A WELS member sent me the link to this video, which makes the previous one (the statue fight) look positively confessional in comparison.
Familiar names like Huebner and Krause star in this travesty, which includes prissy lip-synching and crotch grabbing. I thought Michael Jackson was sick when he felt compelled to do the same, but this is worse and comes from the WELS "College of Ministry."
Read the comments on the video and notice the great impression made on the audience.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Mary Lou College's Own Flock of Seagulls":
I open myself up all sorts of criticism but whatever, blast away.
Breathe in slowly...exhale... Okay,that video doesn't threaten Orthodoxy, it doesn't promote Enthusiasm, it doesn't encourage any kind immoral behavior, it isn't the mark of the beast, and just because some Youtube viewers thought it was blazing a path of homoeroticism in pop art doesn't mean that those young men intended to be nasty.
They were just having fun and it is okay to leave it at that. (They paid for their fun too, imagine how many times they had to listen to that song..whew)
You've got great perspectives Jackson, but when you get bent out of shape about something stupid you shoot your credibility. I'll just bet that there are more important things for theologians to be worrying about--fine, big deal. The video was fairly frooty--But leave the criticism to gossipy old women.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Mary Lou College's Own Flock of Seagulls":
I would expect and maybe look over this kind of thing if it were coming from Mankato State. It comes, however, from the synod college of ministry. Those students are disappointing and foolish. Disappointing because more should be expected of them as future members of the public ministry. They should also expect more of themselves. Foolish because they must know that this sort of thing has a way of popping up and lingering. I should think discipline is in order, specifically for actions unbecoming to the college and the ministry. Yes,kids will be kids as they say, but, again, this video did not come from Mankato State. It came from the synod college of the public ministry. Should we not demand better of our future public workers? Shame on them and MLC if they fail to discipline this group of fools.
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GJ - One of the hallmarks of Pietism is a constant effort to prove, "We are not Pietists!" This reaction is common throughout the WELS education system. It used to be that leaders could say, "That never happened." But if the students want to videotape their unfunny routine and post it on You Tube, they should expect a response.
I mentioned before that some MLC students, renting a house, were so obnoxious, that a disabled woman did not like going by the place. I posted her information on my doctrinal bulletin (Ur-Ichabod) and the house was cleaned up in 24 hours.
47 comments:
This is how they spend their time instead of learning to spell, write, and think -- basic skills necessary to do the work of the Lord.
The decadent WELS.
I open myself up all sorts of criticism but whatever, blast away.
Breathe in slowly...exhale... Okay,that video doesn't threaten Orthodoxy, it doesn't promote Enthusiasm, it doesn't encourage any kind immoral behavior, it isn't the mark of the beast, and just because some Youtube viewers thought it was blazing a path of homoeroticism in pop art doesn't mean that those young men intended to be nasty.
They were just having fun and it is okay to leave it at that. (They paid for their fun too, imagine how many times they had to listen to that song..whew)
You've got great perspectives Jackson, but when you get bent out of shape about something stupid you shoot your credibility. I'll just bet that there are more important things for theologians to be worrying about--fine, big deal. The video was fairly frooty--But leave the criticism to gossipy old women.
Duffer teachers and pastors of tomorrow. These students do not have time and money to waste with such "fun." I don't want them passing their values onto my children.
I would expect and maybe look over this kind of thing if it were coming from Mankato State. It comes, however, from the synod college of ministry. Those students are disappointing and foolish. Disappointing because more should be expected of them as future members of the public ministry. They should also expect more of themselves. Foolish because they must know that this sort of thing has a way of popping up and lingering. I should think discipline is in order, specifically for actions unbecomin to the college and the ministry. Yes,kids will be kids as they say, but, again, this video did not come from Mankato State. It came from the synod college of the public ministry. Should we not demand better of our future public workers? Shame on them and MLC if they fail to discpline this group of fools.
Actually, most behavior in prep (boarding high schools) and college follows this trend.
Many, in particular pastor and teacher kids, feel it is their last chance to really let off some steam before they become pastors and teachers themselves.
Usually the squares and straight arrows come from the ranks of the lay people.
The wild ones usually come from the families of pastors and teachers, or have pastors and teachers within their close family (uncles, cousins, etc...) No offense to the "good" pastor kids (PKs) or teacher kids (TKs) out there, but your kind were usually the real hell-raisers.
I remember one guy (had close family member as a called worker) in prep who always loved telling racial jokes. I once asked him what would happen if he got assigned to a WELS church that had a lot of African Americans (yes, believe it or not there actually is such a thing as blacks in WELS churches).
He got a real pious look on his face and said something like "I would treat them like any other child of God" and then went back to telling another N-joke.
As an aside, there always seems to be a bit of homo-eroticism whenever you have any hazing type situation (very common back in my day at MLS). I think Dr. Jackson has mentioned before the issue of simulating a particular sex act with the statue of the "Sprinter on his mark" at old Northwestern College and Prep. I did not attend that prep school, but it was common knowledge for those going on to Northwestern College that as a NWC frosh (I don't think they were given the title ZEX like at MLS) that might be one act they would be ordered to perform.
Fun Times.....NOT !!!!!
I can honestly say I never wanted to relive my prep school years...
Come on now. It was a dorm video for homecoming and is a copy cat of another youtube sensation.
Decadent? it was a week of shooting and simple video editing by guys who are also 'A' students.
I agree with the above poster. Dr. Jackson, you have some great posts on here but getting bent out of shape over a dorm video (2nd time in two years?) is going overboard.
Interesting how some people are trying to downplay this. Interesting and sad. Let us be reminded of two facts:
First, I think Philippians 1:27 speaks to this issue: "Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ." Are these future workers in the public ministry conducting themselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ?
Second, does not the seminary list as its first entry requirement an unimpeachable Christian character? I am not speaking to the character of these students, but might posting such foolish behavior on youtube (which by the way might never go away) lead some (say in a parish) to do so?
Like it or not, this video will lead some to call the character of these students into question. If not character, then at least their judgment will be questioned. Credibility and reputation are easily lost and much more difficult to regain. Remember that before you plaster silly images of yourself all over the internet. Not everyone thinks it is cute or harmless.
I'm not so sure being an "A" student at MLC comes with a terrible great lot of difficulty. If these guys are the cream of the crop, boy are we in trouble!
Howdy professor,
I don't think the video is a big deal at all. It certainly isn't an instance of WELSians claiming "we're not pietists". It does, however, display a basic lack of class. It's one thing to say "Oh gee, what if we did x..." and another thing to actually go and do it. But adults with the minds of children are being created everywhere these days.
But no, it's not a theological, moral or religious issue. The only evidence of pietism I see is in the comments above:
>>"These students do not have time and money to waste with such "fun." I" (why do you presume what they do for fun is your business? Your "fun" is holier than their's? You sound like a Quaker!)
>>"...spell, write, and think -- basic skills necessary to do the work of the Lord." (This comment shows a complete disregard for the Doctrine of Vocation. It's subtle New Monasticism---pietism for sure...and maybe philosophically dualistic)
>>"...Disappointing because more should be expected of them as future members of the public ministry..." (again, ignorant of the Doctrine of Vocation. Expecting a Pastor to be unencumbered by moral problems is Scriptural, while expecting them to be holy for you is not.)
The pietistic individuals above more than likely watch CSI Miami or Law and Order or some other of the popular shows on TV where brutal crimes are depicted and morally bankrupt individuals are the heros. Even ads are often more corrupt morally than the video those kids did. I'm not telling you it's a sin to watch TV but take my point. Watch who you call a fool.
And to the "public ministry" thing. The comments quoted above have this warped attitude that the video was "bad" because the students are at a public ministry school. This is ludicrous. So many people in the WELS think that Pastors and teachers, because of their vocational choice, are "serving the Lord" full time. Wrong. God regards whatever we do (vocationally) as good works because of the new creatures we've become through Christ. In the eyes of God, a professional dog walker is the spiritual equal of a pastor. Furthermore, our works to not become "better" the closer (substantively or spatially) they are to the church.
Most people's understanding of Sanctification is certain to be realigned with Scripture if they read Gustav Wingren's book "Luther on Vocation". Quite good!
http://www.amazon.com/Luther-Vocation-Gustaf-Wingren/dp/1592445616
Well, if I were an official at MLC, I probably wouldn't destroy the future pastoral careers of these young men. However, I would have the Dean give them all a good talking to about the fact that some undergrad hijinks are OK, but that such effeminate activity tends to bring discredit to a religious school and its students. Men who want to be pastors or religious schooltechers should never do anything that might call into question their sexual orientation. Maybe they ought to spend a few saturdays assisting the janitorial staff on campus as a kind of mild punishment.
Doctrine of Vocation is a specious argument.
Right on, DK.
It starts at MLC where anything goes.
"Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But among you there must not be even a hint of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person - such a man is an idolator - has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ or of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on the disobedient. Therefore, do not be partners with them. For once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light; for the light consists in all goodness, righteousness, and truth; and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the shameful deeds or darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful to even mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: 'Wake up sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.' Be very careful how you live - not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Do not get drunk, which leads to debauchery. Instead be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." (Ephesians 5:1-21)
Every sinner sins - constantly; what else does the sinful nature produce in every one of us but its damning fruits, whether in ways easily noticed or unnoticed. The sinner cannot excuse, explain away, or pay for one's own sin. Repent, cries the Spirit. By God's grace alone, the Savior from sin is announced to those who don't deserve His mercy. The Spirit creates / restores faith in the repentant sinner, using the Means of Grace. My baptism means that my old adam is to be drowned by daily contrition and repentance and die; it means that day by day the new man is to arise, to live in the presence of God in rightousness and purity, now and forever.
Have mercy on us, sinners, Lord. Our unworthiness cries out against us. Be merciful, Lord, on these young people who have sinned; expose their sin, and do so daily; comfort every contrite sinner with the Good News of forgivness in Christ; work in the faithful, the fruits of repentance. Do this for us all, gracious Lord.
"Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each others burden, and in this way you will fulfill the Law of Christ. If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Each one should test his own actions. then he can take pride in himself without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load." (Galatians 6:1-5).
Titus 1: 5c "........ and ordain elders ... IF ANY BE BLAMELESS, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7 For a bishop MUST BE BLAMELESS AS THE STEWARD OF GOD; NOT SELF WILLED, not soon angry, NOT GIVEN TO WINE, no striker, not given to filthy lucre. 8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, SOBER, JUST, HOLY, TEMPERATE; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince he gainsayers. (10m FOR THERE ARE MANY UNRULY and VAIN TALKERS and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision. " 11 Whose mouths must be stopped.....etc. etc.
Wherefore REBUKE THEM SHARPLY, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth...16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
I think the proper punishment for these lasses would be for each to visit a dozen congregations during budget discussions this fall, show the video to the assembled voters, and close by asking for an doubling in gifts to MLC for all the good and valuable work being done there.
Let them wilt under the glare of the saints that have paid for that school.
Meanwhile the DPs fiddle.
At least they graduated from basket weaving at MLC.
I wondered how long it would take you to notice this video and comment, Pr. Jackson. I'm disappointed in your reaction, although it was what I expected from you.
I could say all kinds of things about college students in general, religious colleges in general, or just young adults in general, but I will settle with this: What did you do for fun in college? Was it something that you were always proud of later?
Might this video have been in poor taste? Maybe. Would it have been better to never have posted it on Youtube? Maybe. Let these young men have their fun. Their antics could certainly have been far worse. I'm sure they were punished appropriately.
Nice job recognizing some of the students too - both the Huebner and the Krause are among the top of their class and widely recognized as model students and leaders.
I also like how you didn't bother to post DK's comments - had to go in here to find them.
- An irritated MLC graduate, sick of seeing his school dragged through the dirt.
Oh please.
Again I have to register my disbelief that someone would want to destroy someone's future over that video!
Schmidt, you didn't really display pietism like the other commentors; Is your main concern about the Synod's reputation? Do you really think that the video gives the impression that any of those guys dig dudes? If I know anything about silly college girls those guys' stock just went up. They gunna have easier time with the ladies, if ya smell me on that.
As far as discrediting the school...(cough) uh, all it takes is for someone to meet an MLC grad. The academic focus is about as diverse as the House of Habsburg's DNA; the scholarly authenticity is a about as noble as a McDonald's Happy Meal.
Hey GJ,
I think you're a little jealous because these guys crammed more genuinely funny moments into nine minutes of video than you have in all of your countless "satirical" posts!
What have you been smoking, DK?
So...acting is now a sin? Or is it entertaining? Dancing?
Good thing they weren't playing cards or drinking beer in this video!
What is truly great is all the random assumptions being made about character, work ethic, doctrinal soundness, etc.
I think the lot of you could be cast in the next "grumpy old men" movie. As someone else said, go back to watching the things you find entertaining or funny I'm sure it is more God pleasing because it tickles your sense of humor.
I see a bunch of men making fun of a Miley Cyrus song. I'm also guessing their video is better than her original.
DK,
I surely do not want to see these young men have their futures destroyed. However, they have put their reputations in jeopardy by stupidly posting something like this for all the world to see on youtube. I think they need to be strongly admonished by MLC leadership for their own good. I think they should do whatever they can to get this thing off the internet, though it may be too late for that.
I also do not think it is pietism to expect more of those in public ministry. I said more, not perfection. Paul, as several comments have noted, expected much more of those in public ministry. Obviously the seminary expects more when it demands "unimpeachable Christian character" as a qualification for admission.
If nothing else, perhaps this should stand as a lesson for students in general: if you post it, people will find it. If you post it, you will likely lose control of it. So, don't post it if there is any reason to think it will call your character into question.
Wholesome Christian Piety is hard enough to find among Lutherans. One would have hoped that it would at least be modeled by the fine Christians who are educating our future called-workers and absorbed by them. Or do our College professors mock public propriety, as well? Perhaps they had a good sophomoric laugh over this incident? Perhaps also over public drunkenness, and other forms of impropriety? We're all sinners (giggle giggle). We Christians never do the right thing (tee hee hee). For example, so-and-so did XYX (hahaha), and that was so bad (hohoho).
In chapter one of his epistle, James warns us of duplicity of mind (double-mindedness), and in chapter three applies it to the things we say and do: Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be... Who is the wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show out of a good conversation [or, "way of life"], his works with meekness of wisdom. (3:10,13). Notice in these last words, what we do is equated to what we say. Suggestive speech and actions represent a shameful duplicitousness.
In addition, Paul includes "foolish talking" and "coarse jesting" among fornication, impurity, and greed, as immoral and improper for the Christian even to name, much less suggest or emulate: But fornication, and all uncleanness, [or, "impurity"] or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not convenient [or, "proper"]: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolator, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Eph. 5:3-6). Notice that in these words, Paul names the "coarse jester" with the "whoremonger" as among those from whom God's inheritance is withheld. But Paul goes on in this reference to say, Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore, do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of the light (v7-8).
These references may come as a shock to Lutheran readers. We don't hear about such things very often as our pastors seem to have long-ago given up the preachment of Law, preferring instead to only preach about the Law, and to immediately apologize for it by slathering us with further talk about the Gospel. Nevertheless, the Scriptures could not be more clear. The sort of activity represented in this video, by Christians, in the name of a Christian institution, is no trivial matter. It may have been issued in the name of humorous entertainment, but it is not funny. It is a blight upon the name of Christ, and upon those who share fellowship with the Christians who have done so. It is bald and public sin.
Gentlemen of this video, I rebuke you. I urge you to repent of your sin, and retract this video.
Freddy Finkelstein
Not so much doctrine of the ministry DK, but what about the doctrine of offense? Putting the best construction on everything, I can't conclude that the young men in the video are homosexuals. However, some who are either new to the faith or whose faith is weak might be caused to stumble by this stuff. Some poor soul who is struggling against homosexual temptations might see this video and conclude that homosexualism is OK because at the colleges of the most conservative Lutheran body in America, the students swan around like the denizens of Greenwich Village and Castro Street. These young fellows just need a little serious guidance.
just tobacco
WELS hurts itself by tolerating these goofballs. I do not care if they are the sons of pastors and teachers. It just makes the video all the more reprehensible.
I take your point Ken; I guess I wasn't thinking about recent converts or those struggling with particular sins. I suppose those tempted by homosexuality are the ones who are far more likely to see the video as problematic.
But if these guys are going to be blasted by the 'Confessional' readers of this blog I would at least like to know (from those who call the video "sin") what you watch on TV. (Be honest!) What music do listen to? Do you watch the NFL or NBA where scantily clad cheer leaders are the norm? Do you listen to NPR?
And as long as your being so stringent, what consumer goods do you purchase? I hope you don't shop at Walmart, who without the help of the anti-Christian government couldn't provide Americans with cheap goods. I hope you don't eat Wheaties--you might have indirectly supported Planned Parenthood. Check out this link:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=75093
Hope you don't shop at any of these companies because you'd be supporting the homosexualization of the U.S.
Maybe you didn't know about how your money supports terrible things, but now you do. Are you going do something about it? If you don't, you're subject to the same criticism you slather on the MLC kids.
Are you gonna keep throwing stones at the prostitute?
I suppose one could chalk it up to "college humor" and call it quits. But there is an element of mean-spirited sarcasm and deprecation be it the older NWC or current MLC variety. If one has ever been on the receiving end or seen someone on the receiving end of the supposedly "just done in jest" remarks, one can but cringe at the snarky jokes, skits, etc. One would hope most have moved beyond that. It's pathetic when it doesn't happen. The pattern, once engrained, rears its ugly head again and again. In WELSdom, it's so difficult to tackle an issue objectively without someone interjecting a college-era assessment of so and so. Those off-hand remarks hijack the issue-at-hand and turn it into character defamation. The esoteric nature of the humor is pretty much lost on those outside the circle. Not that anybody really cares though. The circle is limited to start with. Grow up and leave the schoolboy ways behind.
It's interesting to see how people try to defend this behaviour. The arguments tend to fall into these basic categories:
1) It's not that bad. There are a lot of worse things than this harmless little video.
2) These are "good guys" — model students and leaders.
3) You just don't think it's funny because you're old/pietistic/a fuddy-duddy.
4) How dare you criticize these young men! Look at your own behaviour.
I would repudiate these arguments were they, in fact, true arguments. However, any student of formal logic would recognise these fallacies rather easily.
So correct JR. They fail as false premises, in this case distracting excuses and name calling. Nothing can be deduced from them -- at least not logically.
He who has no sin may be the one to cast the first stone...
If this video is "homo-erotic', then I guess we'll just have to ban all sports.
What Brian K and a few others have said on this thread, leaves me quite cold.... TITUS 1: 10a for there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers....lla Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake...
TITUS 1: 15 Unto the pure all things are pure; but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable and unto every good work reprobate.
Soon after in TITUS 2, Titus is exhorted by the Apostle to exhort the young men to be sober minded (Verse 6...and such young men as he spoke of here to Titus, were ordinary yuong men; and NOT those he spoke of beforehand (TITUS 1:6-11) Those he formerly had spoken of to Titus, were men who had the qualitities listed that qualified them for consideration for ordaining to the divinely instituted Public Office of The Ministry !
The Law needs be laid down hard to these so-called Seminary students "in training for The Ministry". . If not, then however shall such foolish young men be moved to repent of this dreadfully inappropriate, and totally UNamusing incident ?
It is neither faithful, nor loving, nor Bibicaly Christian, let alone Lutheran, to so grossly overlook and make excuses of one kind or another, as has been done.
All such speakers are the chief cause behind all doctrinal lowering of standards, at Sem, in the Synod, and in the congregations...
If such a low level of Seminary student "sport" is condoned,there is no hope at all for the WELS.
As Freddy Finkelstein said, this was bald and public sin against Christ, and against all in fellowship with WELS synod.
Shame upon shame be upon those whose words have sought to trivialize such despicable conduct.
KJV PROVERBS 15: 31 The ear that heareth the reproof of life
abideth among the wise. 32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding. 33The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
Stop talking about them and start talking to them.
Freddy F wrote:
"Wholesome Christian Piety is hard enough to find among Lutherans. One would have hoped that it would at least be modeled by the fine Christians who are educating our future called-workers and absorbed by them. Or do our College professors mock public propriety, as well? Perhaps they had a good sophomoric laugh over this incident? Perhaps also over public drunkenness, and other forms of impropriety? We're all sinners (giggle giggle). We Christians never do the right thing (tee hee hee). For example, so-and-so did XYX (hahaha), and that was so bad (hohoho)."
Wow. Is this assuming the worst about the profs. On what basis do you make this charge?
I know many of the profs. at MLC. Many didn't even go to the Talent Show. Many have never even booted up YouTube, much less heard of Miley Cyrus. And to somehow infer that they are ultimately responsible for something the students did in the dorm on their own free time -- that's slanderous.
At first I thought this video was fairly immature yet mostly harmless. However, Mr. Jackson, now that I've compared it to your clearly blameless and omnibenevolent soul, it truly disgusts me. Thank you for opening my eyes.
P.S. How about this for comment anonymity?
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I know I'm not wrong since I am a student at MLC, but I do believe MLC stands for Martin Luther College, not Mary Lou College. Some "pious" man you are pointing out the "sins" of others when you yourself are breaking the 8th commandment by bearing false testimony against your neighbor by not taking their actions in the kindest possible way. You are also slandering a man's name by not correctly given him credit as the name holder of a respectable college in the United States. Instead you use your close-mindedness to slander a man's name, and also the reputation of the gentleman in the movie. Who are you to publicly hold false testimony against the gentleman in this movie? I also know that everyone in this video has or have a steady relationship with a member of the OPPOSITE sex. If this video is really the biggest problem we have facing us, then we are surely blessed. But the fact of the matter is that it is not. I do believe you are missing the plank in your own eye but not seeing how your comments and your promotion to negative comments are directly affecting how these young men are seen by people who do not know them personally. Just because you have a problem with the WELS does not give you the divine authority to judge a man's heart or a man's intentions. Perhaps we might construct our time in a better fashion than to read a blog that diminishes the reputations of young men and encourages judgement on others? Just a thought I suppose.
If you have ever seen a Will Ferrell movie where he takes his shirt off, you should go pray the Rosary and ask the Lord and Mary to forgive your sins of homosexuality. If you can not see that this is an obvious social commentary and spoof to be taken lightly then you should not carry the right to vote in the US. There was no more nudity here than one would find at a public pool. Yes, these are indeed potential future called worker, but should they be punished for making a video where they imitate female celebrities and lip-sync? No. Anyone who has a problem with this video due to its relation to MLC needs to take a step back and realize that the motive was not evil. For the people who say they wouldn't want these young men as their pastors, I question how well you know them personally and how you can be a judge of their faith or character because they dressed up for fun.
Thanks.
I've read every comment on this page and I have to say that many of them are highly insulting. I agree that the young men in the video were foolish for making this video and posting it. They committed a sin of offense and they should know better than that. They did not however, deliberately set out to hurt anyone.
Moreover, lumping every MLC student into the same category is ludicrous. Saying that "the academic focus is about as diverse as the House of Habsburg's DNA; the scholarly authenticity is a about as noble as a McDonald's Happy Meal." is insulting. MLC is a highly specialized school, yes, but because of that specialization, our focus is narrower and we learn more. Being an 'A' student isn't the easiest task in the world. We have to study and apply ourselves. We have some very tough classes.
Also, criticizing our Professors is below the belt. We have very knowledgeable, wise Professors. They dedicate a good portion of their lives to educating us in the best way that they can. Most of our professors go above and beyond what is expected of them. They are amazing men and women who work hard to help us transform from crazy, irresponsible kids into ministers of the gospel so that we can serve our future students and congregations as well as they have served us.
Lastly, we're college students. We can't study every moment of every day. We need a break every once in awhile. Any psychologist will confirm that having no 'play' time is bad for a person. All MLC students do not make foolish mistakes, but when we do so, we are only human. The law definitely should be used, but the law should be followed by the gospel. I am an MLC student who truly appreciates the education that she gets at MLC and who truly appreciates the lessons that she learns here. I am well educated, well prepared for my future ministry, and I will be a good teacher. Please think carefully before any of you discredit or slander MLC, our Professors, or the student body. The actions of a few do not dictate the actions of the whole.
I am a current MLC student, and in stereotypical WELS style, I feel the need to place my two mites(<--Bible reference) in the offering plate, if you will. I realize that you will most likely not be swayed by my opinion, but hey, that didn't stop any of you.
Let's do a little review here, the thought is that the students featured in the video are giving the wrong impression of the WELS school of ministry. They created a parody video of a popular youtube video. Alright, we all still on the same page? good.
None of these men are homosexual. I know for a fact that at least more than half of them are currently or have been romantically involved with women. Also, if there was ever a question about their sexual orientation, it would have been handled by now not only by faculty of MLC, but also by the students because we know just as well as anyone that homosexuality is sinful and we know that we are told in the Bible to show our brother his sin.
Like I said before, the video is a parody, like Saturday Night Live. Some of the actors on SNL will impersonate homosexuals by dressing a certain way or giving themselves a lisp. Do people question the sexual orientation of the comedians on that show or others like it? No. This is the same situation. They are a group of blatantly heterosexual men who acted out of character for the sake of humor. Senator(at that time) Barack Obama went on the Late Show with David Letterman and presented the top 10 things he would change if he became president. In typical late night humor style, they were jokes, not real campaign promises he was making. So, just as we look at Barack Obama making jokes about his campaign on late night TV, let's look at the CONTEXT of this video before we make judgments on it. Realize that all of this(both Obama and MLC students) is relative humor, it's only funny because you know what the actors are like on a every-day basis and when they act out of character, it is funny.
In addition, you have to know the culture of MLC, or the average college in general. I will go out on a limb and assume that most of the people commenting on this blog are not of college age. That being said, most of you do not know what is considered funny or "cool" at MLC currently, so let's look at the culture of MLC.
Like I said before, Homosexuality is in no way condoned at MLC by students or faculty. But homosexuality is joked about because it is not even close to a possibility. In the same way we brush off comments like "We're gonna kill them" said by athletes, MLC students think of someone calling them "gay" or a "fag" as something so impossible that it does not bother them. Just like we know that LeBron James is not going to go out on the court and murder someone, we know as friends and brothers and sisters in Christ that if we are at MLC, homosexuality is most likely not a problem for us. And we know that we are not giving offense to anyone because they are not homosexual.
Now, with those last two paragraphs already on the page, let's realize that it all goes back to what I said about relative humor. I can almost guarantee that those guys did not sit down with the intention of making fun of homosexuals or to "come out of the closet," but simply to provide the MLC student body with entertainment.
Alright, I'm almost done, but I wanted to let you in on some secrets... In talking with schoolmates the general consensus is "Why do all these people so uptight about this stuff?" Listen people, I don't know what you're trying to prove, but you aren't changing the humor at MLC. I will still walk into my room, see my roommate changing, and say something to the effect of "hey, sexy" to which he will probably respond, "shut up, queer." And then we will laugh and GO ON WITH OUR LIVES!! My next door neighbor will still walk with just short shorts and huge jersey on into a room of guys watching Monday Night Football and get a laugh. I'm not going to go to my basketball coach tonight and say "Coach, I don't feel comfortable playing physical defense or posting up because the guys might think I'm gay." Don't get me wrong, it's great that you care, but just let us deal with our own problems. I assure you that these guys are not gay, and that they did what they did purely for humor that was based on MLC's culture.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go snuggle with my girlfriend... and don't worry, I checked, she's definitely a girl.
anon October 27, 2009 6:15 PM:
do you dig guys...secretly?
Matthew 7:3 everyone.
My name is Casie and i'm 19 and I don't go to MLC. Some of my friends do though...
I am WELS...and this entire thing made me laugh. it's all so typically WELS. the crazy kids' antics, the adults' overreaction to prove a point, the kids' friends' counter reaction...and what has been solved? nothing. i'm sure the blog's author doesn't give a crap what his opposition has said, and i'm sure that the kids will NEVER understand why he thinks it's such a big deal (i know i don't get it).
i think you should all stop throwing the Bible at each other (obviously you can find the passage you need to refute the other guy-we get it) and just act like the logical, intelligent Christians you are. or should be. whichever you prefer.
by the way...if you can't attach your name to a comment that you make here, you're not helping, because anonymity breeds hostility in the blogosphere and hostility is what we DON'T want in this conversation.
also, as an afterthought, a question for mr. blog man: what did you think would happen when you posted this? and how do you think the publicity is affecting the guys in the vid? lol, i'm sure they're not all lamenting the fact...they probably think this whole thing is funny too. just sayin'
hope every has a great night! :)
OK, let's try this again...
Let's all agree that the young men in this video all are wonderful. They are upstanding, great students with very strong, heterosexual relationships. They are going to make wonderful pastors and/or teachers someday.
Additionally, let's all agree that we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. We all are sinners in need of God's grace and forgiveness found only in the suffering and death of Jesus.
Now that those things are covered, let's get back to the reason why this video is a bad thing.
I get that some people find it funny and some don't. Fine. Everyone has his own sense of humour. The real issue is, as I continue to flog the dead horse, the terrible lack of judgment of these men.
You can debate whether or not they even should have made this video. Personally, I never would have done something like this, even when I was a young college lad. But the fact of the matter is that, as an MLC student, you are more than just a "college student."
An MLC student is preparing to be a pastor or a teacher. As such, these young men should hold themselves to a higher standard.
Each one of them should have considered that this video just might put their college and, by extension, their synod in a bad light. They should have considered how this video might be seen by others, particularly when it was placed on YouTube for the entire world to see.
For me, the real issue is that these young men, who appear to be the "cream of the crop" at MLC displayed such a shocking lack of judgment. That is concerning, indeed.
I think my regular yearly offering to MLC will be discontinued, at least for this year.
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