Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Money for Kelm, Not To Finish Degrees":
Hi Jim Becker WELS,
I'll tell you exactly why the WELS is getting into pre-school. Ever hear of state-funded 4-year-old Kindergarten and state-fund childcare? Here's how it works. The state pays for 4th grade Kindergarten in many place regardless of parental income, and they allow for an optional devotional time that parents can opt their children out of.
In addition, there's a pool of children/parents that qualify for childcare/pre-school based on low income.
Similarly, but for older students, the WELS has several school-choice "charter" schools such as Jeske's St. Marcus school, in the vicinity of failing public schools.
The thing to watch out for is whether the state pays enough, because otherwise these schools can become a drain on church resources if the church or some religious foundation(s) have to kick in a thousand dollars per student, as is the case in Milwaukee WELS school choice schools. That's what's occurring in Jeskeland.
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California Lutheran Orphan has left a new comment on your post "Government Subsidies for WELS Schools":
So what else is new? Government money for WELS schools was a big issue way back in the 70's when when WELS' lay members' protests resulted in expulsions in Milwaukee area, and one of several reasons for termination of this California Lutheran Orphan who agreed with the protesters who were labeled the "Milwaukee Nine". WELS statment of doctrine at the time stated."We reject any attempt on the part of the Church to seek the financial assistance of the state in carrying out its saving purpose". (THIS WE BELIEVE pg.23) When it was pointed out that it was understood that WELS schools existed for the church's saving purpose, government grants were defended with WELS leaders saying that the school didn't "seek" the government grants, they were "offered" to them. The more things change the more they stay the same.
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GJ - The same thing happened with insurance money and joint meetings with ELCA and Missouri (Snowbird). WELS engaged in one religious activity after another with the other four-letter synods because the money was thrown at them. If they did not spend it, someone else would. Didn't want all that loot going to those nasty, unionistic liberals! QED - all AAL-LB-Thrivent programs were good, wholesome, and anointed by the Holy Spirit.
My favorite of all the lies told was the denial of working with ELCA on the Joy radio show. When ELCA put out their news release on the first joint project with Missouri and WELS, the Wisconsin Synod said ELCA was lying. (Sound familiar? It does to me.) So I followed Matthew 18 and phoned the ELCA person named. He was shocked because "Barber was at all the meetings." The ELCA official asked, "Do you believe me?"
Mischke sent a letter saying it was not true but that WELS was called in as consultants. Does that sound like GA, alumni of the Sausage Factory? It was not true but it was true in the way they said it was true, in a limited, ambiguous but purely innocent way.
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Jim Becker WELS has left a new comment on your post "Government Subsidies for WELS Schools":
When I posted concerning my comments to WELS President Mark Schroeder a month ago admonishing the Synod in advance for sanctioning the behavior of Pastors Glende and Skorzewski (see Ichabod "Write a Letter") ,I indicated that Schroeder's comments regarding WELS involvement with Thrivent were also forthcoming. Considering the subjects under discussion here, I felt his remarks to be timely now.
Given ongoing fellowship issues with Thrivent's close ELCA ties and new information brought to light on this blog (e.g. matching funds for Thrivent employees to Planned Parenthood and favorable mention of Thrivent as a gay-friendly employer by a Minnesota LGBT publication), I further admonished Synod for its continued violation of our unit fellowship doctrine by continued involvement with Thrivent Financial. Schroeder's reply was thoughtful and empathetic. He shared nearly all of the moral concerns I listed and gave me the impression that if he thought our Synod was directly involved with Thrivent he would have some real misgivings.
"I agree completely that the Thrivent organization has adopted policies and principles which are clearly not in keeping with biblical teaching...we do not regard Thrivent as a church or church-related organization. We regard it purely as a business and as a financial services organization that, according to its own business model, serves primarily Lutheran clients. Unfortunately, even though Thrivent would not claim to be a church or to engage in work normally done by the church, it often acts and speaks in a way that gives the opposite impression...Thrivent's social views are also areas in which we have no common ground.
"Having said that, I must also say that WELS has absolutely no direct involvement or relationship with Thrivent. We are not represented on their board of directors. We do not consult with them on their business or charitable efforts, nor do they provide any input or advice on our synod's mission efforts. The only connection we have with Thrivent is the annual block grant Thrivent donates to WELS...Thrivent does, of course, have more direct dealings with individual congregations through their local chapters or whatever they call them today. In those cases, it is my prayer that pastors and congregations are being careful to keep the relationship as a purely business relationship, not one in which the line between the role of the church and the role of Thrivent becomes blurred."
Pastor Schroeder went on to say that he would forward my concerns, which he said deserved to be taken seriously, to the Conference of Presidents, and asked for prayer on behalf of those who deal with these issues at the synodical level.
He added that Synod has admonished Thrivent for its involvement in Habitat for Humanity. I also notice just this week that Thrivent is matching funds ($1 for every $2 donated, up to a million) for members of the WELS Committee on Relief working with the Haitian situation.
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GJ - Has anyone admonished Mark and Avoid Jeske for his involvement in Habitat for Humanity? He is far more a member of WELS than Thrivent is.
The basic problem is depending on outside sources to support the church: foundations with their agendas, Thrivent, Schwan, and the govmint. The Golden Rule prevails - "Whoever has the gold makes up the rules."
The Jackson Corollary is - "Having extra loot from the outside impoverishes the church while prostituting it." For obvious reasons, my corollary has never caught on among church bureaucrats.
Thrivent takes WELS-ELS-LCMS money
and makes massive grants to
Jimmie Carter's favorite charity - HFH.
Rent-a-Rev Jeske does the dedication ceremony.
Left-click the picture to see the details.
Left-click the picture to see the details.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Government Subsidies for WELS Schools":
Good news! It appears that not all schools are hurting for money after all. In the February edition of Forward In Christ A Lutheran Voice, there is an ad in the bulletin board section:
"Business professors-The business department of Wisconsin Lutheran College, Milwaukee, Wis., is seeking names of people qualified to teach in the areas of accounting, finance, and investments,marketing, and management. Potential positions are full and part time and require at least a master's degree."
Now that Kelm is no longer with Parish Services, he has time to teach marketing and serve as chaplain. Hey, I bet Kelm has some "friends" that know a little bit about finance and investments.
In Christ,
from WELs church lady
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GJ - The ex-SP is a whiz at finance. He knows how to find designated funds to float the shortage, how to find someone to take the blame, and how to have a pleasant vacation afterwards, with pay. They need him for an MBS program at WLC.
19 comments:
Always chasing the almighty buck! Can't they do anything without another fist full of dollars?
Our WELS school did not go into the state 4 year old program based on our philosophy of Christian Ed. Ethically, I could not justify what they were telling us we had to do. Hopefully, other WELS schools also stand up and say no!
WOW!! I am VERY familiar with state-run child care because my Mom was an administrator of those kind of programs in one of the school districts in Calif. It's big business out there-she was well-compensated. But I never thought those programs had anything to do with sectarian schools. Any Synod with the financial integrity of WELS would NEVER do something like that just for the money, would they?
Just what is Jeske and the other WELS choice schools doing with all that money? Teaching unchurched children about Jesus, baptizing them and their families. How dare they!
Anonymous 8:33 PM,
That's a pretty expensive way to teach others about Christ!
I never read in the NT that God expects believers to bribe unbelievers with money and services just to teach them the bible for a few minutes per week. However, that DOES fit in the Church Growth Reformed philosophy where the Gospel is thought to be not sufficient by itself to convert and save, and you must add something to make it attractive.
So what else is new? Government money for WELS schools was a big issue way back in the 70's when when WELS' lay members' protests resulted in expulsions in Milwaukee area, and one of several reasons for termination of this California Lutheran Orphan who agreed with the protesters who were labeled the "Milwaukee Nine". WELS statment of doctrine at the time stated."We reject any attempt on the part of the Church to seek the financial assistance of the state in carrying out its saving purpose". (THIS WE BELIEVE pg.23) When it was pointed out that it was understood that WELS schools existed for the church's saving purpose,
government grants were defended
with WELS leader saying that the school didn't "seek" the government grants, they were "offered" to them. The more things change the more they stay the same.
Anonymous 9:13 PM,
Maybe you ought to visit a WELS choice classroom before you give the impression that you know what you're talking about.
Mischke sent a letter saying it was not true but that WELS was called in as consultants. Does that sound like GA, alumni of the Sausage Factory? It was not true but it was true in the way they said it was true, in a limited, ambiguous but purely innocent way.
So, what are you going to believe? The facts or what WELS tells you to believe? You must go along with what WELS says to be a good member.
Talking about taking money from Thrivent and its forbears (as was noted in other posts on this blog), now Thrivent is going to a checklist system similar to United Way's. Not only is the Boys Scout troops (affiliated with LCMS congregations) off the list, but reportedly synodical schools and local churches will not be listed. In other words, only liberal-approved causes are on the list. Just how liberal? One of the Thrivent board members is a lesbian. Notice how they get all the conservative on board, and then they tilt the program liberal, depowering and defunding conservative groups.
This is Anonymous 10:01 PM. Hey, Anonymous 9:13 PM, if you know whereof I erred, spell it out. Otherwise, your just like Caiaphas' guard slapping defendants around for no good reason.
When I posted concerning my comments to WELS President Mark Schroeder a month ago admonishing the Synod in advance for sanctioning the behavior of Pastors Glende and Skorzewski (see Ichabod "Write a Letter") ,I indicated that Schroeder's comments regarding WELS involvement with Thrivent were also forthcoming. Considering the subjects under discussion here, I felt his remarks to be timely now.
Given ongoing fellowship issues with Thrivent's close ELCA ties and new information brought to light on this blog (e.g. matching funds for Thrivent employees to Planned Parenthood and favorable mention of Thrivent as a gay-friendly employer by a Minnesota LGBT publication), I further admonished Synod for its continued violation of our unit fellowship doctrine by continued involvement with Thrivent Financial. Schroeder's reply was thoughtful and empathetic. He shared nearly all of the moral concerns I listed and gave me the impression that if he thought our Synod was directly involved with Thrivent he would have some real misgivings.
"I agree completely that the Thrivent organization has adopted policies and principles which are clearly not in keeping with biblical teaching...we do not regard Thrivent as a church or church-related organization. We regard it purely as a business and as a financial services organization that, according to its own business model, serves primarily Lutheran clients. Unfortunately, even though Thrivent would not claim to be a church or to engage in work normally done by the church, it often acts and speaks in a way that gives the opposite impression...Thrivent's social views are also areas in which we have no common ground.
"Having said that, I must also say that WELS has absolutely no direct involvement or relationship with Thrivent. We are not represented on their board of directors. We do not consult with them on their business or charitable efforts, nor do they provide any input or advice on our synod's mission efforts. The only connection we have with Thrivent is the annual block grant Thrivent donates to WELS...Thrivent does, of course, have more direct dealings with individual congregations through their local chapters or whatever they call them today. In those cases, it is my prayer that pastors and congregations are being careful to keep the relationship as a purely business relationship, not one in which the line between the role of the church and the role of Thrivent becomes blurred."
Pastor Schroeder went on to say that he would forward my concerns, which he said deserved to be taken seriously, to the Conference of Presidents, and asked for prayer on behalf of those who deal with these issues at the synodical level.
He added that Synod has admonished Thrivent for its involvement in Habitat for Humanity. I also notice just this week that Thrivent is matching funds ($1 for every $2 donated, up to a million) for members of the WELS Committee on Relief working with the Haitian situation.
The basic problem is depending on outside sources to support the church: foundations with their agendas, Thrivent, Schwan, and the govmint. The Golden Rule prevails - "Whoever has the gold makes up the rules."
Religions and churches make rules, too. While churches offer their doctrine, beliefs, and sometimes the pure Word, they demand attendance, conformance, subscription, etc. to what they profess and do. They make the rules for better or worse. That makes them subject to the failings of the human condition, for example, false teachings, faulty doctrine, and their personal interests.
Stay ever vigilant for traps and pitfalls. That holds true for WELS, too.
When I read that church attendance is down in the United States, and that denominations are shrinking, and the seminaries are laying off professors due to lack of students and funds, and then I read that religious foundations and churches are funding charter schools, spending one, two or three thousand dollars on non-believers' kids above and beyond what the state pays, it boggles the mind.
First, if those churches had been sending their money to synodical schools to keep the cost of tuition low all along, they would never even thought of blowing a lot of money on unbelievers for the privilege of having devotions with them, devotions they can opt out of. As it is, the WELS is way in debt, tuition is high at both WELS and LCMS schools, and the mission of the Church is underfunded and is being cut back, and Lutheranism is shrinking everywhere except Africa.
Second, when Christ returns, do you think he'll fault the Church for not making whole where the state failed its citizens--a state that is fully able to pay but doesn't? No, he'll fault the Church for blowing money on unbelievers at the expense of its own institutions and the pure Gospel proclamation. If any money is going to be spent, why not pay a lawyer to sue the state so these students can be properly educated on the state's dime? Also, there are Christians who are citizens of states in need of healthcare where the states truly cannot afford to pay. Why not help them out?
Third, if the state doesn't want to pay to educate its own citizens properly, that's its responsibility, and not to the Church's blame. As Christ said, let the (spiritually) dead bury their own dead, and as Paul said, help believers out first.
When the church is hurting financially is not the time to blow a lot of money on unbelievers who are entitled to a decent education paid by the state. Doing so just brings more woe on the Church.
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Gal 06:10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Luk 09:59 He said to another man, "Follow me." But the man replied, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father." 60 Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God."
Good news! It appears that not all schools are hurting for money after all. In the February edition of Forward In Christ A Lutheran Voice, there is an ad in the bulletin board section:
"Business professors-The business department of Wisconsin Lutheran College, Milwaukee, Wis., is seeking names of people qualified to teach in the areas of accounting, finance, and investments,marketing, and management. Potential positions are full and part time and require at least a master's degree."
Now that Kelm is no longer with Parish Services, he has time to teach marketing and serve as chaplain. Hey, I bet Kelm has some "friends" that know a little bit about finance and investments.
In Christ,
from WELs church lady
GJ - The ex-SP is a whiz at finance. He knows how to find designated funds to float the shortage, how to find someone to take the blame, and how to have a pleasant vacation afterwards, with pay. They need him for an MBS program at WLC.
The ex-SP is too unethical for me.
He added that Synod has admonished Thrivent for its involvement in Habitat for Humanity.
Pastor Schroeder should start by cleaning up WELS before admonishing others.
Someone might want to actually check references made in some of these blogs as the one made about funding in THIS WE BELIEVE is incorrect. If you turn to page 23 in the 2006 or 2008 editions pg 23 talks about the inspiration of Scripture.
All aboard! Jeske will now take you for a ride.
Concerning THIS WE BELIEVE.
My edition was published 1980,and states on page 23, (under VIII. THE CHURCH AND THE STATE) :
"7. We reject any attempt on the part of the church to seek financial assistance of the state in carrying out its saving purpose."
8. We reject any views that hold that a citizen is free to disobey such laws of the state with which he disagrees on the basis of personal judgement."
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The verbal inspiraton of Scripture is spoke of on top of page 5, under #6. (I. GOD & HIS REVELATION0.
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The last section is IX. JESUS' RETURN AND THE JUDGEMENT; on bottom part of page 23, plus page 24.
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