the ability to serve God, live for his purposes and enjoy his blessings.
Genesis 1:27; Romans 5:12-21; Psalm 51:5; Ephesians 2:1-5; Luke 15; Luke 19:10; John 3:1-21; Romans 12:1-2; 2 Corinthians 9:6-15

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Human Beings (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
People were made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. People are the supreme object of God's Creation. Although every person has tremendous potential for good, all are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God. Sin separates us from God and causes many problems in our lives.

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ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
People were originally created in the spiritual image of God and were sinless and holy. Since the fall of mankind into sin, this is no longer true. Now, all people are born sinful and are constantly inclined to sin by nature. We are spiritually lost and dead apart from Jesus Christ. However, through faith in Christ we are new-born and are given the ability to serve God, live for his purposes and enjoy his blessings. -- Genesis 1:27; Romans 5:12-21; Psalm 51:5; Ephesians 2:1-5; Luke 15; Luke 19:10; John 3:1-21; Romans 12:1-2; 2 Corinthians 9:6-15
About Human Beings (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : People are the supreme object of God's creation. Although in Christ every person has tremendous potential for good, all of us are marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called “sin”. This attitude of disobedience is often called original or inherited sin and is present in every person. It separates people from God and causes many problems in life. Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1, 2

About Salvation (Groeschel)

Salvation is God's free gift to us but we must accept it. We can never make up for our sin by self:improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can anyone be saved from sin's penalty. When we turn from our self:ruled life and turn to Jesus in faith we are saved. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
· Romans 6:23
· Ephesians 2:8-9
· John 14:6, 1:2
· Titus 3:5
· Galatians 3:26
· Romans 5:1, 10:9-10

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Salvation (Rock and Roll)
Salvation is God's free gift to us. It comes to us through no effort or decision on our part. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or a life of goodness and kindness. God won salvation for us by loving us, sending his son Jesus Christ to live a perfect life and die a sacrificial death as our substitute. It is through this act of Jesus that salvation became ours. Even faith is not to our credit, for there too God provides his Holy Spirit to create faith in our hearts and minds. Salvation comes to lost mankind by grace alone, through faith alone, in God’s Word alone.
Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6; John 15:5-16, Romans 3:20-26; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:17

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Salvation (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
Salvation is God's free gift to us. We can never make up for sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus as God's offer of forgiveness can anyone be saved from sin's penalty. When we turn from our self-ruled lives and turn to Jesus in faith we are saved.

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ABOUT SALVATION (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
Salvation is God's free gift to us. It comes to us through no effort or decision on our part. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or a life of goodness and kindness. God won salvation for us by loving us, sending his son Jesus Christ to live a perfect life and die a sacrificial death as our substitute. It is through this act of Jesus that salvation became ours. Even faith is not to our credit, for there too God provides his Holy Spirit to create faith in our hearts and minds. Salvation comes to lost mankind by grace alone, through faith alone, in God’s word alone. -- Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:6; John 15:5-16, Romans 3:20-26; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:17

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About Salvation (Crown of Life, Corona, California) : Salvation is God’s free gift to us received by faith. We can never make up for our sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can anyone be saved from sin's penalty. Eternal life begins the moment Jesus Christ enters into his heart and life by faith. Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1

About Eternity (Groeschel)

People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin or eternally with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life in Heaven. Heaven and hell are real places of eternal existence.
· John 3:16, 14:17
· Romans 6:23, 8:17-18
· Revelation 20:15
· 1 Corinthians 2:7-9

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Eternity (Rock and Roll)
People were created to exist forever. We will exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through the forgiveness and salvation won by Christ. To be eternally separated from God is eternal death or hell. To be eternally united with him in the enjoyment of all his blessings is eternal life or heaven. Heaven and hell are real places where all mankind will exist eternally. In eternity, our bodies and souls are reunited either to suffer the pains of hell or to enjoy the eternal blessings of heaven.
John 3:16; John 14:17; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:17-18; Revelation 20:15; 1 Corinthians 2:7-9

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Eternity (CrossRoads, South Lyons)
People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin or eternally with Him through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is Heaven. Heaven and Hell are real places of eternal existence.

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ABOUT THE LIFE TO COME (CrossWalk, Phoenix)
People were created to exist forever. We will exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through the forgiveness and salvation won by Christ. To be eternally separated from God is eternal death or hell. To be eternally united with him in the enjoyment of all his blessings is eternal life or heaven. Heaven and hell are real places where all mankind will exist eternally. In eternity, our bodies and souls are reunited either to suffer the pains of hell or to enjoy the eternal blessings of heaven. -- John 3:16; John 14:17; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:17-18; Revelation 20:15; 1 Corinthians 2:7-9

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About Eternity (Crown of Life, WELS, Corona, California) : People were created to exist forever. We will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or eternally with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are real places of eternal existence. John 3:16; John 14:17; Romans 6:23; Romans 8:17-18; Revelation 20:15; 1 Cor. 2:7-9

In addition to Essential Beliefs, we uphold the following (Groeschel)

In Non-Essential Beliefs, we have liberty. Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters... Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls... So then each of us will give an account of himself to God... So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.
In All our Beliefs, we show charity. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
· Romans 14:1,4,12,22
· 1 Corinthians 13:2

Catalyst One Day Event:You Need to Know This

Ski went to the November Stanley/Groeschel event:

Groeschel: My church needs my leadership more than my preaching. Interesting thought.
11:46 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
Groeschel: Pastor's who don't take time off are dull of pride and are poor leaders. - wow.
11:42 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
At the one day Catalyst conference. Good stuff
5:41 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
@ the movie in Granger baby! What a town!
6:52 PM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific in reply to the
Going to Granger to see Andy Stanly & Craig Groeshel speak on leadership.
8:31 AM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific

Ski's plans have been made known to his WELS circuit:

At Appleton Circut Pastors Conference. Going to give an update on The CORE.
7:32 AM Dec 1st, 2008 from twitterrific.


Andy Stanley held the Catalyst One Day Event with Evangelical Covenant Minister Craig Groeschel, November, 2008. Here is what he presented:


WHAT YOU WILL LEARN

At Catalyst One Day, you will:

■Discover the key to creating and sustaining momentum in your organization
■Identify and break through the barriers to momentum
■Overcome personal leadership lids
■Leverage the three triggers which ignite organizational momentum
■Create a culture of continual improvement
■Embrace a new approach to leading organizational change

Vintage Groeschel, decanted at a Willow Creek Training Event

1. How many of you have been to a church and it was dead? They didn’t have… IT
2. What about going to a place where you felt God and knew they had… IT?
3. Sarted in a two car garage students met in closet… Every week students came out of the closet
4. They didn’t have the stuff that most people think we need to have a church.
5. Every week people came to know God and invited their friends because they didn’t have the stuff they thought they needed… they had what they needed… The Spir-IT!
6. It’s something more than just the Spirit - to say the people who don’t have it don’t have the spirit would be insulting
7. New York Campus has seen %145 increase in a year - the campus he attends is the only one that has decreased = %3
8. What is it? The answer is = don’t know
   God makes IT happen. We can’t create it, we can’t reproduce it, we can’t manufacture it, it can’t be taught, but it can be caught, it’s not a model, it’s not emergent, purpose driven, seeker sensitive, it is usually brought by more than one person, but usually one person can kill it
9. You could say, “IT Happens!” but often it doesn’t
10. Good news = if you don’t have it, doesn’t mean you can’t find it
11. Bad news = if you have it, you may not keep it
    Acts 2:42-47 -
12. They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
13. Four qualities that are most often there when IT is present:
    
14. Laser Focus - most people today said more ministries/events is better. I believe better ministries is better. Jim Collins asked, “what can you be the very best at?” In order to reach people that no one is reaching, you’ll have to do things that no one else is doing. But to do things that no one else is doing, you can’t do what everyone else is doing! Planned abandonment!
15. Started examining ministries. Concert ministries was just entertaining other churches people. Don’t do
16. Cut all but 5 things. Worship, Small groups, kids ministry, student ministry, missions.
17. What are you doing that you need to STOP doing.
18. They see opportunities where others see obstacles
19. You have everything that you need to do all that God wants you to do.
20. You don’t have what you want or what they think they need, you have what you and they need
21. What if I said you need to raise 100,000 dollars by Friday? Couldn’t do it. What if I said you have to raise 100,000 for a shot for child otherwise they will die? YEP! Overcome the obstacle!
22. He often provides where God doesn’t provide. They had to see something they couldn’t see.
23. What is God trying to show you through your greatest limitation?
24. They are willing to fail
25. Failure is not an option… I agree, “It’s a necessity!”
26. Peter couldn’t have done what he did if he hadn’t failed! He failed walking on water, he failed by denying Him, but he succeeded feeding his sheep! 3,000 were saved!
27. They failed starting two campuses in Phoenix and ended up having to merge them
28. There are two steps to failure.
29. The Mule - shook of the dirt, the dirt started piling up at his feet and he started stepping up. SHAKE IT OFF! STEP IT UP!
30. What has God called you to do that you are afraid to attempt? When are you going to do it?
31. They are led by people who have IT!
32. You need to have IT for your ministry to have IT!
33. Before long ministry started to kill IT! It became less about building his kingdom and more about building my church. I started preaching messages that would bring people in instead of pleasing to God
34. I tried to be Rick Warren - but I’m accidental. I tried to be Joel Osteen - but I’m not that happy!
35. When you have IT in you, it starts coming out, and other people with IT will come to you
36. We start to try to acquire the things we don’t need to have IT
37. God showed me I had became a full time pastor and a part time follower of Christ! DANG!
38. I stopped reading other books, and started just reading the Bible. I went to another country and held a baby that would probably die after I left. I started fasting again!
39. Let God break your heart again!
40. If you read this say a prayer for Mike. A guy Craig has been ministering to for 4 years and still hasn’t accepted Christ!
41. If you don’t have it what are you going to do to get it?
42. WOW! Go here and buy his message if you are a church leader. It should be up here later.

---

So here is Swerve, where Groeschel is writing about borrowing an Andy Stanley sermon. If Swerve sounds familiar - Ski is a follower.

How To Use Someone Else's Material

Recently I used Andy Stanley’s series, “How to Be Rich.” (If you haven’t listened to his messages, I highly recommend that you do.)

Here’s what we did:

•We asked for permission. (For the record, if you use something from LifeChurch.tv Open, you don’t have to ask for permission. Since I didn’t know North Point’s stance, asking permission seemed like the right thing to do.)
•We gave Andy credit publicly and sent people to his church’s website.
•We sent Andy a note with a small gift to say “thank you.” (This obviously isn’t necessary, but I wanted to express my gratitude for his hard work, excellent material, and generosity.)
Parts of the series included almost exclusively his material. Other parts were very much my own. To me, he deserved full credit and honor for God’s work through him.

Several people thanked me for exposing them to North Point’s ministry. I’m thrilled to turn them on to a great spiritual resource.

When have you observed this done well?

This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 22nd, 2008 at 5:46 am and is filed under communication. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

---

Since Groeschel has to borrow sermons, we have to wonder if those, like Ski, who borrow Groeschel, are ever getting original material to foist on their audiences.

One person actually objected to this practice. I have some of his material copied below. Please read the entire essay.

When it comes to matters of integrity and decency, the normal course of events it seems, is that the secular culture and the world often condones that which the church condemns. For example, when the world calls adultery an “affair,” justifies divorce without cause, or calls addictions “diseases,” it is then the church that holds its own people accountable to a higher standard of morality and has less toleration for a lack of integrity and morality.

Although we typically find the world celebrating sin and the church confronting it, there is one area where this seems to be reversed: Plagiarism.

When it comes to intellectual property, copying another person’s work, and presenting it as one’s own, the secular world has absolutely no room for toleration. However, the church too often fails to condemn the same behavior, and sometimes even boasts of its use!

Why?

Consider this, can you imagine a member of congress standing up and saying “Last night I was doing some research and 74% of …” when he didn’t, but was reciting another person’s experience? Or what about a CEO standing in front of his board of directors saying “I remember it like it was yesterday,” while every word he speaks is another person’s history? Or what about your child’s 6th grade English teacher grading a book report presentation that was actually memorized from another student’s report?

We all know what happens when people in the secular world behave this way. Last year, an aide to the president resigned. Ironically, a university was recently under fire for copying another school’s policy on, plagiarism. Even Oprah Winfrey has been embarrassed, twice, for endorsing books written by authors who have manufactured history. If this behavior was appropriate, why was Oprah embarrassed by it, and why was it a scandal in the secular press? How can it then be endorsed by those who claim the name of Christ, and be tolerated by churches who practice this deceptive behavior while claiming and even openly bragging about their churches being “authentic” and “genuine?”

So what exactly am I talking about, the reader might ask? Am I talking about a pastor who hears another pastor’s sermon and wants to share it with his congregation, uses the same outline and verse, and disclaims ahead of time what he is doing? While I think doing so should be rare, it isn’t what I am criticizing here. This post is also not concerned specifically with a pastor who reads another’s sermon aloud, and tells his congregation what he is doing. While that should be rare too, it isn’t what I am addressing in this post.

What I am focusing on is the use of the same sermon, the same text, the same examples, and the same experiences, even first person, as if they are one’s own.

Craig Groeschel, who gives his sermons away on the Internet for free says, “It isn’t plagiarizing if you’re given permission,” and also agrees that “just because it isn’t plagiarizing doesn’t always mean you shouldn’t give credit to others.”

While I agree with Pastor Groeschel’s definition, I think it is incomplete, because plagiarism, I believe, also includes the element of deception when a sermon is presented, because the expectation of the congregation, without being notified, is that the material is the speaker’s own work. Especially when examples, experiences, and testimonies are spoken in first person. Just because a pastor has permission to use someone else’s material, this doesn’t mean he is without responsibility to not compromise his integrity to his hearers by presenting the material to them as if it were the work of his own study and preparation.

Craig Groeschel is a member of the Evangelical Covenant Church, closely related in doctrine to Trinity, Deerfield, where Larry Olson studied, and where WELS spends so much money in training that The Sausage Factory is listed twice in their catalogue as a sponsor.

Affiliation
LifeChurch.tv is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC) - a rapidly growing multi-ethnic denomination in the United States and Canada with ministries on five continents of the world. Founded in 1885 by Swedish immigrants, the ECC values the Bible as the Word of God, the gift of God's grace and ever-deepening spiritual life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ, the importance of extending God's love and compassion to a hurting world, and the strength that comes from unity within diversity.

What makes the Covenant unique from other denominations is the fact that while it strongly affirms the clear teaching of the Word of God, it allows believers the personal freedom to have varying interpretations on theological issues that are not clearly presented in Scripture.

Note the statement of beliefs on the same page, which will occupy a separate post above.

Thou Shalt Not StealMaybe Mequon Should Close Too

Hmm. How am I going to teach that commandment?
The kids have googled my sermon series.
Ski is a follower of Craig Groeschel - from the very liberal Methodist and Disciples of Christ denominations.

Kelm got hired at The Love Shack for his skills in copy and paste.

Ichabodians, tell me you did not see it coming.

Paul Kuske and LPR were doing the Rock and Roll scene (badly) 20 years ago. Now The CORE emerges as a cruder, simpler, more childish version of all previous experiments. WELS is always experimenting with safe sects. In fact, so many pastors experimented with safe sects that they have left the Lutheran Church altogether to join their Babtist and Pentecostal brethren.

But do not be alarmed. You do not have to join another denomination now. You can join one of the WELS Church and Chicanery congregations across the synod. C and C is a non-geographical district managed by Church and Change/Parish Services.

Here is the proof.

Go to The CORE website, which is easy to remember:

http://www.gotocore.com

Look up: What will the pastor talk about this week?

The dates and topics are all lined up.

Starting on February 22nd, there are four on kaleo. I am guessing that Ski was not the best Greek student, since English itself is a foreign language for him. And using Greek in a sermon title is very Junior-year.

Oh wait. I found the exact same set of sermons here:

http://open.lifechurch.tv/series/3445

Week 1 Called to Care
Week 2 Called to Generosity
Week 3 Called to Serve
Week 4 Called to Make Disciples

And another set of The CORE sermons are at the same site:

http://open.lifechurch.tv/series/19

Week 1 The Pain of Loss
Week 2 The Pain of Suffering
Week 3 The Pain of Rejection

The pain series is exactly the same as the website's, in the same order.

Note the FAQs from the website:

General Questions
Q: What is LifeChurch.tv Open?

A: LifeChurch.tv Open is a site where churches can access, download and use creative content for free. It includes much of the creative work that the staff at LifeChurch.tv has done over the past few years and will be updated with new content going forward.

Q: What type of resources are available on this site?

A: The content includes, but is not limited to, message series artwork, themed videos that are used to promote and brand a series (provided in full resolution), message outlines, and layered graphic files.

Q: What does it cost?

A: Absolutely nothing. We do require that you agree to a license agreement (it's free) and that you use the content in a non-commercial manner in an effort to "lead people to become fully devoted followers of Christ." We do not want attribution (our name or brand to be on it). If we want anything it is to hear about how it impacted people in your church or community...please come back to the site and let us know.

Q: Why is LifeChurch.tv making this available for free?

A: We are passionate about changed lives and if there is even a chance that some of our creative content is useful to other churches in a effort to reach people for Christ....we are extremely excited about the opportunity to make it all available.


Q: So I don't have to mention that I got this from LifeChurch.tv?

A: That's right. You can use the content in your church and we actually perfer that you do not give us credit. Basically, you can pretend it's your own.

Q: Can I get it sent to me in on a DVD or CD or something else that I can hold in my hand?

A: No. We are only providing this content throught this website for you to download. It is free, and we are not able to mail or send it to you in another format (even if you were willing to pay us). Sorry if this is an inconvenience, but it is the only way that we can provide it to everyone and still stay focused on the vision that God has called us to.

Q: Is there any "fine print" in the license agreement?

A: Not that we are aware of, but PLEASE do read the license.

Q: What if I do not like any of the content you have available?

A: That's OK. We hope some of it is useful to others, but don't expect the content to be something that everyone will like. You can also come back in the future, maybe there will be something new that will work.

Q: Are there any copyright issues with the audio libraries that you use in your creative content?

A: Unless there is something that we overlooked, we have specifically procured (paid above our normal license fees) all the necessary licenses from any audio libraries, etc. used in our resources. This is not only for distribution of the resources that include them, but also for the rebroadcast of those items as long as they are not used for commercial purposes as we require in our license.

Q: Can I edit the video teaching messages that I download?

A: No. The video teaching downloads cannot be edited and must be used in their entirety. You can modify the videos to playback on different formats, but you cannot otherwise edit the teaching videos. This restriction helps us ensure that parts of the message are not taken out of their original context or intent. Thank you for understanding.

Q: How do I download complete message file to a DVD?

A: To burn the image directly to a DVD, you will need to install third party software that is capable of understanding and burning image (img or iso) files. Most popular DVD burning software include support for burning images.

If you do not currently own any commerical software that supports this function (e.g. Nero, Roxio), then you can download a freeware program that will burn the DVD image to disc. Please consult the vendor-specific documentation for further assistance in burning the image to disc.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Thou Shalt Not StealMaybe Mequon Should Close Too":

Wow. Thanks for the research.

***

GJ - I am wondering, "Why waste all that money on The Sausage Factory when the graduates are just copying sermons from the websites of false teachers - without any discipline."

Only recently Kelm gave a paper at Mequon on how to improve seminary education. He is an example of their complete failure.

This Just In - From the Church and Chicanery Grapevine

This is one of the nodes of the Church and Chicanery grapevine..

District VP Don Patterson organized the trip to see Brother Stetzer at the pan-multi-denominational Emerging Church fest.

Joe Krohn, who is best buds with Patterson, bragged that Doebler is OK with the Conference of Pussycats, that Rock and Roll got another grant.

The grapevine tells me the grant from the Antioch Foundation was not as juicy as applied for. Rock and Roll got $20,000, which was either 20% or only 10% of what they applied for. Doubtless they studied the grantsmanship lessons hard at the last Church and Chicanery conference. But alas, Antioch is not Texas-oriented and everyone is short on cash.

So maybe Joe was providing spin on the Rock and Roll story.

I can never remember the exact URL of Rock and Roll, so I use the original URL, churchfromscratch.net. That still goes automatically to the fancy-dancy website.

Ski's is even fancier, with Flash movies.

Both WELS pastors are copying sermons series from non-Lutherans. But that is not news, is it?

---

From one leader of Church and Change, more snarkiness:

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "This Just In - From the Church and Chicanery Grape...":

Time of Grace Speaker to
Deliver Bartling Lecture
Rev. Mark Jeske, pastor and speaker for Time of Grace, will deliver the annual Bartling Lecture address on Tuesday, March 3, from 7-8:30 pm at Concordia University Wisconsin.

He will repeat his address entitled “Can Lutheranism Exist Without An Adequate Supply of Germans?” the following day, from 12-1 pm.

The events will be held in The Lake Shore Room.

Time of Grace is a national television and media ministry based in Milwaukee, where Rev. Jeske shares the good news of Jesus Christ in a half-hour
Bible Study format. It is seen and heard in more than 20 US markets, including Milwaukee, Chicago,
Minneapolis, St. Louis, Orlando and Washington D.C. For more information on The Bartling Lecture
Series, contact Dr. Timothy Maschke at 262-243-4252.

WELS Votes Oscars for Worst New Mission...Ever

The CORE goes multi-Oscar in WELS. Read below.

Anonymous said...
Some say spelling and grammar are no longer relevant...maybe Reverend Ski really is in touch.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

If WELS allows this place to continue as one of their 'churches', I believe that is going to be the last straw for me and my family. I wouldn't have to travel 20 miles to my nearest WELS church. There's an Assembly of God just down the street and I can go there and save the gas. I am watching this place and mostly Synod's reaction to it very closely. It's going to tell us all if they are serious about cleaning their house or just turning it over to the squatters.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

The man in love with false teachers of all kinds. At the same time, he despises orthodox teachers. (Deutschlander was presenting at the pastors' conference for which Ski commented: "Ugh!" Apparently skipping Deutschlander to go to sit at the feet of a heretic wasn't enough. Now he has to say "ugh" to Deutschlander's presentations, too.) He loves the worship and methods devised by false teachers who do not know or understand the means of grace. He fawns over their writings. So Why should I be stupid enough to believe that Ski is orthodox? Does he rilly thinck everywon else is as stewpid as he is?

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

"Ugh! Pastor's conference."

Ugh! THE CORE.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

-How can he fit his Enthusiastic church into the parameters of the WELS-

The question should be WHY would he want to? Why not go find whatever flavor of church wants this stuff and blend in over there?

Norman Teigen has left a new comment on your post "WELS Church and Change Mission Check-List":

I thought that this was funny. Of course, if my mug were posted I probably wouldn't think it so funny. You have probably found a few [new?] career, that of satirist.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

this guy has got to go! reminds me of a clock on my wall...cuckcoo, cuckcoo

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

Hey Ski... if you want to 'do church' at your imax theater.. knock your socks off, Ski! No ushers to stop you from anything you want to do on your so-called alter or aisles. You'll answer for this abomination some day. i just hope and pray you're not getting a single penny of the rank and file's hard-earned offerings.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

He seems proud of his friends outside the WELS fellowship. Wonder when the last time he talked to President Schroeder about this project and got his thoughts on it. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of his fellow WELS pastors must be shaking their collective heads at this. You know, maybe it's not a bad idea to close MLS afterall. If this is the kind of pastors they're churning out over there, I say shut it down! How can he fit his Enthusiastic church into the parameters of the WELS. Isn't there a Baptist or Pentecostal church somewhere that can take this clown off our hands??

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

I don't think Reverend Ski is a suitable representation of either the graduates of MLS nor of the residents of his former home--the Michigan District.

The only thing more Northern Wisconsin than his doctrines and practice is his spelling.

This is what happens when a kid gets an associate pastor call to St. Marcus.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

Anon @ 10:54 wrote:

"Isn't there a Baptist or Pentecostal church somewhere that can take this clown off our hands??"
---------------

They took him off the hands of St. Peter's for many Sundays before The CORE was finished :-)

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

I wonder if all you WELS people commenting on this blog have addressed "Ski" porsonally (sic) about his unionism. If you haven't, you have no business talking about it on this rag.

Matthew 18 variation, revealing no knowledge at all about Matthew 18 in the Large Catechism, not to mention what the LC says about the Eighth Commandment and published false doctrine.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whoopy-Worship: Best Learned at Non-Denominational...":

Anon @ 1:37PM wrote
I wonder if all you WELS people commenting on this blog have addressed "Ski" porsonally about his unionism. If you haven't, you have no business talking about it on this rag.
-------------

I have. To no avail. Now are you going to weigh in on the matter or is a misapplication of the 8th commandment all you have to offer?

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "WELS Votes Oscars for Worst New Mission...Ever":

You are misrepresenting what the Large Catechism is saying about the 8th Commandment, Greg, and that's what condemns you! Yes, public offense should be corrected publicly, but IT HAS TO BE MADE TO THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS COMMITTING THE OFFENSE. You have no idea if Ski is reading your rag or not. If I were to start a gossip blog and talk to everyone about Greg Jackson and his past public sins (yes, you do have some, and you know it), but you didn't read my blog--that would not be public admonition. That would be gossip and a breaking of the 8th Commandment. The shoe fits--are you going to put it on before it's too late?

***

GJ - Actually, Mouse, or Joe, I do know he is reading it. He tweated his pals about someone who wrote about him and asked him to be a friend on Facebook. That dude could only be me. You are certainly getting the Large Catechism wrong. Luther's point was that he did not have to sit down with the Antichrist, hold his hand, and tell him why he was wrong. What is published can be addressed publicly, and Ski just cannot stop blabbing in public. Ski is doing WELS a favor, because he says openly what the rest of Church and Chicanery says secretly.

And by the way, a group of pastors went to see Kelm about his false doctrine. Kelm made it very clear he was not moving off his Deformed stance. I published Church and Chicanery list-serve material showing that Kelm would not even listen to the kindest possible words, the pleading requests, of fellow pastors about the Leonard Sweet invitation. In fact, he announced he would no longer answer any communication about Sweet.

From: Brian Lampe
To: church_and_change@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 4:09:53 PM
Subject: [church_and_change] CEO Christian Workshop



Dear Church and Change Members,

Christ Empowered Opportunities
March 21st 2009 7:30 A.M- 5:30 P.M
Generation of Reformation Best Western suites Brookfield, WI
Ladies and Gentlemen imagine sinking your teeth into your favorite grilled meat (or soy cheese blend for the vegetarian). What a relief, spring is just around the corner, and so is the 2009 Christian workshop!
Renew your mind through Christ and prepare yourself to improve your health, relationships, finances, faith, and overall well being.
Together with we will gain insight on how to break free from our past and the things that are holding us back from living a fully engaged life in Christ. Understanding our limitations, yet keeping our passion for God by making the necessary adjustments to utilize Christ led movement risk and faith. These options which will give us the courage to begin our inescapable calling and fulfill God’s purpose.
In addition, you will participate in interactive group sessions, and take home tools necessary to assist you personally, your family, and members of your congregation. It’s not our goal to change your whole life pattern, but hear a few ideas on to pattern your whole life through Christ
A registration form is below, but can be downloaded at CEO-ministries.com, or call Brian Arthur Lampe 414-915-3211

Name_______________________________________________________

Address_____________________________________________________

City___________________________ State___________ Zip___________

E-Mail_______________________________________________________
Check Enclosed $45.00_______________
Please mail registration form and payment to
St Marcus
2215 N Palmer
Milwaukee, WI 53212

The Indicators - Do I Have the Right Website?

The Indicators seem to be lapsed South Babtists.

On You Tube.

Ski and Company bragged ton Twitter hat The Indicators went back to Kentucky after performing for The CORE.

Slow Monday. The Indicators head back to KY and some much needed rest for The CORE
staff.

Is this the group?

I have linked that website, but I am not sure it is the right one. I do not want to copy the content. Please prove me wrong, someone.

A doctor of divinity has informed me that my googled guess was correct:

Leaving the ski's hands down the best people in the world. We love them and the copious amounts of cheese we just purchased!
about 4 hours ago from twitterrific

watching the oscars 4 hours late...appleton, wi style. after kicking off the core in style. the core a church you actually want to go to.
about 15 hours ago from web

The three (3) followers are:

pastorski


kstrandlund


DCFF / Derby City Film Fest



Media page

When watching any video that The Indicators have made, it is safe to assume that it contains extreme content. If you can't/shouldn't handle that, please don't click on anything, turn off your computer and go watch Oprah. You have been warned.

Going Green! - Click Here.

Fantasy Football - Click Here.

Man O' Pause - Click Here.

Ben Owens' Response Attack Ad - Click Here.

James Cronin's Responsible Father Campaign Ad - Click Here.

Ben Owens Campaign American Attack Ad - Click Here.

WWJD for a Klondike Bar? - Click Here.

Gibberish Replay - Click Here.

Whadcha Say? - Click Here.

Global Stereotyping with Lil' James - Click Here.

New Marines Commercial "America's Marines" - Parody - Click Here.

Channel Surfing Highlight Footage - Click Here.

Y'allState Commercial - TP - Click Here.

Anniversary Dinner - Click Here.

Unforgivable - Click here.

I got an accent - Click Here.

Helen Keller Spaghetti Sauce - Click Here.

Y'allstate - Condom - Click here.

Lost your keys? - Click here.

Come on Eileen. - Click here.

Brown'll help you change a diaper. - Click here.

Y'allstate - Check. Y'allstate just might reward you for being safe. Click here.

What can Brown do for you? Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - Poker - Jesus knows when to hold 'em. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - Prank Call - Jesus, Luke and Kaya being naughty. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - Rejection - Jesus never forgets. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - No! - Jesus callin' the shots. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - Karaoke - Jesus jammin'. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - Tickets - Jesus is a carpenter and an entrepreneur. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - Pushups - Jesus and Paul gettin' fit. Click here.

Ben's Fear - Just in time for Halloween. The title says it all. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - On the phone - Jesus being pestered while on the phone. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - Bored - Jesus and Paul trying to decide what to do. Click here.

Hangin' with Jesus - RPHS - Jesus and Luke throwin' down. Click here.

Sometimes it is hard to talk to your kids about important issues. Let the Indicators give you a few pointers. Click here.

And you thought you were the only one in this kind of relationship. Click Here.

See how the internet has changed the meaning of "home based business."Click here.

Watch Lil' James try the new turd jerky. Click here.

Have you ever wondered what would happen if Neil battled a tampon? No? Well screw you! Yes? Click here.

The Indicators have been broughten to you by these amazingly fine sponsors. Click here.

---

Twitter:

@theindicators so love that you are on twitter! going to bring some much needed laughter to my days!
26 minutes ago from TweetDeck in reply to theindicators
@BrewCrewBall amen to that! counting down for sure.
about 2 hours ago from TweetDeck in reply to BrewCrewBall
i don't think anyone comprehends what i've gotten myself into. definitely going to need the Lord's help to survive life the next few months!
about 2 hours ago from TweetDeck

---

God is working around here: The Core, St. Matthew, in my home, my personal life, my family, the next few weeks God is going to something big
12:06 PM Feb 19th from web

---

Jammin' for the Lamb at St Peters this weekend - can't wait!
5 days ago from web
@pastorski Do you see the light?! (from the Rev. James Brown)
5 days ago from web in reply to pastorski
@kstrandlund Welcome to the dark side.
5 days ago from web in reply to kstrandlund
@pastorski Now the tuning begins
19 days ago from web in reply to pastorski
Getting ready for work at 4:00 am. Can't wait to get everything nailed dowm with the sound at the CORE, the sound

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The Indicators - Do I Have the Right Website?":

Only a legalist would take offense that these folks might have been at The Core. Heaven forbid they might hear the Word and be saved. Thankfully Christ did not take such a stance. He frequently supped with tax collectors and all kinds of characters of ill repute.

***

GJ - Christ did not allow people to mock the Word of God. He tossed the money-changers from the Temple area And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. KJV John 2:16

And Paul -

KJV 2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

WELS Church and Change Mission Check-List

Wealthy donors. Check.

Babtist training. Check.

A movie theatre. Check.

Free Wi-Fi. Check.

Gourmet coffee. Check.

A popcorn machine. Check.

A rock band. Check.

A full-time Executive Assistant. Check.

Misuse of the Eighth Commandment and Matthew 18. Check.

The leadership and sermons of Mark Driscoll. Check.

WELS Parish Services, aka Church and Change. Check.