Fresh Blast of Flatulence from the SpenerQuest Skunk-Patch. Rolf Commends Their Apostasy and Obstinancy

Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4421 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2014 - 10:18 pm:       A lengthy September 24 - December14 LQ thread, "ELDoNA Rejects Objective Justification," discussed ELDoNA's Theses on Justification, which rejects Objective Justification. The Association of Confessional Lutheran Churches has posted on its website its February 9, 2014, 50-page report, "Critique of the Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America’s Theses on Justification." Here's the Abstract: The critique points out logical fallacies thesis by thesis. In general, the conclusions of the theses are built on three fallacies: Straw Man, Equivocation, and Exclusion. The critique is thorough, but not exhaustive due to the quantity of error and volume of material.
Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 446 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Monday, February 10, 2014 - 1:55 pm:       This confessional document published by the ACLC takes the bold step of declaring fellowship sundered with the heterodox ELDoNA. Of course, it was ELDoNA itself which sundered fellowship with all orthodox Lutheran fellowships by declaring that its Justification theses delimited its doctrinal fellowship. I thank Rick Strickert for posting a link to this fine critique. We need to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints against the gainsayers (deniers).
Rev. Guillaume Williams (Revhardheaded) Senior Member Username: Revhardheaded Post Number: 4875 Registered: 10-2004	Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 - 10:34 am:       I wish the ELDoNA quotes were better formatted. Other than that, so far, a good defense. The Rev. Guillaume J. S. Williams, Sr God justifies the ungodly. Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Pastor Rolf David Preus (Rolf) Senior Member Username: Rolf Post Number: 7286 Registered: 5-2001

Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 1:25 pm:       The pastors of the ACLC have made a good confession. I commend them for their patience and theological integrity. While it appears that the ELDoNA, at the moment anyway, is not listening, the ACLC is doing a service to the church by publicly addressing this vital issue in accordance with the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions. I thank God for the faithful witness of these men! Pastor Rolf David Preus

Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 447 Registered: 1-2002

Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 5:47 pm:       The way in which The Critique takes on the beheading of the Gospel known as "Theses on Justification"--it was promulgated on the Festival of the Beheading of John the Baptist--is to expose the logical fallacies that are committed by ELDoNA and its friend Greg Jackson of "No Glory to God." Jackson constantly accuses orthodox theologians (sic) of committing logical and grammatical errors. Well, he and his followers commit both logical and grammatical errors generally, and in particular in their new theses. The most damning aspect of the ELDoNA Theses is their lack of BOTH Scriptural and Confessional grounding. At least The Brief Statement, This We Belive, and The Critique base their confession on Scripture. For any Lutheran Christian to make a confession to the world that is not soundly based on the Holy Scriptures and witnessed to by the Lutheran Confessions is unthinkable, but that is what ELDoNA has shamelessly done. They have separated themselves from the fellowship of orthodox, confessional Lutheranism to the point that they dishonor the "Fathers" that they claim to follow religiously. Their theses on Justification should go down in history with the disrepute of The Altered Augsburg Confession, The Definite Synodical Platform, the Leuenberg Concord, the concordats of the ELCA with the Reformed, and the JDDJ of the Lutheran World Federation. It is an utter disgrace to Luther and all his true spiritual heirs.

David Breitenfeld (Dbreitenfeld) Advanced Member Username: Dbreitenfeld Post Number: 822 Registered: 10-2004

Posted on Wednesday, February 12, 2014 - 8:06 pm:       With the rejection of Justification of Christ's work on our behalf by faith, do other synod's say they are still Christian? Or are they just not sure?

Jim Denger (Jim_denger) Junior Member Username: Jim_denger Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2013

Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2014 - 12:28 am:       Dear David, What? Sincerely, Jim

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GJ - Williams reads an entire chapter on justification by faith - Romans 4 - and finds UOJ.

Hey - how did Rolf sneak back into the Missouri Synod again? How many synods is that for him now?

They Allowed One Guy To Stay Around - For Now

Four-way dialogue deepens

By Marites N. Sison | January 8, 2014 6 Comments |

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(L to R, from back): Archbishop Fred Hiltz, US Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, ELCA Bishop Elizabeth Eaton and ELCIC Bishop Susan Johnson. Photo: Bruce Myers/Anglican Church of Canada

[Anglican Journal] The heads of the Anglican Church of Canada, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada (ELCIC), the Episcopal Church and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) have agreed to co-ordinate their responses to “events that transcend” their borders, such as natural disasters.

They could, for instance, issue a joint pastoral letter in response to a natural calamity and invite their members to contribute to relief and recovery efforts through one of their four relief agencies, said Archdeacon Bruce Myers, the Anglican Church of Canada General Synod’s coordinator for ecumenical and interfaith relations. Myers served as staff support at the meeting.

Leaders of the four churches reached this agreement when they met for a day and a half of informal talks last December in Winnipeg. Since 2010, the heads of these four churches have met for informal talks, “becoming colloquially known as the ‘Four-Way,’ ” said Myers.

The Anglican Church of Canada’s primate, Archbishop Fred Hiltz, ELCIC Bishop Susan Johnson and Episcopal Church Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori were joined in the meeting by the new presiding bishop of the ELCA, Elizabeth Eaton.

“Broadly speaking, these informal conversations are aimed at exploring ways to extend the implications of our Anglican-Lutheran full communion partnerships across the international boundary,” said Myers. “What more could we be doing as North American churches in full communion?” The Anglican Church of Canada and the ELCIC have been in full communion since 2011, as have the ELCA and the Episcopal Church.

The leaders also agreed to explore ways of addressing the Doctrine of Discovery

“as a step towards reconciliation with indigenous people in North America,” said Myers. The Anglican Church of Canada and the Episcopal Church have both repudiated the Doctrine of Discovery.

The Anglican church, however, “has only begun to try to give tangible expression to that renunciation,” said Myers. When it renounced the Doctrine of Discovery at the 2010 General Synod, the church pledged a review of its policies and programs to expose the doctrine’s historical impact and end its continuing effects on indigenous peoples. The Doctrine of Discovery was a principle of charters and acts developed by colonizing Western societies more than 500 years ago.

[The Episcopal Church renounced the doctrine at its 2009 meeting of General Convention.]

At the meeting, Hiltz also informed the other bishops about his church’s recent decision to designate the seventh Sunday of Easter as Jerusalem Sunday. In response, the other three churches “pledged to explore the possibility of making it a common observance,” said Myers.

Each leader also agreed to prepare a devotional piece for different Sundays in Advent, to be made available for individual or congregational use in their churches during the 2014 Advent season.

They also agreed to look at what they might be able to say collectively in response to an ecumenical convergence text on ecclesiology called The Church: Towards a Common Vision. The document was issued March 2013 by the Faith and Order Commission of the World Council of Churches (WCC). Described by Myers as “groundbreaking,” the text addresses what churches might say together in areas such as peace and justice in the world, and how they might grow in communion and overcome past and present divisions. Theologians “from the widest range of Christian traditions and cultures” produced the text for the WCC.

Sad - An Odd Parallel to the LCMS Seminary Fraud

How is this different from the LCMS lying for years that they had a shortage of 600 pastors from the Seminex crisis?

The LCMS gets young and old men to spend $100,000 for a degree that does not necessarily lead to a call. If the man actually gets a call, there is a good chance he will be ousted by the District Pope. There is a good chance he will even be kicked out after his vicarage year, with no chance to finish or return. It is just like the phony college head running away with the money. "So long, sucker."

All Lutheran seminaries are completely on their own. The Synodical Baby Boomers spend "mission dollars" on their own fat salaries and let the seminary students bankroll the underworked and overpaid seminary professors through student loans.

ELCA knows the writing is on the wall - they are closing seminaries right and left.

When I published the precisely researched figures on the LCMS seminary scams, DP Benke asked on the ALPB Online Forum, "Are those figures real?"

The hero of the Leftist Church Missouri Synod has no clue about seminary costs today.

WELS and Ukraine - $15 Million Plus for 900 Members?

According to John Shep, Thoughts of Faith, ELS, and now ELCA,
Marvin Schwan spent $15 million+ to provide a neat way
for WELS/ELS clergy to have free vacations around Europe and Russia.

At its Jan. 12-13 meeting, the WELS Board for World Missions (BWM) agreed to assume oversight of the Ukrainian Lutheran Church (ULC), a 900-member church body started in the 1990s.

The Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS) had been the primary mission partner of this Ukrainian church body, but by mutual agreement between the three church bodies, WELS through its Board for World Missions will now assume that role. The ELS will continue to maintain its Gift of Life program, which provides humanitarian aid and pro-life counseling in Ukraine.

Gifts from foundations, grants, and individuals will provide the dollars to help support the work of this church, with minimal funding needed from Congregation Mission Offerings. WELS will not send any permanent missionaries to Ukraine but will provide training, workshops, and counsel to the ULC in areas such as stewardship, leadership, and discipleship. Rev. Larry Schlomer, BWM administrator, says the goal—as it is with all world missions fields—is to help the Ukraine become self-supporting and self-administrating and able to stand on its own.

“By bringing them under the BWM, we’re able to use the expertise and experience that we’ve gained in working with many churches through the growing pangs of becoming their own independent church body,” says Schlomer.

Besides being able to financially support its ministry, Rev. Dr. Vyacheslav Horpynchuk, bishop of the ULC, says this also means the church has to grow in its ministry practices, including outreach, laypeople involvement, and continued education of its pastors. “This is what we need to do, and this is why we are so thankful to the WELS that they came and helped us—providing not only financial help but also providing guidance and wisdom,” says Horpynchuk. “This is what we need.”


Horpynchuk is grateful for the support and this new relationship, especially at this time of political unrest and violence in Ukraine. The ULC’s headquarters are in Kiev where much of the protests are taking place, and Horpynchuk says attendance has been low in the downtown congregation he serves because people are afraid. “It moves us to pray more and to be more dedicated to the Lord,” he says. “People in the church are becoming more compassionate and more caring of each other.”


He continues, “Sometimes you feel isolated. You feel threatened. Brotherly care and encouragement is extremely important. We know that the Lord never fails. We know that the Lord never leaves us alone. We know that his people never leave their brothers and sisters. And this is what we see now is taking place with WELS, and we are thankful to the Lord for your love and your care.”


The Ukrainian Lutheran Church consists of 907 baptized members in 22 congregations served by 21 pastors and two vicars. It is part of the Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference, a group of 24 member churches (including WELS) that provides a forum for confessional Lutherans around the world.

Learn more at www.wels.net/missions.