WELS Nenbers Alert - Conference of Pussycats Meeting in Puerto Rico. Notes from Deppity Doug Hisself

Notes from Depitty Doug, verbatim.

***

GJ - I wanted to check some facts so I clicked on the WELS.net website for some documents. The official list for the Synodical Conference calls them Synodical Conference Nenbers. They cannot spell "Members" at headquarters? WELS is so bad that I suggest viewing any document with suspicion if it lacks egregious spelling errors. That could be a sign that it is a clever forgery from the LCMS or the ee-vul ELS.

Here is the update from Doug. How did I get it? Loose lips sink ships.

---

From: welsnwpd@aol.com

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:43 AM

Subject: COP summary

 

Brothers,

 

Below is a summary of the recent off-site meeting of the COP.  As always,if there are any questions about the things you read in the summary, do not hesitate to e-mail me or give me a call.

 

DOUG

 

Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod

Conference of Presidents

January 7-11, 2012

San Juan, Puerto Rico

 

A G E N D A

 

Saturday, January 7

 

8:30 a.m.         Bible study (wives welcome!)                                           Joel Petermann

District President Joel Petermann led us in a devotion based on Matthew 9:9-13.  The title of his devotion was:”Battling With Jesus For The Basement Of My Heart”.    He pointed out that we need to battle together with Jesus (not battling against Jesus, but along with Him), empowered by the Holy Spirit, against the attitude that may lie at the bottom of our heart that we are not necessarily in the same category as the tax collectors and “sinners”.    Through daily confession we can remind ourselves of the fact that we are among the sinners that Jesus came to call, and that we are not “the righteous”, for no one is righteous apart from Christ.   We can find great comfort in the fact that Jesus came to call sinners such as we, and that He is the physician, who alone can cure us of our sinful condition.  We closed our devotion with the singing of What Grace Is This! (CWS 715) and prayer. 

 

9:00 a.m.         Plenary session – preliminary business

           

            Consent agenda

CA.01 Minutes, October 2011 meeting and November and December  2011

            teleconferences1  

A motion was made and carried to accept the consent agenda.

P.01     Approval of the agenda

A motion was made and carried to accept the agenda as presented.

P.02     President’s report

President Schroeder gave an oral report on things going on in the synod:

·         An ad hoc committee is working on putting both of the synod buildings that we now have up for sale to resolve the problem of having two properties; there is great commercial value in the 2929 property, but the timing is not the best right now, although there is some interest from several parties.    The Pewaukee property is very marketable and would be listed at present value, which is above the short-sale purchase price.  The former prospective buyer of the 2929 property would have had to put down earnest money at the end of the due diligence period, but backed out the day before that period was up. 

·         CMO subscriptions to date (only 20% in at this point in time) are up from last year; 2011 gifts are considerably lower than budgeted;  the “lock box” closes on Monday and the hope is that year end receipts will come in strong. 

·         There are a number of personnel changes taking place at the SAB due to retirements and people accepting other positions; more “pooling” of staff is being considered; Jon Flannigan, who has handled HR duties previously, is taking care of the HR matters until someone is hired to replace former HR director, Roger Crawford, who resigned for health reasons. 

 

P.03     Preview and initial discussion of committee tasks

 

P.04     Future meetings and significant dates

            March 26-28 @ SAB          8:30 AM Monday to Noon Wednesday

May 17-19 (at MLC)

May 17-18:                   Assignments (begins 8:00 am)

May 18                          MLC Commencement concerts (4:00 &7:30 PM)

May 19                          MLC Graduation (10 AM) and call service (2:30 PM)

May 21                          Meet at SAB

May 22-25 (at WLS)                         

May 22:                         Vicar assignments (begins 8:00 am)

Vicar call service (7:00 pm)

May 23:                         Pastor assignments (begins 8:00 am)

May 24:                         WLS Call day service (10:00 am)

May 25:                         WLS Graduation (10:00 am)         

October 8-11                        COP meeting in Milwaukee

January 11-16                     Off-site COP meeting

 

P.05     Green sheet review and update 1

The district presidents went through the list of men in their districts who could benefit from a call, listed those who should be considered CRM, and presented the names of those who should not be considered for calls at this time due to health concerns, family concerns, or special situations. 

P.06     Interviews, inquiries, and colloquy update

P.07     Special situations

A number of special situations were discussed, including the Milwaukee Hope Schools and congregations in other districts with special needs or problems.  

P.08     Retirement calls

P.09     Vacancy profile        

The district presidents presented the pastoral vacancies that they have in their districts as well as vacancies for theologically trained individuals in institutions, world missionaries, and synodically called individuals.  Totals are:  37 vacant parishes,  3 semi- retired,  1 foreign missionary,  3 professors, and  3 other.     

There are approximately 22 vicars  and 34-35 graduates that will be available in May for assignment.

 

1:30 p.m.        Plenary discussion (see list)

Sunday, January 8

 

Morning        Worship at area churches

                        San Juan (times unconfirmed)                    Guayama

2 vans                                                 3 vans

9:30 a.m. Worship service                9:15 a.m. Bible study

10:30 a.m. Fellowship                                   10:00 a.m. Worship service

11:00 a.m. Bible study                      Schroeder

Rutschow                                                       Buchholz

Guse                                                                Treptow

Huebner                                                         Naumann

Prahl                                                   Engelbrecht

Lambert                                              Seifert

Degner                                                            Voss

Pasbrig                                                Petermann      Glaeske

                                                                                   

    The trip to Guayama at the south end of the island to worship with our brothers and sisters in Christ there was very uplifting.   District President Jon Buchholtz, who was a former vicar in Guayama, preached the sermon in Spanish.  After the worship service, we were invited to join in fellowship with the members and stay for the noon meal before returning to San Juan.  We had a chance to meet with many of the  members, including the two sons of Pastor  Sergio Cortijo, who are studying to be pastors in the Lutheran Church of Puerto Rico. “How good it is and how pleasant to live in unity and peace.  How good it is and how pleasant to live together in one Lord!”   (CWS 773)                                                                            

Monday, January 9

 

8:00 a.m.         Bible study                                                                           Joel Petermann

District President Joel Petermann continued with the theme “Battling With Jesus For The Basement Of My Heart.   His second study was based on Matthew 12:1-8.    The devotion brought up the subject of rules obscuring the mission. The Pharisees were more concerned about following the ”rules” and not very concerned about the purpose of the Sabbath, because they did not see Jesus as the Lord of the Sabbath.   We closed our devotion with the singing of hymn # 737 “God’s Own Child I Gladly Own It” and prayer. 

 

The members of the COP had the opportunity to spend Monday afternoon with their wives touring various places on the island. 

Tuesday, January 10

 

8:30 a.m.         Bible study                                                                           Joel Petermann

In the third devotion District President Joel Petermann brought out the matter of “pretense” and how the type of pretense displayed by the Pharisees in Matthew 23:25-28 is actually there in all of us.  Because pastors want the Gospel to be seen in a good light, we tend to wear a mask that does not let our people see what we are actually like, i.e. sinners like everybody else.   The cure for such pretense is confession and trust in the blood atonement of Christ.  We closed our devotion with the singing of hymn # 738 “In Hopelessness And Near Despair”. [GJ - Appropriate.]

 

9:00 a.m.         Presentation and discussion on Ministry Issues          Paul Wendland

Since the parameters of our off-site meetings each year call for them to involve elements of  leadership  training,  Seminary President Paul Wendland was invited to lead us in a presentation entitled “Walking Together, In Step With The Truth Of The Gospel” (Reclaiming the “E” in WELS).   Details of that discussion and various exercises that we went through are summarized in the section below entitled “Discussion on Ministry Issues”.

 

10:00 a.m.       Open discussion with area pastors

We were thrilled to have time to meet with the pastors and leaders of the Lutheran Church of Puerto Rico with whom we share fellowship in the gospel.   The men from the Island of Puerto Rico introduced themselves:

• Sergio Cortijo,  the president of the Lutheran Church of Puerto Rico, who also serves three congregations.
• Raphael Alvarez, president of the Lutheran church in Guayama, and treasurer of the Lutheran Church in Puerto Rico. 
• Manuel Munroig, the pastor at True God Lutheran Church in San Juan. 
• Jean Rivera Monthouel,   a member of the church in Guayama. 

 

It was a joy to hear their confession of faith as well as the challenges that the Lord has placed before them and the victories He has granted them through the gospel.  It was interesting to note that many of the challenges to ministry that they face in Puerto Rico are the same ones we face in the United States.

 

12:00 noon     Lunch with area pastors and church leaders

                       

1:00 p.m.        Presentation and discussion on Ministry Issues          Paul Wendland

President Wendland continued his presentation to the COP.   We discussed the difference between DOCTRINE, PRACTICE, and APPLICATION, utilizing an exercise that helped us discuss various practices/applications by rating them E – Essential, D – desirable, N – neutral, or U – undesirable.  Several other exercises helped us discuss the efficacy vs. the stewardship of the Word.   An important question in connection with these discussions was:  what does a church body do when individuals/minorities adopt different practices than “the norm”?  It is clear that communication is vitally important among brothers.  It is also clear that the solution to the issues we face in this respect is not to establish a set of rules or make policies for everything, but to continue to talk brother to brother as members of the COP in order to come to consensus and a resolution if at all possible. 

 

3:30 p.m         Continue Presentation and discussion on Ministry Issues    Paul Wendland

                                                            Or     Committee time

Wednesday, January 11

 

8:30 a.m.         Bible study                                                                           Joel Petermann

The last of devotions was based on Matthew 22:34-40, the story of the expert in the law trying to trip up Jesus by asking which, in His opinion, was the greatest of the commandments.  Jesus’ response to the question the Pharisees asked brings out the need to fight against love of self.  The great commandment is to love God, the love we have for our neighbor is the application of the great commandment.  It is comforting to know that Jesus not only spoke these words, but also did what they say…in our place!  We closed our devotion with the singing of hymn #727 “There Is A Higher Throne” and prayer. 

 

9:00 a.m.         Plenary discussion and/or resolutions

• The members of the COP summarized the leadership sessions it had with President Wendland and further discussed issues related to the material we went through.
• We discussed the procedure for replacing MCG director Dave Liggett, who has announced his retirement in the fall of 2012.
• VP James Huebner gave us an update on the plan to have an every member visit by every congregation in the WELS in the fall of 2012 or spring of 2013.  The program will be introduced at the district conventions.

 

12:00 noon     Adjournment

 

Plenary Discussion items:

            PD.01  Vicar selection priorities (Called Workers:  W.4)

The seminary has a committee working on a recommended list of places where they feel the best possible situation would exist for training a vicar.  We are in a transitional phase.  Self-supporting congregations requesting and fully supporting a vicar are can no longer be the criterion that guarantees a congregation will receive one.  The seminary and the COP are more interested in the quality of the vicar experience than in congregations providing the support for the program.  The hope is that all the funding for the vicar program can become part of the regular allocation of budgetary funds given to the seminary for its over-all program.   The seminary desires the input of the members of the COP as well when recommending places for vicars to serve.  The DP’s made a preliminary list of the three congregations in their district, in priority order, that they feel would provide the best place for a vicar to be assigned.   A summary will be provided by February.

 

PD.02  Translation issues, including discussion of possible ballot format (for benefit of the Presidium); possible new translation; reaction to ELS Doctrine Committee resolution (Doctrine:  D.1)

District President Petermann gave a report on the recent symposium held at the seminary on translations.  After the participants did their own exegesis of various passages, they were asked to rate translations of the passages that they had worked on, not being told what translation they came from.  The participants voted the NIV 2011, by a wide margin, over the HCSB, the ESV, and the participants’ own translations (in that order)  as the preferred translation.    The TEC has come to the conclusion that more time is needed to make a decision and would prefer not to have a vote taken at the district conventions.  There was considerable discussion on whether or not it is wise to proceed with the resolution of the convention to take a vote at the 2012 district conventions. [GJ - How best to manipulate this democratic process until we get the opponents to surrender?]

 

                        PD.03  Wider offering for 2017 (Congregations:  C.2)

Though we are hesitant to carry out special offerings in emergency situations as we have in the past, the question is, is there value in having a special offering in observance of the 500^th anniversary of the Reformation in 2017 if there is a definite goal such as opening more missions, etc.   Discussion was held, but no decision was made.   

 

PD.04  Biblical principles of divorce in light of internet pornography (Doctrine: D.2)

President Schroeder asked for input into appointing an ad hoc committee to study the principles of divorce in light of the development of the internet and the problems that it poses through internet pornography.   The suggestion was made that a three-man committee be appointed consisting of a COP member, a seminary professor, and a parish pastor.   The committee would be preparing their work at the behest and for the  benefit of the COP so that a final COP document can be produced. 

 

                        PD.05 Status of Andrew DeGier 1 and Aaron West

The discussion of the status of these two previous seminary graduates, who requested deferment of a call, led to further discussion about how to handle requested deferments of seminary graduates for further study, special considerations, and personal situations. 

 

                        PD.06 Options for providing assistance to the president (Presidium:  PR.1)

                        PD.07 Time of Grace update

President Rutschow updated us on attempts of the SEW District Presidium to have a meeting with the leaders of the LCMS to clarify statements in the RSO agreement.  Scheduling such a meeting has proven to be difficult due to the full calendars of those who would be participants, but efforts are continuing.   A motion was made to request President Schroeder to be involved in further discussions.  Representatives of the LCMS indicated that they would like to have the presidents of each synod involved in the continuing discussions. 

                        PD.08 Update on MLHS choir matter

                        PD.09 Women professors at MLC

                        PD.10 More on Elton Stroh and other similar efforts

                        PD.11 Other items

                        PD.12 Pastoral questions

                                    a) general reports from districts

                                    b) issues in leaving a congregation

                                    c) communion practices

President Naumann will e-mail each of the DP’s with questions he has about unusual communion practices that he has noticed have been cropping up due to unusual circumstances, such as the use of  gluten free wafers, pastors communing themselves, use of something other than wine, etc.   He would appreciate comments from the members of the COP when they review his e-mail. 

 

                        PD.13 MLC candidates/urban ministry

President Rutschow spoke to us about the increasing need for urban teachers and the need for MLC to have a more formalized program for producing teachers who are capable of handling teaching in the inner city.   A week-end urban ministry experience is not enough to prepare a student for what he or she will encounter in an urban setting.  A motion was made and passed to recognize that assignments made to urban schools  may  be one-year calls at the discretion of the Assignment Committee in order to allow the candidate/calling body to determine whether or not they can handle the unique challenges of such a ministry, even though they may have indicated a willingness to teach in an urban setting.   

 

                        PD.14 Grace In Action

           

Presidium

            PR.1  Assistance for the president

            PR.2  District convention visits (final plans) 1

 

Doctrine Committee

            D.1 Translation issues

See PD 02.

            D.2 Biblical principles for divorce in light of internet pornography

See PD04.

 

Called Workers

            W.1  Status of retirement guidelines

            W.2  Principles and procedures for terminating called positions

            W.3  Every member visit plans (update on progress and plans for implementation)

            W.4  Vicar assignment process

            Since the number of vicars will be considerably smaller this year, each DP was asked to send in a priority     list of those congregations that are either requesting a vicar or would be a good place for a vicar to receive             his training.

 

Congregations

            C.1  Status of CCC efforts (E12, possible director position, etc.)

                VP Jim Huebner gave us an update on the efforts of the CCC program. 

            C.2  2017 synod-wide offering

            C.3  Email request re: Youth and Family Ministry from Tom Schneider 1

            The members of the COP acknowledged the importance of a director of Youth and Family Ministry as            well as the value of finding funding for continuing the Kid’s Connection videos.  Requests for such        additions to the budget, however, need to be considered along with other requests and prioritized.

We will continue flogging the sheep
until they express happiness with our leadership.

New Justification Book Printing. UOJ Conference and Emmanus Conference Warning

Luther versus the UOJ Pietists: Justification by Faith.

Last year we printed a large number of Luther versus the UOJ Pietists for the Emmaus Conference. All the books were given away and widely appreciated. Many laity did not know they were supposedly born forgiven, as the falseholds of UOJ declare without shame.

 The new version will have sections on Walther/Stephan (the Pietist connection) and Samuel Huber - the post-Concord heresy adopted by the Synodical Conference.

 There is a special from Lulu which is over on Friday, so the new version will be ready and printed in time for the conference. I am ordering 50 copies, which will cost only about $350 shipped. The new version will also be made available as a free PDF. Contributions toward this printing will be appreciated. As Jack Preus said about Lutheran book writing, "Don't quit your day job."

 ---

Jay Webber quotes the Pietist Rambach with approval,
Jay is also a Tom Hardt UOJ fan.

bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Calov, Gerhard, and Quenstedt: Are These Men Addre...":

Samuel Huber (1547‐1624) has been the UOJer's alibi man ever since 1870. The reason the terms OJ and UOJ are allegedly not found in the Orthodox theologians is Huber made the terms radioactive even though Luther and the Orthodox theologians all supposedly believed in UOJ. What a bunch of bunk!

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/01/wels-bourman-uoj.html

Schmidt states that old dogmaticians didn’t often speak of universal, objective justification because of Huber who taught “that God had not only justified all men already, but had also elected them to eternal life” (21).

---

Another UOJ Stormtrooper will show up to speak at the Ft. Wayne Conference -

Lutheran Confessions Symposium:
Justification in a Contemporary Context

Wednesday, January 18, 2012

1:30 p.m.	“The Doctrine of Justification after Google”	Dr. Lawrence R. Rast, Jr.	Sihler Auditorium
2:45 p.m.	“Evangelicals and Lutherans on Justification: Similarities and Differences”	Dr. Scott R. Murray	Sihler Auditorium
3:45 p.m.	“From Schleiermacher to Ritschl: An Overview of the Doctrine of Justification in the 19th Century”	Dr. Naomichi Masaki	Sihler Auditorium
5:00 p.m.	Choral Vespers		Kramer Chapel
6:15 p.m.	Dinner		Katherine Luther Dining Hall

Thursday, January 19, 2012

8:30 a.m.	“The New Perspective on Paul: Justification and Its Interpretation of Luther”	Dr. Erik M. Heen	Sihler Auditorium
10:00 a.m.	Chapel		Kramer Chapel
10:30 a.m.	Coffee Break		Student Commons
11:15 a.m.	“Justification: Jesus vs. Paul”	Dr. David P. Scaer	Sihler Auditorium
12:15 p.m.	Lunch		Katherine Luther Dining Hall
1:45 p.m.	“A Catholic Perspective on the Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification”	Dr. Christopher J. Malloy	Sihler Auditorium
2:45 p.m.	“Justification in the Finnish Luther School”	Dr. Gordon L. Isaac	Sihler Auditorium
3:45 p.m.	Panel Discussion: Similarities and Dissimilarities on Justification: Comparing Reformation Era and Contemporary Views		Sihler Auditorium
4:45 p.m.	Vespers and Organ Recital	Mr. Timothy Spelbring, Organist	Kramer Chapel
5:30 p.m.	Reception		Student Commons
6:30 p.m.	Banquet		Katherine Luther Dining Hall

Friday, January 20, 2012

9:00 a.m.	“The Eucharistic Prayer and Justification”	Prof. Roland Ziegler	Sihler Auditorium
10:00 a.m.	“Atonement and Justification in the Theology of Gerhard Forde: A Contemporary Context”	Dr. Jack D. Kilcrease	Sihler Au

The Last Gasp of a Religious Guru - Telling Us How To Make Money...And Save on Taxes

Jeske's school business is funded by taxes, no?
Does he pay taxes on his home?
If it is a parsonage, he would not.
If he owns it or is buying it, he would be obligated to pay taxes on it.
Wondering.

AC V has left a new comment on your post "Later Wesleyan and pietist movements: holiness and...":

Men of His Word

Register now to attend our 3rd annual conference on February 11, 2012 At the Oshkosh Convention Center. The theme for 2012 is “My Brother’s Keeper.” Check out the Conference 2012 tab for more details.

Session Title: Making Money God’s Way

Presenter: Mark Jeske

Do you want your business endeavors to be lucrative? Is it possible for them to be lucrative without the “filthy lucre” part? The Bible has some severe warnings about materialism and the idolatry of loving money, but is it inherently sinful to want to build your family’s wealth? Join Pastor Jeske for a walk through the Book of Proverbs to find God-pleasing ways to make money.

http://www.menofhisword.org/?page_id=113

Mark Jeske's big fear.
King day at St. Marcus.
Pietism turns to social activism in one generation.

---

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "The Last Gasp of a Religious Guru - Telling Us How...":

This is just more of the same formulaic Law pounding - DO! DO! DO!. Do it God's way and the blessings will flow! The Theology of Glory always uses the Bible as an instruction manual. Today's navel-gazing Evangelicalism is chocked full of Bible studies of this ilk. It is no wonder that the laity are so doctrinally ignorant.  

Later Wesleyan and pietist movements: holiness and temperance « Churchmouse Campanologist

Pietists do not like to discuss sound doctrine,
which they call "legalism."

Later Wesleyan and pietist movements: holiness and temperance « Churchmouse Campanologist:


Two of last week’s posts introduced pietism. The first explored its origins in Germany and the second examined its expansion in Methodism.

As we saw, pietism is based on the theology of Christian perfection, which comes from the perfection of Christ. Whilst all Christians are enjoined to sanctification — bearing increasingly holy attitudes and behaviours as a result of God’s grace and the Holy Spirit working through them — the danger is semi-Pelagianism. A list of proscribed activities — dancing, drinking and smoking — is not only a form of legalism but gives some believers in Arminian (‘free will’) denominations the idea that they can save themselves by obeying this checklist of behaviours.


'via Blog this'

---

AC V has left a new comment on your post "Later Wesleyan and pietist movements: holiness and...":

This email list is for all called workers in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, used with permission by WELS Communication Services.

A Workshop on Modern Artistry in Lutheran Worship

The Heart and Hands of David Workshop is designed to connect, encourage, and grow artists and musicians who use modern technology, art, and instrumentation in Lutheran Worship. The two day clinic will feature many sessions hosted by the members of Koine and other special guests. All are invited to enhance their gifts of service at the Heart and Hands of David Workshop. A special session will be held on Thursday evening, April 19, for Worship Leaders and Coordinators. The Workshop will be followed on Sunday afternoon, April 22, by a special event featuring Koine. More details coming soon.

Co-Hosted by Koine Music and Wisconsin Lutheran College.

SS Concordia Lured onto the Rocks by Christian News. ELCA Scavengers Hover. Icha-Chopper Tries To Help with Luther, Book of Concord. Thrivent Promotes Same Ol' Stuff

Christian News has lured the Concordia onto the rocks by trying to turn back the clock to the glorious Bronze Age of the Missouri Synod.


Thrivent is willing to help out, as long as all the Missouri congregations and entities market their sub-standard products.


The Icha-Chopper tries to help with Luther and the Book of Concord, but the Concordia's fuel is money, lots of it.


ELCA vultures pick up those who want women's ordination, selective diversity, and honest unionism.


---


bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Walther and Slavery - Another Inconvenient Fact":

Ironically, the cruise ship called Costa Concordia (Latin, or Spanish for Peaceful Coast) sailed only 300 yards from the coast and hit a huge rock that remained embedded in its hull even after it tipped over (i.e., listed--for Moby Dick fans). So much for a peaceful coast! It also reminded me of our Lutheran Concordia schools--rough sailing:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,809265,00.html  


***


GJ - Bruce, your comment inspired the Photoshop.

Walther and Slavery - Another Inconvenient Fact

Stephan's hat probably represents Herrnhut.

bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Complete Rough Draft of Chapter Four - Luther vers...":

About Walther and slavery, a topic that  some are studying. The Moravian mission sites that Herrnhut set up around the world, especially in the Caribbean, used slaves to make a profit and set up more Moravian mission sites.

With Stephan being a former Hernnhuter, he had no problem setting up shop in southern Missouri. Sparsely populated Perry Co. had 150 slaves, I recall reading, when the Saxons arrived there. The census information is online, but I think one can find that info on Perry Co history pages. By contrast, the Scandinavian immigrants to America were specifically warned not to settle in the South or anywhere there was slavery. Hence, Norwegians are found in northern tier states mainly.

***

GJ - Perry County also had mineral springs, so Stephan could continue treatment for his syphilis.

The Swedish Augustana Synod loathed slavery and voted Republican.

Here is Cascione's amen corner for everything Walther ever thought, including slavery.

More Walther and slavery.

---

Norman Teigen, Walther, Slavery:


Norman Teigen says:
September 30, 2011 at 6:02 pm
Thank you for posting this very interesting discussion. I had no technical problems.

I have always admired Walther but in the past year or so I have become quite troubled with Walther and the issue of slavery. I believe that the historical record shows that Walther was a southern partisan. I think that the evidence is pretty solid on this point.

There were lots of southern partisans, of course, and one shouldn’t be too hard on these followers of the cause that was lost. What is troubling to me is how Walther justified slavery on an argument based on his interpretation of Scripture, an argument which I feel does not stand so much on Lutheranism as it does on culture.

Walther’s argument on slavery closely follows the standard Southern defense of the institution. Walther’s argument that he only cares about Scripture and not about civil matters seems to cloud the picture rather than clarify.

Walther’s influence on other Lutherans was profound as the professors discuss. I am of the Norwegian branch of Lutheranism and my spiritual ancestors sought advice from Walther on the topic of slavery. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the Norwegians accepted Walther’s views on the subject rather than the better advice which they received from theologians in Oslo. The Waltherian view caused, I think the historical record will show, great sorrow within the Norwegian branch of the faith.

The theological battles of the Civil War, as Professor Mark Noll has written, were settled by the two eminent theologians Ulysses Simpson Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman. What has prevailed, I think, is that Walther’s explanation of the slavery question is the biblically based, solidly Lutheran explanation.

I think that that question is open to serious discussion and I would like to hear from the professors about this over-all issue of the slavery problem and Walther’s explanation. I won’t ask the professors to resolve our Norwegian interpretations of these historical events but would like a clarification of the slavery problem.

Incidentally, the Missouri Synod is still getting beaten up on slavery in recent days as a writer demonstrated earlier this summer in a local paper, The Metro Lutheran.

Thank you,

Norman Teigen
Hopkins MN

---

Norman Teigen has left a new comment on your post "Walther and Slavery - Another Inconvenient Fact":

Thanks, GJ, for posting this. This comes from the Concordia Seminary site. I was pleased in this exchange to have a seminary professor there acknowledge that Walther was wrong on slavery. This admission was encouraging to me because it was the first time that a reliable source had admitted that. I think that one can admire Walther's contribution to the faith and admit that he was once wrong about something.

My interest is in the ideas involved. I have not been able to further my Walther studies this Fall because I ran a campaign for election to the Hopkins MN City Council. I was unsuccessful - no Boss Teigen here, just Ten Percent Teigen-and now I can renew my studies.

I will concentrate on Walther's assertion that slavery is a civil matter and has nothing to do with spiritual matters. This is the essence of the Walther slavery problem and I am reasonably sure that my explanation will be on target.

I will submit it to you and your readers for review and comment. I had a blog once but it was officially shut down. Now the ban was been lifted but I am slow to get the blog going again.

---

bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Walther and Slavery - Another Inconvenient Fact":

Cascione wrote: "Walther shows that the American slave masters could hardly claim they were following the Bible."

Ha! That's a bunch of historical revisionism. Walther claimed that slavery was biblical, and that abolitionists were wrong when they condemned slavery. Walther clearly taught that only the abuses associated with slavery ought to be condemned, not slavery itself.

People argued against Walther's assertion by saying the abuses were intrinsically bound up with slavery itself, so even if Walther were right, he still ought to condemn slavery itself. Walther, however, chose to believe that abuses of slaves were not widespread, a total myth that abolitionists tried to dispel.

Besides that, almost as soon as Christianity took over the Roman empire, at least widespread slavery was a dead institution, so other Christians were 1300 years ahead of the caveman Walther on that point.

---

bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Walther and Slavery - Another Inconvenient Fact":

Norm Tiegen, If you really want to know why Walther was pro-slavery, it all comes down the inherent antinomianism of UOJ. Walther thought, "So what if there are widespread abuses inherent in slavery, since all that is forgiven." It's similar to how Stephan's abuses of his office were no no concern since they figured he was forgiven before his was born for those sins, and what's all-important is he's carrying out his duties as cleric:

In Forster's Zion of the Mississippi one can read:

...anything which promised to discredit him before the people or even to rid them of him was accepted without further scrutiny. Their attitude in Germany had been typified by Keyl's remark noted above, that he did not believe in the assertions against Stephan to be true, but that if they were, he was certain Stephan had repented, and all was well (pp. 394-5).

---

LPC has left a new comment on your post "Walther and Slavery - Another Inconvenient Fact":

Walther's theological contribution? The promotion of quasi universalism?
I began being cynical of Walther when I read his essays on Lutheranism. Like a typical cult leader he believed his own propaganda. It is high time that he gets put on the scale and out of the pedestal. It is time to see how he weighs.

LPC

***

GJ - Walther created many needless splits by making his own opinions the ruling norm for all Lutherans. He won in this sense - at first the General Council taught justification by faith and the Means of Grace. Now ELCA is just as UOJ as the Olde Synodical Conference.

The Lutheran Reformers would have laughed at a bachelor's degree from Leipzig qualifying Walther to judge and condemn everyone else. Herrnhut cell groupies are not exactly the Concordists brought back to life, even if the terminology was borrowed for every LCMS institution.

Seminarian Pursues Heavy Metal and Heavenly Message - Clayton-Richmond Heights, MO Patch. Megadeath!

Seminarian Pursues Heavy Metal and Heavenly Message - Clayton-Richmond Heights, MO Patch:


*Editor's note: An earlier version of this article incorrectly indicated Dave Ellefson's status with the band Megadeth. He continues to play bass with the band. This article has been updated to reflect that fact.

Concordia Seminary in Clayton welcomed students back to campus for the fall quarter last week, including many who worked for years in a profession before deciding to pursue a life of full-time church work. And while Dave Ellefson is one them, his first career is* a bit unconventional—he plays* bass in the heavy-metal band Megadeth.

Now, he's studying to be a Lutheran pastor.

Ellefson is enrolled in the school’s Specific Ministry Program (SMP). As part of Concordia’s distance learning program, Ellefson will work with a local mentor pastor, view online video lectures and take several intensive weeklong sessions at Concordia in Clayton.

In an interview with Jenny Charlesworth of AOL’s heavy-metal website Noisecreep, Ellefson described his decision to enroll in the Clayton-based seminary.

“I actually just got accepted to go into a seminary program within the Lutheran Church; they bring up people within the congregation, it's a graduate level course," Ellefson told Noisecreep. "I'm fairly well steeped in the world, and having been clean for several years, that's kind of a natural progression for my walk.”

Ellefson grew up in a Christian household. Both of his parents were active in the church. His mother’s Wurlitzer organ was the first musical instrument he spent time with. As a teenager, he traded in the church organ to spend hours with a bass guitar in his hand.

Now, Ellefson will spend his time in the pulpit.

Megadeth often is regarded as a pioneer in American heavy metal. The band formed in 1983 and, apart from a few inactive years, continues to play concerts. The band's front man, Dave Mustaine, also has returned to the Christian faith.

About this column: A weekly column dedicated to religion news in Clayton and Richmond Heights. The column name is used courtesy of Royal Oak (MI) Patch editor Judy Davids and contributor Lynne Cobb.


'via Blog this'

Gay Dean To Sue

Dr Jeffrey John at St Albans Abbey

'I'll sue Church of England if it bars me from being bishop,' says The Very Rev Jeffrey John, Dean of St Albans | Mail Online: "A controversial gay dean has threatened to take the Church of  England to court after he was blocked from becoming a bishop. The Very Rev Jeffrey John, Dean of St Albans, has instructed an eminent employment lawyer to complain to Church officials after being rejected for the role of Bishop of Southwark. Sources say the dean, one of the most contentious figures in the Church, believes he could sue officials under the Equality Act 2010, which bans discrimination on the grounds of sexuality. Such a case could create a damaging new rift within the CoE." 'via Blog this'

The Second Sunday after the Epiphany. John 2:1ff - Water into Wine

The Second Sunday after the Epiphany, 2012

Pastor Gregory L. Jackson

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bethany-lutheran-worship

Bethany Lutheran Church, 10 AM Central Time

The Hymn #39     Praise to the Lord                  3.1

The Confession of Sins
The Absolution
The Introit p. 16
The Gloria Patri
The Kyrie p. 17
The Gloria in Excelsis
The Salutation and Collect p. 19
The Epistle and Gradual       

The Gospel              

Glory be to Thee, O Lord!
Praise be to Thee, O Christ!
The Nicene Creed p. 22
The Sermon Hymn # 370            My Hope Is Built            3.11

God’s Word Transforms

The Hymn #294   O Word of God Incarnate            3.31

The Preface p. 24
The Sanctus p. 26
The Lord's Prayer p. 27
The Words of Institution
The Agnus Dei p. 28
The Nunc Dimittis p. 29
The Benediction p. 31
The Hymn #309   O Jesus, Blessed Lord            3.70

KJV Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. 9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. 10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; 11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; 12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; 13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. 15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. 16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

KJV John 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. 3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. 5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. 6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. 7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. 9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. 11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Second Sunday After Epiphany

Lord God, heavenly Father, we thank Thee, that of Thy grace Thou hast instituted holy matrimony, in which Thou keepest us from unchastity, and other offenses: We beseech Thee to send Thy blessing upon every husband and wife, that they may not provoke each other to anger and strife, but live peaceably together in love and godliness, receive Thy gracious help in all temptations, and rear their children in accordance with Thy will; grant unto us all to walk before Thee, in purity and holiness, to put all our trust in Thee, and lead such lives on earth, that in the world to come we may have everlasting life, through the same, Thy beloved Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with Thee and the Holy Ghost, one true God, world without end. Amen.

God’s Word Transforms

This is the first of miracles performed by Jesus in His public ministry. Every detail is instructive, not only for the basic lesson but also for the way this connects to everything else in the Word of God.

KJV John 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

The presence of Jesus’ mother suggests that she was in charge of the wedding, the parents no longer living. In all societies, the parents host the wedding, yet Mary is the one in charge, the one worried about the lack of wine.

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

The presence of Jesus and His disciples at the wedding is instructive. Jesus blessed marriage by being there, a significant lesson by itself for this marriage-hating era.

People think that living together is bliss, but marriage is a burden. They can buy a home and furniture together, have children out of wedlock, and still dither about marriage, because it is troublesome.

This shows a complete lack of understanding of the Word, because God instituted marriage, and God commands what is good for us. An unbeliever says marriage is a burden and full of woe. A believer says, “God blesses marriage, even in the midst of trouble.”

This verse means literally that Jesus was invited (called) so His presence means He chose to be there rather than not. The presence of His disciples also means that He had many witnesses who could later put together their eye-witness experiences with the revelation of the Holy Spirit in their preaching and in the Gospels.

This lesson is a corrective because an anti-marriage, anti-woman attitude was already present and came into the Christian Church as monasticism. Within a few centuries the visible church made it a sin for the clergy to marry, even though Peter and the disciples were married. Paul was probably a widower. The classic Jewish attitude was that every person should be married because marriage was blessed by God through the Word.

3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

The lack of parents suggests that the bride and groom had little money. They ran out of wine, which was a crisis. The normal beverage was wine, so this was more than a bother. Mary’s substitute role comes into play because she took it upon herself to fix the problem. She knew Jesus could change the situation.

This is also a good prayer in that Mary did not tell Jesus what to do, unlike the modern church entertainers of today. She told Him what the problem was. Mostly we think we will be happy if we have our plans fulfilled, so it is tempting to tell God exactly what we need and when we need it.

The result of faithful prayer is that we see how God answers problems in His own way, since He is a good manager with many years of experience. We often see that He was already answering our plea before we thought to ask, as the prophets promised and Paul affirmed.

4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

This verse teaches us that Jesus addressed His mother twice in the Gospel of John. Both times He called her “woman” rather than “mother.” Some translators soften this with “dear woman” and so forth. His address is rather abrupt, and shows us, just as it does at the cross, that Jesus is her Lord. The Roman Catholics turn this around and have Mary bossing Jesus as His mother – she commands as a mother! That is very sad and sick, because it diminishes Jesus and creates a caricature of Mary as lord over the Savior. The erroneous attempt to honor Mary dishonors the Word, which teaches otherwise.

This is worth noting because John’s Gospel may have been written down last. He was associated with Ephesus and became the surrogate son of Mary, taking care of her needs. There could have been a Mary cult developing, because it certainly broke out later. This addresses the problem early on, because the Holy Spirit teaches us before we even need to know the lesson taught.

Jesus abrupt address is a paradox, a seeming contradiction. He seems to resist doing anything but immediately addresses the problem. Lenski interprets the verse as “This is my role and not yours,” which is as good as anything else proposed. His hour is the crucifixion and resurrection, so His statement can be seen as declaring His readiness. The steps He must take are laid out in the Old Testament and ordered by God the Father. And yet his is not the pagan concept of Fate. Someone asks and God responds.

This is true today. Total passivity makes people accept slavery. The Protestant Reformation freed people from the slavery of the mind, as if each person had a fated role – very nice for the people on top. God set people free through a Medieval monk who pledged himself to live in a stone cell and obey his lord and master, the pope. But the Word taught him to teach the truth, and that set Europe free from the tyranny of the pope and his brutal reign.

We cannot tell God how and when to act, but we can trust in Him as our loving and gracious Father, who will listen to our needs because of His only-begotten Son.

5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

Mary did not know how Jesus could fix the problem, but she trusted Him to do it. In an era when there is so little faith, and people brag about forgiveness without faith, Mary’s response is an example for everyone.

This also shows very clearly that Mary was in charge of the wedding. As the substitute mother, she wanted the ceremony to go well. It reminds me of a traditional Indian Christian wedding we attended. The bride’s mother was and is the nicest person on earth, full of smiles and humor. During the wedding I watched her supervising the details, and her look reminded me of an eagle ready to swoop down on any missed detail.

Mary entered the picture this way. God promised her the Savior’s birth, without normal conception. This was accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the Word – the Virgin Birth. God became man, and she knew that better than most. Therefore, how could there be a problem with the Messiah present?

It is a long-standing tradition in secular politics that a request to a ruler, even a president, must be answered. That was featured in the fictional Winds of War TV series when the young hero spoke up and asked the president, FDR, to address a problem. The president had no choice but to get involved. But that was more of an example of opportunism while Mary is showing trust in Jesus.

6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. 7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water.

The miracle is well known to everyone even though it is only found in John’s Gospel. The details teach us about how Jesus revealed Himself as the Messiah and began to build the disciples’ faith in the Word of God. The huge pots held 60 to 100 gallons of liquid. They were empty, so the servants knew that they were drawing water from the well and pouring the water into the jars. At that point only Jesus and the servants knew what was happening.

8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. 9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The servants knew they put pure water into the jars, but the steward of the feast did not. He was in charge of the food and wine, so he needed to check on the new supply. Wine was often spoiled by age, turning into vinegar, so some merchants added lead to hide the change. (Antifreeze has been used in recent times – both are a bad, bad idea.)

The response of the steward is funny in an ironic way. He complains that the best wine should have been served first, when it would have been appreciated more. But he was a bit angry that the best was saved for last. Thus the water turned into wine is not only a unique miracle but one with special marks – abundance (up to 600 gallons) and quality.

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

This was a miracle that could not have been ignored. Many guests were present. The steward of the feast and the servants experienced it. The guests and disciples were eye-witnesses. One does not run out of wine and have 600 gallons without people asking, discussing, and marveling about it. And who could keep such a thing silent?

This miracle alone explains why Jesus attracted such crowds, some out of perverse desire for another spectable, but others because they sensed and believed He was the Messiah long promised.

Religious literature not included in the Old Testament promised that the Messiah would bring an era with vines having a thousand clusters, each cluster having a thousand grapes, and each grape having a thousand measures of wine. In other words, there was an expectation of abundance. God does provide an abundance, especially of grace, but also enough for us to live and prosper and share.

This was the beginning of Jesus’ miracles, and the disciples believed on Him.

KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

What is sin? The Holy Spirit convicts us of not trusting in Him. That is the foundational sin.

The answer to that sin is created by the Gospel. The Spirit works faith in our hearts and strengthens that faith.

We see in the example of the disciples that they believed in Him yet faltered. We are fallible and weak, too. So the Word of God directs us to trust in Him. Abiding in Word means we will bear fruit (John 15). He will prune us to make us more fruitful.

The Word of God transforms.

How can bread and wine be the Body and Blood of Christ?

If the Word can turn water into wine, then the Real Presence is simply another example of the Word transforming. Strangely, people create some kind of barrier between on miracle and the other.

And they look for miracles on Sunday (getting up from a wheelchair) while denying the miracle clearly taught – This is My Body, give for you for the forgiveness of sin.

The Word of God creates faith in Christ, which transforms everything in this life. Those who do not believe only see difficulties and answer them with money. They scoff at those who lack their answers. As one man said, “I am already living in paradise. I don’t need faith.”

One woman told me, “I don’t want children. They are work and cost money. I want to take care of me.” I thought, “They are lucky not to have you as a mother.”

Mothers know that they look fondly at the times they did the most menial tasks for their children. Fathers remember buttoning buttons and wondering, “When will he do this for himself?” Only later the same individual is running vast networks and helping poor dad with the home computer.

Faith is a gift from God, created by the Gospel, the work of the Holy Spirit. As Luther said, “No man is so good that he can deserve forgiveness, but no sin is so evil that it cannot be forgiven by God.”

An abundance of the Gospel will always mean an abundance of forgiveness and the fruits of the Spirit. That is how the Word of God transforms, turning ordinary water into extraordinary wine.

For the Choir

The Myth	The Truth
Martin Stephan was an orthodox Lutheran	He was a Pietist who managed cell groups.
Walther was an orthodox Lutheran	Walther, a Pietist, joined Stephan’s cell groups. They were all Pietists.
Nothing was wrong with kidnapping children.	Walther had to run from police warrants, and Mrs. Buenger was imprisoned.
No one knew Stephan was an adulterer.	Stephan was under house arrest just before leaving for America. Everyone knew.
Stephan was a false teacher.	All the clergy, including Walther, pledged their loyalty and obedience to the bishop.
Loeber and Walther were shocked to find out Stephan was an adulterer.	Stephan left his ailing wife and  children in Dresden, brought his mistress to America.
Stephan left the Society in shambles.	Robbing Stephan of his land, gold, library, and personal effects bailed them out.
Stephan had eczema and other mysterious symptoms.	Stephan was a syphilitic, whose symptoms were treated in Europe. The disease broke out anew in America. The latency period was over.
The chalice belonged to the Society.	The chalice was a personal gift to Stephan.
The noble Walther rescued the Society with his brave, Biblical, Lutheran approach.	Walther took advantage of the situation which he helped create, and benefited from the crisis.
Concordia Historical Institute	LCMS Myth Machine – even though they possess the actual documentation.

Stop for the Satire, Stay for the Doctrinal Quotations

Parlow, Jeske, Kelm, and Patterson
entertain without edifying.

LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "1580 Has Upgraded His Identity": 


You guys are preaching to the choir for the most part because it is anti-UOJers that partake here on a daily or weekly basis I would surmise. I do pray however that there are misguided laymen (and even clergy) that do come here not for the satire, but for the solid confessional posting by Dr. Jackson and his commenting audience. And I pray that they can take it to heart. I was one of the misguided at one time.

I truly believe that the ambiguity of UOJ afforded the WELS the excuse to excommunicate us since we did have quite a long laundry list of practices that were leading Holy Word (and Christ the Rock for that matter) away from its sworn oath to uphold teachings in the Book of Concord (and ultimately Scripture). All in the name of church growth. Ha!


I can not say for sure because I do not know their hearts, but it seems to me there are those who are leading Lutherans away from pure teachings to Universalism. The rest are paralyzed by fear (or are ambivalent) and will paint themselves into a corner eventually by setting precedents (or going along with them) as was the case with us.


We are in the end times. Lord, come quickly, thy will be done.

You think I am a Tele-Tubbie?

***

GJ - SP Schroeder immediately assured his sect that Joel Hochmuth was forgiven his many felonies, but nothing was done about the recent excommunications for questioning Church and Changers. The only sin is questioning Holy Mother Immaculate Synod or its infallible priesthood.